Draft Watch part 2

[folester41]

love the michie pick at 47 TFLUA, one of my personal favourites, fits the bill with the kicking skills and ability to finish in the foward line. very good overhead and a smart footballer which i always think makes a prospect so much more inticing.

dont know anything about newton so im not even going to pretend i do. you sell him well, but i cant make a judgement.

one player that hasnt been selected who i really rate is aaron young, competitive, neat kick, smart player, finishes well and is good overhead. id be rapt with him at 51 but dont expect him to be available at 51 in the real thing.

 

[El Tigre]

First defender normally denotes the best hence he would go to Riewoldt. Unless you're saying you think Griffiths will be better than Riewoldt?

As for people talking about structure, It's still the traditional CHF and FF IMO. Not many teams roll with 3 talls up forward, Geelong did it on and off this year but more because they got a gem in Pods and Hawkins was in and out with Mooney there as well. You could have another versatile player there like a Taylor though if he makes it but can't see another 195cm+ player there. Also resting ruckman pushes down there.

What we're missing right now is a true lead-up CHF. We have our FF in Riewoldt. Post and Griffiths have to fight for this role. If Lynch is recruited he would join that queue. Then again, that could push Post back and give us another option there.

As Jack gets older, he'll be able to develop a tank that Griffiths never will. So i could see him pushing up the ground alot, like his Cuz does. Tho Jack had a pretty good year with his set shots. I'd be surprised if this kept up, and doesn't get the jitters at some stage. Griffith, by all accounts, has shown the most ability in junior footy with kicking around the 50 mark, better than Jack. One thing that Jack does extremely well (one of, anyway) is if he is within 15m of the goal, and can't mark, he can either get it someone who can, or somehow get it thru. I'd say it'd be unlikely that the other ff prospects could develop if to the extent that Jack has already (but of course never say never) Post is showing signs of being a pinch ruckman, but is a bit in no-mans land. Not that fast, not a tank (yet), not great kicking, but its way too early to tell. Vickery is probably in the same boat as Post, nothing to stand out with, but got basis for good development, but still way to early to tell. Graham, well, he'll always be a ruck. He does need to continue his forward ability.

Where does that leave us? Well if all develop, we don't need Lynch, but if one doesn't, we'd be pinched a bit, and if 2 don't, we're short bigtime. I'm coming around the Lynch side. He's got more potential to play as ruck cum midfielder like Kruezer, and has the gear to be an awesome resting forward. He'll need time to develop, as all talls, and we may as invest in that now, and pick up high class midfielder with our best picks next year. I'd say, if it wasn't for the fact that he is good below the knees, and has a midfield mentality, i would stick with Polec.

 

[folester41]

i still think the defence is a big problem for us, id hope we pick up a key defender with a late or rookie pick.

 

[nugget_12]

Any chance of Mitch hallahan falling to our now pick 30? More articles keep getting written about him and im liking what im hearing! Seems a dedicated kid! Needs to work on his kicking but has the attitude to work on it!
Any chance or is he a certain 1st rounder?

 

[Danog]

i still think the defence is a big problem for us, id hope we pick up a key defender with a late or rookie pick.

I disagree. Our midfielders need to be better defensively.

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

Any chance of Mitch hallahan falling to our now pick 30? More articles keep getting written about him and im liking what im hearing! Seems a dedicated kid! Needs to work on his kicking but has the attitude to work on it!
Any chance or is he a certain 1st rounder?

He fell to 30 in the Mock, but I overlooked him. I think first round is a little early. I like him - but I'm a massive Newton fan and couldn't overlook him.

There's a lot of good discussion today - and i want to answer the stuff directed at me properly - will have an hour session between study tomorrow morning where I crank out write ups and get back to people here.

 

[THE_GUN]

How is that Graham has approved at AFL level that he can play forward and kick goals...Vickery has not!

I cant see graham improving anymore than what he has become unfortunately.

Vickery has only just completed his 2nd year & there is still aloy more upside in vicks , i know tugga doesnt rate him very highly but what more can be expected from a 20 yo 200cm kid that still needs another 10kg before being able to compete.

I see tyrone as a ff/fp ruckman thats capable of kicking 40-45 goals whilst resting foward & rotating in the ruck.

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

Good choice IMO. Like the look and sound of him. At 47, did you think he wouldn't last until 51? Or just going best available?

I've written him up now - and Menagola, who I took at 51. Feel free to have a read.

I had Menagola as the next on my list - so if I didn't go Michie I was going to take Sam. I thought Viv was more chance of being snapped up by 51 than Sam was.

100% Agree. I don't understand this third tall business. He is 195cm and 93kg at 22years old. That is Key Position in anyone's books.

Disagree! Best defender will go to the most dangerous forward. That is the player who will kick the most goals/influence the game more. If that was the case, the best defender should go to Kozi rather than Nick R. (sorry to compare griff to kozi)..... The #1 defender will go to Jack for the next 10 years!

Point I was trying to make is that Griffiths commands a different type of defender than Jack does. With Jack you've got to be a thinking defender who can defend body on body and in the air. He's a thinker, so you've got to watch him, and not let him slip on the first couple of metres.

With Griff it's similar - except he's flat out faster than Jack is - and a little bit faster over the first 5. Jack's slippery, Griff motors away. The ball sticks in his hands, and he pounds goals from more than 60 metres away. You don't allow him free anywhere. Griffiths is taller than Jack, so requires a big bodied/yet athletic defender. That's generally your number one. Quigs had him at 7 in his phantom last year - and i had him at the same number. If injuries stay away, he'll be a monster.

No mate, not that simple. First defender goes to the most dangerous player, which is Jack, by a long way at this point. If Griff becomes more dangerous we break out the champers. Either way, Jack is still a key forward. Taylor, if he makes it, is your third tall.

I still think you try and draft another third tall - but not as a third tall - as a mobile CHF. See my Menagola pick for the kind of type I want.

This is why I suggested taking someone like Walker with a 3rd round pick or later as a young KPF we could develop at Coburg for a couple of years while we see if Griff can get over the injury concerns. If he does then great we've still got a young KPF as backup or trade bait, if he doesn't then we've got a ready made replacement that has spent a couple of years in our system and can come in and have a crack at making CHF his.

Like Walker, but my developing forwards of choice after Lynch, Cook and Darling have always been Brown and Menegola. Like Brown because he can play as a ruckman as well - but he was gone. He's gone under the radar because he's overage and barely played this year. Played champs off a low fitness base and impressed.

Menagola is just a phenomenally exciting prospect athletically. He needs time to develop, and Richmond, a developing team, is a greta environment to do just that. Potential is a dirty word, but he's got it in spades.

First defender normally denotes the best hence he would go to Riewoldt. Unless you're saying you think Griffiths will be better than Riewoldt?

As for people talking about structure, It's still the traditional CHF and FF IMO. Not many teams roll with 3 talls up forward, Geelong did it on and off this year but more because they got a gem in Pods and Hawkins was in and out with Mooney there as well. You could have another versatile player there like a Taylor though if he makes it but can't see another 195cm+ player there. Also resting ruckman pushes down there.

What we're missing right now is a true lead-up CHF. We have our FF in Riewoldt. Post and Griffiths have to fight for this role. If Lynch is recruited he would join that queue. Then again, that could push Post back and give us another option there.

i've kind of answered this in all my posts before.

I don't think Griff is as one-dimensional as people think - he can play as a FF or a CHF. But I'm still after a fast leading, hard running forward, and I think I found my man in Menagola.

To all,

Have a read of the mock as a whole - and my three favourite phantoms from Foj1, Quigley and Snoopdog.

Here's a link to the BF phantom.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=773144

Love feedback - give me what you think - and be brutal if you want.

 

[_RT_]

Like Walker, but my developing forwards of choice after Lynch, Cook and Darling have always been Brown and Menegola. Like Brown because he can play as a ruckman as well - but he was gone. He's gone under the radar because he's overage and barely played this year. Played champs off a low fitness base and impressed.

Menagola is just a phenomenally exciting prospect athletically. He needs time to develop, and Richmond, a developing team, is a greta environment to do just that. Potential is a dirty word, but he's got it in spades.

Like the sounds of Michie and Menegola and notice that Walker hasn't gone yet, wouldn't mind him at 63 if he is still around, would be a good way to end the draft.
Polec Newton Michie as midfield/flanker types, Menegola & Walker address the need for KPP and Houli in the PSD would round it out. I don't think you'll go this way though, I reckon you'll probably target Phillips with 63 as I know you were fairly keen on him.

To all,

Have a read of the mock as a whole - and my three favourite phantoms from Foj1, Quigley and Snoopdog.

Here's a link to the BF phantom.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=773144

Love feedback - give me what you think - and be brutal if you want.

Must say they are the 3 phantoms I look forward to the most, all 3 are insightful and give very good descriptions of the players they pick. Did you notice where Quigley had Gilbee?

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

Like the sounds of Michie and Menegola and notice that Walker hasn't gone yet, wouldn't mind him at 63 if he is still around, would be a good way to end the draft.
Polec Newton Michie as midfield/flanker types, Menegola & Walker address the need for KPP and Houli in the PSD would round it out. I don't think you'll go this way though, I reckon you'll probably target Phillips with 63 as I know you were fairly keen on him.


Must say they are the 3 phantoms I look forward to the most, all 3 are insightful and give very good descriptions of the players they pick. Did you notice where Quigley had Gilbee?

Read me like a book.

Got a few talls to go yet - Walker isn't high up enough to take him unless 4/5 of my guys go first.

I did notice where he had Gilbs - I also noticed where he had guys like Karnezis and Lamb. We normally differ a bit, but a lot more so this year. The guys I don't buy into the hype on (Atley and Caddy, maybe Gaff) he does, and the guys I do (Karnezis, Harper, Lamb) he has a long way down.

 

[Glitch]

Where does that leave us? Well if all develop, we don't need Lynch, but if one doesn't, we'd be pinched a bit, and if 2 don't, we're short bigtime. I'm coming around the Lynch side. He's got more potential to play as ruck cum midfielder like Kruezer, and has the gear to be an awesome resting forward. He'll need time to develop, as all talls, and we may as invest in that now, and pick up high class midfielder with our best picks next year. I'd say, if it wasn't for the fact that he is good below the knees, and has a midfield mentality, i would stick with Polec.

El Tigre, I like your train of logic with regards to depth etc. There is a chance Lynch could be a great role player. That said, the concept of using pick 6 on a player who doesn't yet have a defined position worries me BIG time.

There are probably quite a few reasons why he doesn't have a set position. The biggest one being he only just converted over to being a tall forward as he has grown so ridiculously in the last year 1/2.

The other glaring weakness with Lynch (if I remember correctly) - he was the slowest at draft camp over 20m. That could be a bad test - or maybe he is yet to grow into his new body....I have no idea.

It's hard to get quality talls. But equally it's hard to get elite mids.

I trust our recruiters to know best; so I will be happy with whoever we go with. Personally I hope we go mids - or defenders.

Lastly, given Dimma has said our needs are outside mids and defenders who can choose the right option and execute properly, I doubt with pick 6 we could pass up Atley or Polec - both who seem to fit one or both of Dimma's wish list.

 

[THE_GUN]

Read me like a book.

Got a few talls to go yet - Walker isn't high up enough to take him unless 4/5 of my guys go first.

I did notice where he had Gilbs - I also noticed where he had guys like Karnezis and Lamb. We normally differ a bit, but a lot more so this year. The guys I don't buy into the hype on (Atley and Caddy, maybe Gaff) he does, and the guys I do (Karnezis, Harper, Lamb) he has a long way down.

Yeah and i noticed that both you and quiggley have really got a liking for polec !!

You also differ very much on lynch but looking at his write up about griffiths last year quiggs certainly rated griffiths very very highly but doesnt seem to be a huge fan of lynch though.

 

[Spluff]

Menagola sounds like something you get vaccinated for whilst traveling through South-East Asia.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

The order of the first six appears to be David Swallow (Gold Coast), Harley Bennell (Gold Coast), Sam Day (Gold Coast), Andrew Gaff (West Coast), Dyson Heppell (Brisbane Lions) and Jared Polec (Richmond). The question is whether Gold Coast will plump for Gorringe at No.7 or go for a midfielder.


http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/104950/default.aspx

 

[Toadvine]

Good news if true Polec will be a very good player in my opinion. He is also unlike any player we have on our list.

 

[bigstyletiger]

TFLUA really liked your reasoning behind picking Menegola. From the way you talk about him Michie's highlights don't do him justice and I along with some other posters would have had to consider Hallahan at 30, not just for his approach on the ground, but for his leadership. Has a bit of Kirk about him in his combination of leadership and committment. Still inside players are probably the last thing we need. Keep it up mate.

 

[Toadvine]

I really like Michie I think his only downside is that he's very laconic and has very little if any intensity in his game.

 

[T4P]

TFLUA - What do you think about Matthew Watson? For me our biggest need is a number one defender in the Brian Lake, Harry O'Brien, Harry Taylor, Gwilt physique/mould and he seems to fit the bill. Possibility for our second round pick? I imagine that it's a bit of a reach to get him with pick 6?

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

^^^^Yep lets win games from full back

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

TFLUA - What do you think about Matthew Watson? For me our biggest need is a number one defender in the Brian Lake, Harry O'Brien, Harry Taylor, Gwilt physique/mould and he seems to fit the bill. Possibility for our second round pick? I imagine that it's a bit of a reach to get him with pick 6?

I really like questions like this - thinking outside the square.

Honestly I have Watson at 24 in my rankings - so I'd never even contemplate him at 6. I have McCarthy higher, and Litherland in my top 35.

Why Watson's hyped up: Mature bodied defender with a thumping left foot boot. Good overhead, and when he bulks up will be an imposing unit. Can stretch defences at either end of the ground.

Why I don't have him top 20: Still needs to learn how to outbody forwards one on one - his height and size are big pluses - so you'd be banking on him further developing this if you take him early. He repels attacks at will - but sometime is so attacking that he leaves his man with too much space and gets stung. I'm a query on his pace - especially if he solidifies more - I think he gets found out a bit as it is.

 

[THE_GUN]

Interesting point about watson TFLUA mate, seeing as you rate watson at 24 would you take him at 30 ?

also in regards to menogola,some of the articles have him at 188cm & others at 194 which is probably the correct height seeing as he is listed as tall kpf
which player would you liken him most too out of current/past players & apart from his huge tank what is the main thing that you like about him as i cant seem to find any vision of him playing ?

Also in the mock i noticed farmer went 1 pick before you selected mitchi,if he wasnt would you of taken him instead & where is he rated in your list.
Farmer is the player i would really like to get with either 47 or 51

Also are you still hopeing for phillips at 63 in the mock ?

 

[folester41]

TFLUA - What do you think about Matthew Watson? For me our biggest need is a number one defender in the Brian Lake, Harry O'Brien, Harry Taylor, Gwilt physique/mould and he seems to fit the bill. Possibility for our second round pick? I imagine that it's a bit of a reach to get him with pick 6?

atleast someone else sees the need for a gun key defender.

^^^^Yep lets win games from full back

i dont understand this comment, if you dont have a good back 6 you will never make the top 4 or challenge for a premiership.

for me the key defenders are the biggest worry because it is the only part of the field were we dont have one gun player or atleast future gun player.

astbury i think can be a good chb, im a big fan, but he has a long way to go. the others havnt done anything to make me feel confident about our defence going foward.

gun key defenders are the hardest to find, and they take years to develop.

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

atleast someone else sees the need for a gun key defender.




i dont understand this comment, if you dont have a good back 6 you will never make the top 4 or challenge for a premiership.

for me the key defenders are the biggest worry because it is the only part of the field were we dont have one gun player or atleast future gun player.

astbury i think can be a good chb, im a big fan, but he has a long way to go. the others havnt done anything to make me feel confident about our defence going foward.

gun key defenders are the hardest to find, and they take years to develop.

Look im at the belief that we should keep our back 6 the way they are and see if their any better with a better midfield infront of them(i dont mind Mcgaune). Also depends on your structures and another thing our back 6 never really got to play togeather for a long period of time due to injury so that kind of unsettled it a bit.

 

[SolidTiger]

I'm on the Polec bandwagon. But Richmond must pick the best availiable with their pick no matter where the player plays. Though looking at previous drafts pick 6 is cursed.

I prefer Polec because I prefer a team with an elite midfield and a "B" grade forward line over a team with an "A" grade forward line with a "B" grade midfield. Besides with the retirement of Cousins we need a quality mid to fill that hole.

 

[TFLUA-Tiger]

Interesting point about watson TFLUA mate, seeing as you rate watson at 24 would you take him at 30 ?

also in regards to menogola,some of the articles have him at 188cm & others at 194 which is probably the correct height seeing as he is listed as tall kpf
which player would you liken him most too out of current/past players & apart from his huge tank what is the main thing that you like about him as i cant seem to find any vision of him playing ?

Also in the mock i noticed farmer went 1 pick before you selected mitchi,if he wasnt would you of taken him instead & where is he rated in your list.
Farmer is the player i would really like to get with either 47 or 51

Also are you still hopeing for phillips at 63 in the mock ?

If he was there at 30 I think I'd hit him, yes.

Menagola is definitely 194 - the Draft Machine is the only thing that has him listed as 188 cm. Just an error.

What do I like most? Raw speed coupled with that tank - super fast over the first 5 and clean below his knees.

I don't know if there's an AFL player he's like - he's very raw - some of his attributes have to improve to become an AFL player but the athleticism and stamina is there.

In terms of raw similarities - a taller Grant athleticism wise - but without the cagey-ness or smarts.

Yeah - would have taken Farmer instead. I have him in the thirties.

Did indeed get Phillips with 63. Very happy with that.