Draft Watch part 2

[folester41]

Look im at the belief that we should keep our back 6 the way they are and see if their any better with a better midfield infront of them(i dont mind Mcgaune). Also depends on your structures and another thing our back 6 never really got to play togeather for a long period of time due to injury so that kind of unsettled it a bit.

if we leave them as they are and they dont come good we are just further and further away.

mcguane doesnt have the skills or decision making in my opinion.

thursfield just doesnt do enough, i think he is a natural defender and good spoiler but just doesnt have enough of an impact.

moore is the one capable of making it as a third defender if surrounded by good key defenders, but by the time we make the 8 we may have a better option.

as i said astbury is the one capable of making it as he has the foot skills, decision making and will eventually have the size.

rance will never be a key defender.

gourdis im not a fan of, for me he is an athlete not a footballer, and those types dont usually make good fullbacks.

grimes is one i rate, he has the football brain, skills are decent and to me looks like a composed player down back. of course he has a long long way to go, and im far from saying he will make it, but he is the type id prefer in defence to gourdis, mcguane or thursfield.

i doubt we will draft a key defender this year because we have so many, but next year im sure we will, with atleat 1 and maybe 2 of those mentioned above.

when we do draft a key defender he needs to be a footballer, someone who can read the play, make good decisions and has handy footskills. of course they need athleticism to go with modern day fowards, but a footballer first, then athlete.

 

[fondy]

Menagola video. Seems to work best if you change quality (bottom right) to medium, then hit launch. First highlights are from GF when he kicked 4 goals.

http://bigpondvideo.com/AFL/305637/sam-menagola/

 

[Rustof]

Any chance of Pitt sliding to our second round pick?

 

[_RT_]

For those after a bit more info, Emma Quayle seems to be running through some of the kids on the The Age website: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news

She has a pretty good article on Mitch Hallahan

 

[T4P]

^^^^Yep lets win games from full back

You may not win games from full back. But you can certainly lose games from there.
Have a look at our 'points against' for the 2010 season. We were in the bottom two iirc.
It's a lot harder to wins games if everytime you kick a hard-earnt goal, the opposition goes back and kicks an easy one.
Name a recent premiership team that hasn't had a solid full back?

 

[T4P]

I really like questions like this - thinking outside the square.

Honestly I have Watson at 24 in my rankings - so I'd never even contemplate him at 6. I have McCarthy higher, and Litherland in my top 35.

Why Watson's hyped up: Mature bodied defender with a thumping left foot boot. Good overhead, and when he bulks up will be an imposing unit. Can stretch defences at either end of the ground.

Why I don't have him top 20: Still needs to learn how to outbody forwards one on one - his height and size are big pluses - so you'd be banking on him further developing this if you take him early. He repels attacks at will - but sometime is so attacking that he leaves his man with too much space and gets stung. I'm a query on his pace - especially if he solidifies more - I think he gets found out a bit as it is.

Cheers. Interesting about those downsides though. I'd imagine learning to outbody forwards can be taught and being too attacking can be curbed with a game plan. The pace is the one I've been hearing about but with hard work that can be fixed (don't hear people down-talking Hurley's pace that much anymore).

Unfortunately I think he will be gone by our second pick but a good huge defender size-wise like him is what we need with our biggest defender at the moment being Moore.

EDIT: After looking at Folester's write up of our key defenders above. Astbury for me is a CHB type. We almost need in a sense the equivalent of Jack Riewoldt in defence - doesn't have to be all that athletic, but is a very smart footballer.

 

[Toadvine]

For those after a bit more info, Emma Quayle seems to be running through some of the kids on the The Age website: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news

I just asked Emma this on twitter

Do you think think the top 6 is as set as Daffey does on AFL.com? would be a great result for Polec@6 but I think he may go higher

to which she said

they're swinging between polec and seb tape from what I hear. Maybe Atley but probably not

That's fascinating if true, Considering Tape at pick 6? I'm going to ask he to clarify.

Edit - Update

@emmasq Really? you've heard the Tigers are considering Tape at pick 6? I would've thought he'd sit in the 15-35 range? Vgood player though

@Toadvine he'll go pretty high I would think. Maybe GC if not tiges. My gut feel says polec, who won't get past7

 

[Dustin Credible]

I just asked Emma this on twitter
to which she said
That's fascinating if true, Considering Tape at pick 6? I'm going to ask he to clarify.

Edit - Update

Fascinating indeed. Below are descriptions from the Draft and Trading board having him going at 35,31 and 19 respectively. I know it's supposed to be a very even draft but surely 6 would be an almighty reachfor him?

Pick 35 Port Adelaide

Tape I think would be too good to pass up here. He is a local boy and Port could use a player like Tape helping to set them up from the back. Port have broken down pretty consistently getting from the back into the midfield and Tape could help them in this regard whilst also being a very capable defender.

Seb Tape
DOB 6/8/92 Ht 191 81

If Tape was 195cm tall he would be close to a top 10 pick. Unfortunately he is a little on the short side for his natural KPD role and as a consequence he falls down to the late first early second round as a consequence. He is most likely to play as a third tall in defence in the AFL and third talls are worth quite a bit less than KPDs. Apart from his height though (listed at 189 on the AFL website but he measured better than that lucky for him) there is a lot to like about Tape. He is a very disciplined defender who reads the play very well and makes good decisions about whether to mark or spoil. He has a good leap (9th at Combine at 63cm in the standing vertical) and plays with closing speed (9th in the repeat sprint with 24.420) and makes good choices about when to leave his man and when to stick close. It’s interesting to note his 20m time was very ordinary and his split times indicated that his first 5m was very slow but his top gear is good. People coaching against him will note this and will try and get him to stop and try and create separation from a standing start.

He didn’t take many marks in the Champs but he followed up his very nice Champs form with a good form in the SANFL reserves and then a late seniors debut and in senior company he tended to take more marks. Despite being slightly height challenged he played tall in his SANFL game against AFL players. He has the ability to play on talls and mediums and has shown good agility in sticking with both types. He shows good balance in the contest and uses his body effectively to protect the drop zone although he is not really a toe to toe sort of defensive player. He is more the kind to sag a little and back his ability to read the play and his pace to compensate when needed. Below the knees his hands are very clean for a key position / third tall.

Going the other way he is very effective with a good kick and picks his targets and executes well. He does not have the penetration of someone like Watson (who does really) but he can cover 50m with his kicks although he mostly tries to pick targets rather than pumping it long. He likes to get out and run when he has an opportunity and he often handballs and follows up to receive. His handball technique will need some work when he reaches the AFL. He picks good times and targets to use a handball but he loops it up too much, does not have good penetration and often leaves the recipient a little flat footed. Still I think its nothing a bit of solid work in a professional environment won’t sort out. He is very balanced in his run although over distance his technique tends to get a little ragged I think. He sees himself as a Sam Gilbert type defender and he could turn out a better defensive version of Gilbert although he will have to up his work rate going forward and present as a running option more often. He doesn’t get as much ball as he should currently. This is probably a function of his endurance base which is lower than teams would like. His beep test and 3km results were poor and he will be doing a lot of running to improve this with whichever team takes him. His character is rated very highly within his club.

Overall I think he could be an excellent defensive player in the AFL but whether he can be key position is at best fairly uncertain. He provides nice run off and has the potential to establish himself in a Harry O’Brien or Sam Gilbert type role.

Selection # 31 (BRISBANE LIONS)
Sebastian Tape – Glenelg / 191cm / 85kg

Profile : I really rate this kid - grown a few cm since start of year and is getting to that key position height which increases his value significantly. Also has a good leap and closing speed so will be in the mix post end of Rd 1 for me. His job on Darling at the champs will have been noted (albeit wet from memory). Good when the ball hits the ground and has terrific clean hands as well as the other attribute you need as a modern day defender....closing speed.
Why Brisbane: Probably about the right time to take a defensive tall. No huge rush to bring one in bc MacGuire, Merrett, Drummond and Patfull can all handle the big blokes down back. Hopefully Cornelius is pushed fwd and Retzlaff given some time to so the fwds should be ok for now.
Similar to: Maybe a slightly taller version of Nick Maxwell if you go back to when he started
Draft Range: 20-50
Roughie: Wouldnt surprise to see a Tall fwd like Darcey Barden...imagine being taught by the Great Man!

Pick 19 Hawthorn Seb Tape SA
Backman who is talented with the footy and has the ability to beat his opponent consistently. Tape is 191cm which is just tall enough for a key defender at AFL level however he will give away some height against some talls which could hurt him. However Tape plays composed and looks like a player who will fit into the Hawks system pretty well. Hawthorn may well consider a Jed Lamb or Scott Lycett here if they want an x factor type of player or Lycett for a rucking option.

 

[Dragonfire]

There will not be enough chook poo in the State if we draft Tape with pick 6.

 

[_RT_]

I just asked Emma this on twitter



to which she said



That's fascinating if true, Considering Tape at pick 6? I'm going to ask he to clarify.

Edit - Update

Tape would be a huge surprise.

 

[LuKe2428]

I would like to see us get in the order with pick 6, Heppel, Polec, Lynch.
With out 2nd pick, If either or Parker or Hallahan slide i would cry if we didnt get them, Even if we went small with our first pick. We can get a few talls with our later picks. Even if we try and convince Jack Anthony to go in the nationals draft and get him with pick 50.

One of Post or Giffiths or a player we slect in this years draft (like we did astbury last year) should devalop into a 150-200 game player. But please Richmond If Parker or Hallahan slides please pick them up. Parker was tipped to go top 5-10 a few months ago and beat both Bastinac and Scully in the Dandenong B&F last year.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Tape fits the profile supplied by Tigs2010. Would be an Andrew Mackie pick, both in type and shock value. I see a bit of Pendlebury in him too, so they might see midfield potential in him. The kid can seriously play.

 

[bigstyletiger]

I was keen on Tape at our second pick and although it would be a surprise to hear his name called out at 6 in the context of this draft it makes more sense.

In terms of why he would be a good fit for us. Initially I was thinking that we have plenty of third tall types but we don't really have any who can balance up attack and defense well, hit their targets and create play as well as have the clean ball handling that Tape does. This is a good package and in the modern game where zones are played a smart player with strong leaderhip and the skills Tape has is gold.

Potentially Tape can release Deledio back to the midfield and the way you could look at it is - Lids > Polec in the midfield and Tape gives our backline good balance and future leadership.

Possible team

Moore, McGuane, Newman - backline filled with quality ball users except McGuane with
Tape, Astbury, Connors 4 players over 190cm
Morton, Martin, Deledio - centreline is quick and quality kicks. 3 guns here
Houli, Griffiths, Taylor - half forward line a work in progress. 3 good kicks here now
King, Riewoldt, Post/Vickery - JR - say no more
Foll: Graham, Cotchin, Foley - with the exception of Graham this is elite
Inter: Jackson, Edwards, Grigg

- This side has 5 A grade/ On their way to A grade mids in it with Jackson, Edwards and Grigg being good support.
- It also has a majority of good users and decision makers kicking into the forward line and from the backline.
- The good spread of height in the backline will only make our zone stronger and more effective.

None of this is to say that I think we should take him at 6. Just making a case.

 

[THE_GUN]

Tape is a massive reach at 6 ................ NO from me
Heppell
Polec
Lynch
In that order but no issues with selecting him at 30 if available.

 

[skybeau]

Not a draft expert by any stretch, but would be very happy with the draft should it pan out the way TFLUA has gone with his picks in the phantom. Two talls, three mediums sounds about right to me.

 

[UpTheGuts]

Shouldn't we try to rookie an older/ non 18-yo stick ruckman rather than draft one in the ND? I doubt we'll go Gorringe and prob not even Lycett.

The sub rule changes things and would rather just rookie one, keep as insurance and trade in if required. If Gus and Vickery go as we hope, that won;t be necessary.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Agreed Guts. Pick 63 for Phillips would be acceptable, but no earlier.

 

[_RT_]

Not a draft expert by any stretch, but would be very happy with the draft should it pan out the way TFLUA has gone with his picks in the phantom. Two talls, three mediums sounds about right to me.

Would be quite comfortable going 2 talls 3 mids, although I'd probably prefer an extra KP than another ruck.

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

quote=folester41;19529651]if we leave them as they are and they dont come good we are just further and further away.

mcguane doesnt have the skills or decision making in my opinion.
Think his improved in those areas(still not great).
thursfield just doesnt do enough, i think he is a natural defender and good spoiler but just doesnt have enough of an impact.
Dont rate.
moore is the one capable of making it as a third defender if surrounded by good key defenders, but by the time we make the 8 we may have a better option.
Only passable IMO(Gets it easier).
as i said astbury is the one capable of making it as he has the foot skills, decision making and will eventually have the size.
Yeah should be a star.
rance will never be a key defender.
Dont rate.
gourdis im not a fan of, for me he is an athlete not a footballer, and those types dont usually make good fullbacks.
True really could be anything.
grimes is one i rate, he has the football brain, skills are decent and to me looks like a composed player down back. of course he has a long long way to go, and im far from saying he will make it, but he is the type id prefer in defence to gourdis, mcguane or thursfield.
Did look good on his debut(though from memory he played on the smaller forwards when he was in the 18's not sure though)[/quote]

Also on tape at 6 while a rate him i dont rate him that highly.

 

[purrrrrrrrrrfect]

can I ask some of our more learned posters - maybe u, TFLAU - what seperates Heppall from Tape? (haven seen much of either but from wat I've read heppell maybe being a better kick)... Seeing as though most posters would spend pick 6 on Heppall and not on Tape when the way I see it they would be drafted for playing the same role.

 

[THE_GUN]

Agreed Guts. Pick 63 for Phillips would be acceptable, but no earlier.

I wouldn't mind taking phillips at 63 & rookie listing leif cope, I do like vickery but as a foward that can ruck & believe that browne has shown some potential................................ But really don't rate graham very highly

 

[purrrrrrrrrrfect]

But Graham has shown the most to date.... I dont get why ppl are ready to knock him off when Browne & Vickery are there abouts age wise

 

[THE_GUN]

But Graham has shown the most to date.... I dont get why ppl are ready to knock him off when Browne & Vickery are there abouts age wise

Graham is 3 years older & just looks way too lumbering to me & doesn't reall offer mobility or danger up foward.

looks Tarzan/Plays jane scenario.

 

[ize_]

Graham is 3 years older & just looks way too lumbering to me & doesn't reall offer mobility or danger up foward.

looks Tarzan/Plays jane scenario.

In his first few seasons yes, but last year he really made strides. It's a confidence thing with Gus I think. He has a really good ability to cover the ground now, which is only going to get better. He can also find the footy reasonably well and is certainly desperate, as highlighted by his 17 tackles against Port. He can also clunk them in the air too, and not a bad set shot from 40+. I seriously think he can become a top 10 ruckman in the league.

 

[THE_GUN]

That port game in the rain wasnt a really good example & kind of 1 off type game where it all fell into place for gus, but i dont think we can really just look at that game and say he is it.

To me this year is pretty much make or break for graham,hope i am wrong.