List Mgmt. Draft Watch 2015

[Vader]

I see from the point of view, that for the last 2 years or so we been complaining that we have riches of inside midfield talent when in retrospect we really don't have, what we had was depth inside middies who aren't good enough to be top 22! Otherwise if we had been so spoilt for choice it wouldn't be such a pressing issue after losing Patty and Thommo to follow!

Exactly. What we had was quantity, not quality. Losing Dangerfield & Thompson in quick succession will all but eliminate our quality inside ball-winners.

It is quite possible that in 2017 we will have neither quantity nor quality, which is why a gun inside midfielder is a high priority in this year's draft.

 

[azza77]

Ah Chee has said he would like to be in the same town as his brother and playing for us would be an ideal scenario!

Surprised there hasn't been more talk of him around here. Obviously he's probably the least of our needs, but if we are basing our decision on talent, then he's up there with some of the best.

Eddie is what 29 now. Bring in Ah Chee at 13 and give him a few years under Eddie guidance to really develop into a class player. If Menzel's body holds up I see him pushing into the midfield a lot anyway.

Great on both sides, rarely fumbles, "unselfish" as he calls himself, brilliant overhead for someone his size and super quick, especially over that 20m. Theres a lot to like there and I won't be disappointed if we do take him. It will just be a few years before we will begin to see what he has to offer our team.

 

[Captain Furious]

Exactly. What we had was quantity, not quality. Losing Dangerfield & Thompson in quick succession will all but eliminate our quality inside ball-winners.

It is quite possible that in 2017 we will have neither quantity nor quality, which is why a gun inside midfielder is a high priority in this year's draft.

Even discounting Thompson and B.Crouch, we have Sloane, Douglas, M.Crouch, CEY, Lyons, Grigg. That's a pretty high percentage of our list as inside mids. Now you may not rate some of those but the club had given them contracts, so they expect them to play.

You don't draft in case all your players turn out to be rubbish.

 

[Untouchables22]

I love them and I attend the games like the ever loyal fan that I am. Win/Lose/Rain/Sun/Snow/Sleet.

With that in mind...I assure you that I stand by my post above and let us all hope and pray no one from the Adelaide Footy Club decision making staff ever comes in contact with anyone that has had anything to do with Browns selections in the last 30 years.

More Brady Quinn.

 

[Team DJ]

Surprised there hasn't been more talk of him around here. Obviously he's probably the least of our needs, but if we are basing our decision on talent, then he's up there with some of the best.

Eddie is what 29 now. Bring in Ah Chee at 13 and give him a few years under Eddie guidance to really develop into a class player. If Menzel's body holds up I see him pushing into the midfield a lot anyway.

Great on both sides, rarely fumbles, "unselfish" as he calls himself, brilliant overhead for someone his size and super quick, especially over that 20m. Theres a lot to like there and I won't be disappointed if we do take him. It will just be a few years before we will begin to see what he has to offer our team.

Reckon our issue at 13 is that Richmond and Carlton pick ahead of that pick. Both could use a crafty small

 

[Danger in Texas]

Reckon our issue at 13 is that Richmond and Carlton pick ahead of that pick. Both could use a crafty small

Carlton need to rebuild from the bare bones - mids and KPP's. They don't need smalls yet.

Richmond could, but recently they've gone quite safe with their picks. Wouldn't surprise me if they pick a Gresham-type.

 

[Vader]

Even discounting Thompson and B.Crouch, we have Sloane, Douglas, M.Crouch, CEY, Lyons, Grigg. That's a pretty high percentage of our list as inside mids. Now you may not rate some of those but the club had given them contracts, so they expect them to play.

You don't draft in case all your players turn out to be rubbish.

Grigg will be gone at the end of 2016. Matt Crouch, CEY and Lyons are quantity not quality. Sloane is more outside than inside. Douglas is a good mix of both, but is not primarily an inside ball winner.

The problem is that the inside mids we're losing are our best inside players. While we currently have a number of replacements, none of them are remotely close to the quality of players we're losing. Quantity does not make up for quality, and we may not have that much quantity in 2017 if things don't change very shortly anyway.

 

[Deaneus!]

Port Adelaide: Luke Partington, Aaron Francis, Tim Sullivan

Yup, just in case he slides to pick 54 or whatever

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Grigg will be gone at the end of 2016. Matt Crouch, CEY and Lyons are quantity not quality. Sloane is more outside than inside. Douglas is a good mix of both, but is not primarily an inside ball winner.

The problem is that the inside mids we're losing are our best inside players. While we currently have a number of replacements, none of them are remotely close to the quality of players we're losing. Quantity does not make up for quality, and we may not have that much quantity in 2017 if things don't change very shortly anyway.

did anyone see tex give it to grigg in that doco chosen few 2 about the AFL captains? grigg did not handle it well and tex wasn't happy

was a ripping doco

ps vader - Sloane is only outside because we had a dearth of outside and he can follow structures and instructions ...his natural position is inside
I'm not worried about our inside mids, still think we have 0 proven outside mids on our list but hopefully combo of smith, atkins, seedsman, hampton and possibly milera or ah chee can step up

inside mids - B Crouch
- M Crouch
- Sloane
- Thompson
- CEY
- Lyons

outside mids - Smith
Atkins
Seedsman
Hampton .............(all other than Atkins more comfortable off half back)
Grigg

hybrid mids/ forwards - douglas , knight

even disregarding thommo as he won't be around long the inside mid quality much outweighs the outside mid quality comfortably

 

[rezagun]

Grigg will be gone at the end of 2016. Matt Crouch, CEY and Lyons are quantity not quality. Sloane is more outside than inside. Douglas is a good mix of both, but is not primarily an inside ball winner.

The problem is that the inside mids we're losing are our best inside players. While we currently have a number of replacements, none of them are remotely close to the quality of players we're losing. Quantity does not make up for quality, and we may not have that much quantity in 2017 if things don't change very shortly anyway.

Matt crouch not quality

 

[lunacy]

I can't believe that people are still high on Burton given how bad his knee injury has been and how it even limits him now (e.g. didn't do the beep test because of running on a had surface). Not to mention that he has not played football in almost 2 years and had no contact training. No one knows how the knee will pull up after a game of football. It's a massive risk to take with pick 13 in the draft for a team that has not had a 1st and 2nd round picks for two years running (yes I know M. Crouch was a second rounder but we long Bernie Vince to get that pick....again a net loss).

Burton's knee will give him issues throughout his career. It might impact his ability to reach his potential as it did with Hentschel but even if he ends up playing AFL football, his longevity in the game will not be great. That knee will see his career cut short.

For someone like Hawthorn or Freo it's a risk worth taking. For us, I don't think it is. Pick up two healthy kids with some upside and develop them into very good players. If Burton goes on to becomes a superstar at another club, I can live with that because the reasoning for not taking him from our part are very reasonable and sound.

There's also risks with other players.
Harry McKay would be selected on potential but could flop.
Burton's talent is at least proven (as much as it can at that level).
Other players have the go home potential, therefore risk.
Oliver (while I like him) is slightly unproven against men or the best of the best.
Curnow & Weiderman (whilst unlikely to be available at our pick) have little exposed form due to injuries.
Tucker has question marks because his season was worst than last year. Will he improve again in professional environment? Or will he continue his downward curve?
Francis is probably the only one without real question marks at our picks (if he makes it).

Bottom line is they all have risk and if Burton gets the thumbs up I'd be all over him.
No go home factor or queries over talent.

 

[Vader]

Matt crouch not quality

Gets a lot of the ball, but carries his own jerry can of petrol and book of matches with him at all times. Worst arsonist I've seen in a long time.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Matt crouch not quality

IF M Crouch ever does a full pre season he will be one of the surprise packets of the AFL and a potential best and fairest winner one day

 

[Captain Furious]

Grigg will be gone at the end of 2016. Matt Crouch, CEY and Lyons are quantity not quality. Sloane is more outside than inside. Douglas is a good mix of both, but is not primarily an inside ball winner.

The problem is that the inside mids we're losing are our best inside players. While we currently have a number of replacements, none of them are remotely close to the quality of players we're losing. Quantity does not make up for quality, and we may not have that much quantity in 2017 if things don't change very shortly anyway.

This is where you're missing the point. Your opinion of these players clearly differs to the club's opinions (and mine but that's not so important). They've given them contracts, these guys are between 20 and 23, they should be given more opportunities this year and they are expected to perform. I expect some of them will.

 

[Vader]

This is where you're missing the point. Your opinion of these players clearly differs to the club's opinions (and mine but that's not so important). They've given them contracts, these guys are between 20 and 23, they should be given more opportunities this year and they are expected to perform. I expect some of them will.

Giving them contracts doesn't mean that the club thinks they'll miraculously turn into quality footballers, given the lack of quality they've shown in the past.

In some cases, it just means that they survived the cut this year. That's the case for Grigg, who clearly has a "dead man walking" contract and won't be around in 2017. If anything, I think they now regret giving him that contract as it meant that they weren't able to upgrade RO'B at this year's draft.

In the case of Lyons and CEY, I think the club recognises that they have a deficit in this area and they're not willing to let these players go until that deficit has been addressed. We do need some inside mids, even if they're dead-set average. These players will remain as long as it takes for the club to recruit their replacements, in much the same way as Petrenko remained until he was replaced by Betts & Cameron.

I expect that they will be given more opportunities. That has to happen, almost by definition. Dangerfield is gone and Brad Crouch can't be relied on to walk from the race to the centre of the ground without getting injured. Thompson had a good run with injuries in 2015, but I wouldn't bet on a repetition in 2016. The opportunities will be there.. but that's not what's holding these players (Lyons, CEY, Matt Crouch) back.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Gets a lot of the ball, but carries his own jerry can of petrol and book of matches with him at all times. Worst arsonist I've seen in a long time.

Not sure what you are aiming at here. If it's for his lack of tank, then draftees generally start getting an AFL tank after their 3rd AFL pre-season. Matt Crouch will have his 3rd AFL pre-season (hopefully uninterrupted). The improvement in his fitness from his rookie to his 2nd year was noticeable. No reason why that trend all of a sudden will stop.

If you are referring to his disposal efficiency, then you might want to have a look at these numbers from season 2015

Matt Crouch - 73%
Patrick Dangerfield - 68%
Richard Douglas - 71%
Rory Sloane - 68%
Scott Thompson - 68%

For an inside midfielder in his second season, that is more than a reasonable number.

Matt Crouch clearly has an elite attribute in his arsenal and that is to find the footy. He is a genuine accumulator of possessions and disposes it at an acceptable percentage for an inside player. For a 2nd year player he is well and truly on his way to becoming a bloody good midfielder for us for years to come.

 

[Paladin]

Not sure what you are aiming at here. If it's for his lack of tank, then draftees generally start getting an AFL tank after their 3rd AFL pre-season. Matt Crouch will have his 3rd AFL pre-season (hopefully uninterrupted). The improvement in his fitness from his rookie to his 2nd year was noticeable. No reason why that trend all of a sudden will stop.

If you are referring to his disposal efficiency, then you might want to have a look at these numbers from season 2015

Matt Crouch - 73%
Patrick Dangerfield - 68%
Richard Douglas - 71%
Rory Sloane - 68%
Scott Thompson - 68%

For an inside midfielder in his second season, that is more than a reasonable number.

Matt Crouch clearly has an elite attribute in his arsenal and that is to find the footy. He is a genuine accumulator of possessions and disposes it at an acceptable percentage for an inside player. For a 2nd year player he is well and truly on his way to becoming a bloody good midfielder for us for years to come.

Vader hasn't seen him play yet probably just read Ntrabbits posts

 

[Bacon8]

Yup, just in case he slides to pick 54 or whatever

I don't think these guys will be around for Cats pick 700 either.

Geelong: Rhys Mathieson, Charlie Curnow

 

[Jeffcrowe]

There's also risks with other players.
Harry McKay would be selected on potential but could flop.
Burton's talent is at least proven (as much as it can at that level).
Other players have the go home potential, therefore risk.
Oliver (while I like him) is slightly unproven against men or the best of the best.
Curnow & Weiderman (whilst unlikely to be available at our pick) have little exposed form due to injuries.
Tucker has question marks because his season was worst than last year. Will he improve again in professional environment? Or will he continue his downward curve?
Francis is probably the only one without real question marks at our picks (if he makes it).

Bottom line is they all have risk and if Burton gets the thumbs up I'd be all over him.
No go home factor or queries over talent.

how many years would you be happy to get out of burton? presuming he won't have a long career without knee cartilage

 

[ADL9798]

did anyone see tex give it to grigg in that doco chosen few 2 about the AFL captains? grigg did not handle it well and tex wasn't happy

was a ripping doco

Do you remember what it was about/what was said?

 

[Deaneus!]

Do you remember what it was about/what was said?

"I told you, we're meeting at Bounce at 8pm! Be there!"

 

[Hang_Time]

did anyone see tex give it to grigg in that doco chosen few 2 about the AFL captains? grigg did not handle it well and tex wasn't happy

was a ripping doco

ps vader - Sloane is only outside because we had a dearth of outside and he can follow structures and instructions ...his natural position is inside
I'm not worried about our inside mids, still think we have 0 proven outside mids on our list but hopefully combo of smith, atkins, seedsman, hampton and possibly milera or ah chee can step up

inside mids - B Crouch
- M Crouch
- Sloane
- Thompson
- CEY
- Lyons

outside mids - Smith
Atkins
Seedsman
Hampton .............(all other than Atkins more comfortable off half back)
Grigg

hybrid mids/ forwards - douglas , knight

even disregarding thommo as he won't be around long the inside mid quality much outweighs the outside mid quality comfortably

Add Dean Gore to that list of future Insides I think he will prove quite useful.

 

[Hang_Time]

Giving them contracts doesn't mean that the club thinks they'll miraculously turn into quality footballers, given the lack of quality they've shown in the past.

In some cases, it just means that they survived the cut this year. That's the case for Grigg, who clearly has a "dead man walking" contract and won't be around in 2017. If anything, I think they now regret giving him that contract as it meant that they weren't able to upgrade RO'B at this year's draft.

In the case of Lyons and CEY, I think the club recognises that they have a deficit in this area and they're not willing to let these players go until that deficit has been addressed. We do need some inside mids, even if they're dead-set average. These players will remain as long as it takes for the club to recruit their replacements, in much the same way as Petrenko remained until he was replaced by Betts & Cameron.

I expect that they will be given more opportunities. That has to happen, almost by definition. Dangerfield is gone and Brad Crouch can't be relied on to walk from the race to the centre of the ground without getting injured. Thompson had a good run with injuries in 2015, but I wouldn't bet on a repetition in 2016. The opportunities will be there.. but that's not what's holding these players (Lyons, CEY, Matt Crouch) back.

There is nothing holding these players back they have not even played 50 games have a look at Danger's first 50 he did not exactly set the world on fire. M Crouch will be a beauty and CEY after what he showed last year will be a solid player for us.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Do you remember what it was about/what was said?

It was either about following up a piece of play at training or positioning himself better and then he tells him another couple of times and grigg says something back and tex says

' I'm only trying to help you get better '

Or something similar in a v frustrated tone

Great doco overall and shows how ruthless everything is although surprisingly there are quite a few laughs on field especially when a captain's address goes wrong

 

[morris086]

Matt Crouch - 73%
Patrick Dangerfield - 68%
Richard Douglas - 71%
Rory Sloane - 68%
Scott Thompson - 68%

Just on this part and disposal efficiency in general, not all effective disposals are equal. I'd like to know how a disposal is
considered effective. Although Crouch has the highest efficiency of that group, he also has the highest handball to kick ratio,
although when looking it up Thompson is rather similar. Not that that is bad in an inside midfielder, the issue comes when they
throw the ball on the boot and it becomes a turnover.

Turnovers are our biggest issue imo, its all well and good to have players going at a relatively good disposal efficiency
but when the ball is turned over your making so much more work for the team. That's why it was painful to see VB selected
so much this season, he played some ok games but the frequent turnovers should not be apart of your game when you've
played 202 games.