List Mgmt. Draft Watch 2015

[lunacy]

No, I meant Grigg. Grigg is the one who is on the 12-month "dead man walking" contract, following in the footsteps of LJ and Martin. I expect him to be delisted at the end of 2016 unless something changes radically.

Grigg isn't particularly strong "inside", but he's far too slow to be an "outside" midfielder. That's why his AFL career is stagnating - he really doesn't have a position at this level. There is a place for slower players in the AFL, but they have to be elite inside midfielders with exceptional decision making skills and with elite disposal by hand and foot. Grigg isn't particularly strong inside and the only aspect of his game which is elite is his left foot kicking.

If he is to survive, then he has to find a way of becoming a more contested "inside" player.

I disagree. I think Grigg's natural position is as an inside mid, but we were forced to use him on the outside due to a lack of outside players. Like Sloane, of the long list of inside mids, he was most capable and offered the most on the outside due to his elite leg.

I'd like him to be tried in his natural position as an inside mid. He would have the flexibility to rotate out of the guts at times without being like a fish out of water. Unfortunately M.Crouch and CEY haven't been able to adequately play in other positions than inside mid. This may prove to be a problem when rotations decrease. It would also be great to have an inside mid who has elite skills. Grigg has good lateral movement (side step) which lends itself to working through traffic. He's tough too.

Worth a shot imo.

 

[lunacy]

Grigg will be gone at the end of 2016. Matt Crouch, CEY and Lyons are quantity not quality. Sloane is more outside than inside. Douglas is a good mix of both, but is not primarily an inside ball winner.

The problem is that the inside mids we're losing are our best inside players. While we currently have a number of replacements, none of them are remotely close to the quality of players we're losing. Quantity does not make up for quality, and we may not have that much quantity in 2017 if things don't change very shortly anyway.

Again I disagree. Sloane was forced to play on the outside due to our lack of outside players and his gut running was a point of difference. He has average-adequate skills and is tough, good tackler and wins clearances. He is well suited to playing as an inside mid. He will also run and chase defensively which is something our on-ball brigade lack.

Now that we have some more outside options, Sloane can and will be used on the inside.

 

[Vader]

Wait to the kid has a full pre season and more power to buy some time and space to use the ball better , think things will change

I just don't see that being something that is likely to change. It's not due to a lack of fitness, given that he struggles to hit the side of a barn from the start of the 1st quarter. He's not going to gain a yard or two of pace, giving him time to settle and compose himself. He will improve his endurance, but that's not why he's so poor with the ball.

 

[Vader]

Again I disagree. Sloane was forced to play on the outside due to our lack of outside players and his gut running was a point of difference. He has average-adequate skills and is tough, good tackler and wins clearances. He is well suited to playing as an inside mid. He will also run and chase defensively which is something our on-ball brigade lack.

Now that we have some more outside options, Sloane can and will be used on the inside.

Sloane is likely to be our best player in 2016, with Dangerfield gone and Thompson likely to start declining. His best value is not in playing as a pure inside midfielder - that's a waste of his talents. He is a good mix of inside & outside, not a pure inside extractor.

 

[Vader]

I disagree. I think Grigg's natural position is as an inside mid, but we were forced to use him on the outside due to a lack of outside players. Like Sloane, of the long list of inside mids, he was most capable and offered the most on the outside due to his elite leg.

I'd like him to be tried in his natural position as an inside mid. He would have the flexibility to rotate out of the guts at times without being like a fish out of water. Unfortunately M.Crouch and CEY haven't been able to adequately play in other positions than inside mid. This may prove to be a problem when rotations decrease. It would also be great to have an inside mid who has elite skills. Grigg has good lateral movement (side step) which lends itself to working through traffic. He's tough too.

Worth a shot imo.

Which does beg the question... if they preferred to use Crouch & CEY as inside midfielders (and I'm agreeing with you here), what does that say about how highly they rate Grigg's inside abilities? He's not good enough to force his way ahead of his peers as an inside mid, so they're forced to try and reinvent him as an outside mid - a position for which he is inherently unsuited.

Grigg's natural position is in the SANFL.

 

[Bicks]

I was unsure about Milera, but he has some dominant stats when playing against folks his age - probably the best of his entire draft year.

Dominant stats??

I'm fine if Ogilvie and co draft him as they have better resources at their disposal than I, but I did watch the U18's Champs and on what I saw I thought he was very underwhelming, a couple of the more "dominant" SA youngsters during the Champs Partington and Snelling have hardly rated a mention on here??

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-05-23/u18-championships-div-1-round-1-stats

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-05-31/u18-championships-div-1-round-2-stats

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-11/u18-championships-div-1-round-3-stats

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-16/u18-championships-div-1-round-4-stats

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-26/u18-championships-div-1-round-5-stats

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-02/u18-championships-div-1-round-6-stats

 

[Bicks]

Which does beg the question... if they preferred to use Crouch & CEY as inside midfielders (and I'm agreeing with you here), what does that say about how highly they rate Grigg's inside abilities? He's not good enough to force his way ahead of his peers as an inside mid, so they're forced to try and reinvent him as an outside mid - a position for which he is inherently unsuited.

Grigg's natural position is in the SANFL.

Haven't you noticed you are continuing to "derail" this thread???
Your words....

 

[Brentmeister]

Not sure if already posted but Emma Quayle seems to think tucker might be in with a shot with our first pick.

 

[1970crow]

Not so much in one trade period, but in the space of 12 months. Losing Thompson at the end of 2016 will be the tipping point.

We've lost Dangerfield and Kerridge in 2015. In 2016 we will probably lose Grigg and Thompson. That's 4 inside players gone within 12 months. We should get Brad Crouch back from the injury list (fingers crossed), but we definitely need to grab at least one gun inside midfielder in this draft.

We still have CEY, Lyons and M Crouch, plus VB and Douglas, but that's not a list of players which will fill any opposition coach's heart with dread.

It's not a bad list except for VB returning to an inside mid role. If CEY improves again he'll be handy. Lyons is a good just out of 22 player. M Crouch has the tools and still yet to complete a full preseason, but gets a stack of the ball despite his inexperience and Dougie is pretty good.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Surprised how little discussion on Bonner for #13 ......seems to have fallen off the radar

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Or he did not want to risk getting knee soreness or re-injurying himself and really kissing his AFL chance goodbye. At least this way he will get drafted.

Apparently Burton has been over optimistic on his recovery ......even put his hand up for U18 championships and failed

So talk of SANFL finals has to be put in that classification of "fanciful thinking" on Burtons behalf

Understand his Pre-season for whoever picks him up will still be restricted .....still carrying 7 screws in his leg

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Yeah and they played very different positions on the field and not to mention that one was 80kg outside runner in his later years and Burton is a 90kg tallish forward with defender breathing down his neck. The impact of jumping and landing a 90kg frame compared to a 80kg frame is pretty big. Not to mention that McLeod was an exception and a freak of nature. Who else has done what McLeod has? How is Cooney's career going? Who are the other AFL players that have played with bone on bone for a prolonged period of time where it did not impact them greatly?

There are none!

This is my biggest question mark .....can he leap and land again with confidence, given that's how he broke his leg?

His POD is his marking

 

[WaynesWorld19]

History teaches us many things and we would be fools to ignore it

And yes there are other talented players in this draft without the risk associated

If it was an ACL or a stringer like fracture I'd say no problems ...I was all for lever last year but this is a different scenario

Knee Recos are common now and players tend to make a full recovery .......IF Adelaide pick Burton I am confident the club is also confident in Burton's body ......they'll make the correct call

 

[Vader]

It's not a bad list except for VB returning to an inside mid role. If CEY improves again he'll be handy. Lyons is a good just out of 22 player. M Crouch has the tools and still yet to complete a full preseason, but gets a stack of the ball despite his inexperience and Dougie is pretty good.

It's not a good list - Sloane & Douglas are the only quality players, and they're not really true inside players. It's possible that Gore might be able to join the rotations as well at some point.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

How many outside mids do we need? With Seedsman, Hampton, Wigg, Smith, Douglas we are well covered. Inside mids maybe not quite do much but Both Crouches, Thommo, CEY, Gore, now watch this lad surprise us all, Lyons with VB in reserve we have enough. I would prefer Oliver ahead of Milera purely based on his body size. Like everyone, that is my opinion. As I have said before I would personally take both the McKays if available, but I reckon Harrison will go before our first pick.

This ....list balance is critical .....we don't want to over correct on our outside defficiency .......otherwise we'll be called the "handbag" Crows

Definitely need to target inside mids

What iam having difficulty with is the mentality of this board into Sub-consciously talking about #13 as a 2nd round pick rather than our first pick ...and treating it with the same approach we'd have on other years 1st round picks


Is this me, or are others feeling same?

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Knee Recos are common now and players tend to make a full recovery .......IF Adelaide pick Burton I am confident the club is also confident in Burton's body ......they'll make the correct call

Wasn't a knee reco WW , a fracture through a joint leaves permanent damage to the joint let alone the other things that happened to the soft tissue

I will be highly surprised if he's in the mix for our picks

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Dominant stats??

I'm fine if Ogilvie and co draft him as they have better resources at their disposal than I, but I did watch the U18's Champs and on what I saw I thought he was very underwhelming, a couple of the more "dominant" SA youngsters during the Champs Partington and Snelling have hardly rated a mention on here??

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-05-23/u18-championships-div-1-round-1-stats

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-05-31/u18-championships-div-1-round-2-stats

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-11/u18-championships-div-1-round-3-stats

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-16/u18-championships-div-1-round-4-stats

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-26/u18-championships-div-1-round-5-stats

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-02/u18-championships-div-1-round-6-stats

Think he may be talking central district U 18s?

 

[1970crow]

It's not a good list - Sloane & Douglas are the only quality players, and they're not really true inside players. It's possible that Gore might be able to join the rotations as well at some point.

A lot relies on B Crouch returning injury free. M Crouch with a full preseason and playing his 3rd season I think will improve enormously. I think we'll be ok as long as we can transition Thommo to a few weeks of rests. I see next year as a building year. I remain comfortable even if Lyons a fair bit on the middle. He's good for mid 20's and uses it ok out of a stoppage. But if I see VB or Dmac in there (as we did under Sando), then we're screwed and need to start from scratch in the coaching box.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Gets a lot of the ball, but carries his own jerry can of petrol and book of matches with him at all times. Worst arsonist I've seen in a long time.

Bit harsh on a 2nd year player .....judge M.Crouch more realistically at end of 2016 season

 

[GrommoT]

... till we find out

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[Jeffcrowe]

I just don't see that being something that is likely to change. It's not due to a lack of fitness, given that he struggles to hit the side of a barn from the start of the 1st quarter. He's not going to gain a yard or two of pace, giving him time to settle and compose himself. He will improve his endurance, but that's not why he's so poor with the ball.

Expending all his energy winning the footy and nothing left to push off and get some time to deliver , part of the reason he handballs so much

Stick fat until he has a full pre season and then get critical if he can't deliver

 

[1970crow]

Bit harsh on a 2nd year player .....judge M.Crouch more realistically at end of 2016 season

And let's face it, it's not in his nature to save his petrol tickets. His intensity is first class, gives it everything he's got each time he goes. Leaves himself with nothing spare and he's yet to have a full preseason, even at underage level due to cricket. Literally got to the end of this year on fumes alone.

 

[tinman]

Listen, if there was a doubt by the Crows he wouldn't even be mentioned coming to us. With his talent, you take the chance. He is the same as Weideman, lots of talent but hurt, both will take medicals and pass them.

If there was no doubt, then he wouldn't make it down as far as pick 9 and so he wouldn't be discussed as coming to us.
It's only because of injury that he is talked about as a possibility for us, and it's also probable he will go past 9 & 13, because of risk.

On talent alone Burton would be in the top few picks.

Even if he "passes" the medical, and his progress sounds promising, the extent of his injury could have longer term issues that need to be managed, and which could effect the longevity of his career.

I hope we do pick him up at 13, and have confidence that the medicos will perform a thorough assessment, but there has to be an element of risk. It's a shame Dr Brian Sando is no longer with us, I don't know who our chief medico is now but I'm sure that he or she will do an examination which will place the recruiters in a far better position to know than anyone here.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You don't care that the stats directly refute your claims?! That would be right. Fact is 73% of the time, he hits a target which is a higher clip than any other full time midfielder from season 2015. That is irrefutable. Seems to me there is a bit of this going on with you when it comes to Matt Crouch.

Not a huge fan of stats as an indicator of truth .......players that have a high handball to kick ratio tend to have a high disposal efficiency (M.Crouch)

Thompson is more kick to handball .....often scrubs kicks forward from clearances ......his DE is low, whereas M.Crouch tends to handball as first instinct ATS

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Anyhow, my apologies for derailing the thread. Let's get back to discussing picks #9 & #13...

I enjoyed the derailment ......better than all the sauce images