Drafting

[Quicky]

Hine was list Manager and doing recruitment for a few years there dont forget.

So some of the picks he should of had he traded out at very high cost when list manager. He also played a big part in why the cap got screwed in his time as list manager, people forget Ned Guy inherited it you remember that discussion we had years ago over that leaked picture on the board...

Treloar 2 pick 7s.
Murray pick 30.
Aish 2 second rounders.

Can add Beams deal too which he played a part in.
Beams 2 x firsts.

Schaz and Freeman draft really hurt us.
Refusal to draft in KPF prospects early in draft.
Refusal to look at late pick xfactor types preference for hard working gut runners (safer bets but less dynamic and lower upsides).

Again I doubt its an id problem, rather a philosophical one over what a team needs to succeed.

Yeah I agree.

I don't think Hine managed contracts very well when he was list manager and there were some poor decisions made. I think some of those mistakes aren't solely Hines. Ed was responsible for Beams. Mayne was all Gubby.

I also agree it's not an ID problem. I think Hine knows how to pick them. If we're judging him on that I reckon he is sitting in the right role.

I hope with Wright's oversight the footy department is no longer going to be as dysfunctional as the past. If Wright can set that direction I think Hine can deliver the players.

 

[magpies42]

Ridiculous, Sydney can do it. Geelong can do it. Hawthorn can do it. Port adelaide can do it and there are probably others as well. There is nothing special about Hine and his record isn't that good. About the woke crap, don't really give a crap about it, I'm more interested in their ability than what they do in their spare time. Unfortunately, it's supporters like you who refuse to see the problems that are dragging our once great club down. We need a completely new direction

Rather than making blind statements, how about back it up with some facts...what draft did he get wrong and show me also where those clubs you have listed have got it absolutely right!

I suspect you can’t.

 

[nahnah]

Yeah I agree.

I don't think Hine managed contracts very well when he was list manager and there were some poor decisions made. I think some of those mistakes aren't solely Hines. Ed was responsible for Beams. Mayne was all Gubby.

I also agree it's not an ID problem. I think Hine knows how to pick them. If we're judging him on that I reckon he is sitting in the right role.

I hope with Wright's oversight the footy department is no longer going to be as dysfunctional as the past. If Wright can set that direction I think Hine can deliver the players.

But can he deliver key position players or is he just going to keep selecting the best ball winning mid available at each pick?

 

[No SPIN]

But can he deliver key position players or is he just going to keep selecting the best ball winning mid available at each pick?

who are the top 3 recruiters at picking KPP ?

 

[sr36]

But can he deliver key position players or is he just going to keep selecting the best ball winning mid available at each pick?

I wish he did pick ball winning mids. We haven't drafted a decent mid in a decade.

 

[Scodog10]

I have to wonder whether the same thread has popped up on the Geelong and especially Brisbane boards yet? Perhaps the WC board at some stage tomorrow?

Before we dump our head recruiter who doesn’t play a role in developing or coaching the players he picks maybe we wait for a bigger sample size than 1 game? It’s a while ago I know, but we did start 2018 0-2 and were jumped by Carlton in Rd 3. Hell we may have just ran into a very good Bulldogs outfit...

 

[nahnah]

who are the top 3 recruiters at picking KPP ?

Whoever recruits for Richmond, West coast and Brisbane

 

[nahnah]

I have to wonder whether the same thread has popped up on the Geelong and especially Brisbane boards yet? Perhaps the WC board at some stage tomorrow? Perhaps we need a bigger sample size before we dump our head recruiter who doesn’t play a role in developing or coaching the players he picks?

Why would it be too early to review drafting between 2015-19? Maybe 2019 but the rest I’m not sure why it would be?

 

[No SPIN]

Whoever recruits for Richmond, West coast and Brisbane

Lynch, Kennedy, Daniher and Dixon ( PA) all not drafted.
BNE failed with Schache.
Geel still haven’t found a Ruckman or developed a KF and needed to trade for Cameron.
Haw couldn’t draft a KF and traded in Patton, similarly Ess with 2 metre Peter.
Saints failed with McCartin.
I could go on.
You are attempting to hold Hine to an unrealistic standard.

 

[Scodog10]

Why would it be too early to review drafting between 2015-19? Maybe 2019 but the rest I’m not sure why it would be?

Well you know being one game into the first season they’ll hopefully receive full exposure might be one reason. What if Sier, T Brown, Daicos, IQ and Murphy are in our best next week in a big win over Carlton? Do we then go back to loving Hine?

Personally it’s obvious that list management was the issue. If we don’t trade for Beams we get an extra first round pick in that period and have the cap space to retain Phillips and Stephenson. The discussion takes on a completely different complexion.

I get it you’re off us right now it’s hard not to be after Friday night and you’ve made it very clear these past 3 months, but give it 4-6 weeks of actual games. A week is a long time in footy and threads like this sometimes don’t age well. In a months time the Bulldogs might be 5-0 with a % of 150 and we look back going in the scheme of things we held up well.

FWIW I’m teetering and want to see how we respond. A follow up insipid performance will tell us more about the coach than the talent though, IMO. By that I mean if we’re similarly flat on Thursday I’d question whether Buckley still has the group. That’s my concern after the events of last off season not the talent at our disposal. The group clearly loved Treloar that much was clear on Friday and sometimes effort is more important than talent.

 

[nahnah]

Well you know being one game into the first season they’ll hopefully receive full exposure might be one reason. What if Sier, T Brown, Daicos, IQ and Murphy are in our best next week in a big win over Carlton? Do we then go back to loving Hine?

Personally it’s obvious that list management was the issue. If we don’t trade for Beams we get an extra first round pick in that period and have the cap space to retain Phillips and Stephenson. The discussion takes on a completely different complexion.

I get it you’re off us right now it’s hard not to be after Friday night and you’ve made it very clear these past 3 months, but give it 4-6 weeks of actual games. A week is a long time in footy and threads like this sometimes don’t age well...

FWIW I’m teetering and want to see how we respond. A follow up insipid performance will tell us more about the coach than the talent though, IMO. By that I mean if we’re similarly flat on Thursday I’d question whether Buckley still has the group. That’s my concern after the events of last off season not the talent at our disposal. The group clearly loved Treloar that much was clear on Friday and sometimes effort is more important than talent.

The only way this thread ages badly is if Rantall and Bianco come good. The rest are effectively set in stone, either traded for cheap, delisted or certified duds. Sier has been living off 5 good games 4 seasons ago, if he plays well vs blues he will go missing the next week vs the lions. He’s just not good.

IQ and Daicos are good players it wouldn’t surprise me if they play well, they’re our two best younger players. They were effectively handed to us and
I have issues with the way we handle trading out our picks when we have a highly rated prospect assigned to us. We essentially devalue our own asset because we have a high rated player coming in anyway, to me it’s lazy + short sighted. Whether it’s Hine’s decision making I’m not sure but I assume he plays a big part in that.

I’m very low on our current batch of younger players and I have predicted we finish 10-11 so yes you could say I am off us at the moment

 

[No SPIN]

I have to wonder whether the same thread has popped up on the Geelong and especially Brisbane boards yet? Perhaps the WC board at some stage tomorrow?

Before we dump our head recruiter who doesn’t play a role in developing or coaching the players he picks maybe we wait for a bigger sample size than 1 game? It’s a while ago I know, but we did start 2018 0-2 and were jumped by Carlton in Rd 3. Hell we may have just ran into a very good Bulldogs outfit...

no mate - no room for a calm considered view here.
The sky is falling in - find the nearest desk and hide under it.

 

[stormskye]

no mate - no room for a calm considered view here.
The sky is falling in - find the nearest desk and hide under it.

Again, this is not a reaction to ONE game, fri night was “Groundhog Day” all over again. Same issues, nothings changed. Not interested in other teams, interested in continued drop off and putrid game style where we can’t score. Clearly nothing was addressed or changed in the off-season, as we played identical to 2020.


We need a crisis meeting for our midfield, should be bringing in some outside talent to try and help coach Grundy.

Bucks needs to hang Einstein’s quote in his office:

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results”

 

[No SPIN]

Again, this is not a reaction to ONE game, fri night was “Groundhog Day” all over again. Same issues, nothings changed. Not interested in other teams, interested in continued drop off and putrid game style where we can’t score. Clearly nothing was addressed or changed in the off-season, as we played identical to 2020.

fumble, fumble, missed tackles , missed mark, missed targeted, fumble fumble is not our usual style.

 

[Maggie5]

In terms of drafting, I think that 2016 was a very bad year with the drafting and salaries(cap) to Wells (32) and Mayne (28). Then add the reurn of Beams which I was never in favour of and here we are.

Then other decisions re player movement and salaries put us behind the black ball which led us to where we are now.

Hopefully there are a couple of gems yet to play.

 

[stormskye]

fumble, fumble, missed tackles , missed mark, missed targeted, fumble fumble is not our usual style.

Reliance on defence and Moore especially, smashed in midfield and completely ineffective forward and capacity to kick 10 goals is. We ticked every box

 

[Scodog10]

The only way this thread ages badly is if Rantall and Bianco come good. The rest are effectively set in stone, either traded for cheap, delisted or certified duds. Sier has been living off 5 good games 4 seasons ago, if he plays well vs blues he will go missing the next week vs the lions. He’s just not good.

IQ and Daicos are good players it wouldn’t surprise me if they play well, they’re our two best younger players. They were effectively handed to us and
I have issues with the way we handle trading out our picks when we have a highly rated prospect assigned to us. We essentially devalue our own asset because we have a high rated player coming in anyway, to me it’s lazy + short sighted. Whether it’s Hine’s decision making I’m not sure but I assume he plays a big part in that.

I’m very low on our current batch of younger players and I have predicted we finish 10-11 so yes you could say I am off us at the moment

I question whether T Brown, Murphy and Kelly (all 21 or under) are set in stone, but all power to you for that proclamation. I’m likewise down on Sier, I think Brown was a victim of the way the game played out on Friday and I don’t share the faith in Daicos (I’m waiting a little to share my views on what 2021 and 2022 mean for him), but things evolve quickly. Macrae coming in and having an impact changes the dynamic (he’s the one I’m certain on) because I’m he goes top 5 with a top age year under his belt. The key is that the coaching group keep the faith rather than reverting to type with Mayne and Greenwood.

Hine was a loud voice on the list management committee for one off season and he fluffed his lines on the Murray deal. Surrounded by that we had Gubby and Guy throwing money around like rice at a wedding chasing players that weren’t right for us and giving up highly valued assets in the process. It’s hamstrung Hine and the only time he’s found value since, IMO, was at the last draft due to the crafty moves we made on draft night. Again though it was out of his control.

I get it it’s tough right now to see the forest for the trees, but sit tight our Rd 1 performance in 2018 was worse and there’ll be time later in the season to take shots because this will be Buckley’s final year, IMO. I’m also not trying to do a Spinny and persuade you of something we both know isn’t true. My take is only to hold on a little longer before going all in on the demise of Hine and those drafted in those five drafts.

 

[Scodog10]

no mate - no room for a calm considered view here.
The sky is falling in - find the nearest desk and hide under it.

Unfortunately we aren’t allies on this topic. I have massive concerns right now, but the key difference is I’m not as prepared as some to commit to them yet.

For instance we’re LTI’s to Moore and Maynard from being bottom 4. That for me is nightmare fuel for the clubs short to medium term future. Our first pick as it stands is falling mid 30’s (WB 2nd rounder) at the earliest given our first is with GWS and our 2nd with Hawthorn. In a supposedly good draft year we’re lucky to have priority access to Daicos, but we’re injuries away from pissing that up the wall.

Yes we can always trade a future first to get into this draft which can only be done post a bid on Daicos, but it’s not a good position to be in when you look at the talent accumulated by Sydney, GC, WB and Port...

 

[Horaceg]

Which big name player would you consider?
For me rhe only untouchable is Moore.
Obviously wont happen but would you consider trading Grundy or DeGoey for some young guns or draft picks?
Id certainly consider grundy due to his large contract.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We would have to pay part of his salary (Grundy) unless he turns things around Quickly.

JDG might just be that guy, never quite met expectation. I hope not but he needs to rip in sooner rather than later.

 

[nahnah]

I question whether T Brown, Murphy and Kelly (all 21 or under) are set in stone, but all power to you for that proclamation. I’m likewise down on Sier, I think Brown was a victim of the way the game played out on Friday and I don’t share the faith in Daicos (I’m waiting a little to share my views on what 2021 and 2022 mean for him), but things evolve quickly. Macrae coming in and having an impact changes the dynamic (he’s the one I’m certain on) because I’m he goes top 5 with a top age year under his belt. The key is that the coaching group keep the faith rather than reverting to type with Mayne and Greenwood.

Hine was a loud voice on the list management committee for one off season and he fluffed his lines on the Murray deal. Surrounded by that we had Gubby and Guy throwing money around like rice at a wedding chasing players that weren’t right for us and giving up highly valued assets in the process. It’s hamstrung Hine and the only time he’s found value since, IMO, was at the last draft due to the crafty moves we made on draft night. Again though it was out of his control.

I get it it’s tough right now to see the forest for the trees, but sit tight our Rd 1 performance in 2018 was worse and there’ll be time later in the season to take shots because this will be Buckley’s final year, IMO. I’m also not trying to do a Spinny and persuade you of something we both know isn’t true. My take is only to hold on a little longer before going all in on the demise of Hine and those drafted in those five drafts.

Kelly was handed to us, all we had to do was say yes we will take him. It's effectively like praising the bulldogs recruiter for drafting JUH.
It is hard to see Murphy coming good, his two games a few years ago were incredibly underwhelming and he hasn't been sighted since making me believe he will struggle to make it.
Tyler Brown looks very average, he looks like a younger Chris Mayne to me.
I am high on Macrae too, he was the only pick I was really a fan of in this years draft. We will see how all that plays out down the line.
The only player I believe I have ever written off too early was Josh Daicos and you are saying you don't have faith in him.

 

[LarryKinn]

In terms of drafting, I think that 2016 was a very bad year with the drafting and salaries(cap) to Wells (32) and Mayne (28). Then add the reurn of Beams which I was never in favour of and here we are.

Then other decisions re player movement and salaries put us behind the black ball which led us to where we are now.

Hopefully there are a couple of gems yet to play.

should have let Cox, Phillips and Langdon(bum knees) walk
without these critically mismanaged decisions we could have a war chest available
criminal mismanagement

 

[mwhop]

When I look at our current list I feel ill. Way too little talent, and way too little cohesion between our onfield and off field football programs.

To be the best you need a cohesive football program strategy that extends across gameplan, list management and resources.
For eg. if you aim to draft heavily , then you invest in the best recruiters and youth development coaches.
Or, if you want to play a gameplan that is highly contested, you need to recruit robust players and have good fitness program.
Or, like hawthorn, if you want to go low contest you can afford to try and get bargain trades for older players with injury history and make sure you have the best medical staff.

As for Dekka, I remember in the mid 2000s when we had rookie players and low picks coming through and doing great, like Heretier, Toovey, Wellingham, Goldsack etc. And I remember Alan Richardson headed up our youth development and we had a very high hit rate of bringing players in. Plus our gameplan had clear roles for these types.

 

[Quicky]

But can he deliver key position players or is he just going to keep selecting the best ball winning mid available at each pick?

I think Hine can deliver a key forward. I understand your misgivings considering his history. This is where I think the football boss needs to step in and provide the direction. Require it as a trade focus or to be addressed with high picks.

 

[No SPIN]

Unfortunately we aren’t allies on this topic. I have massive concerns right now, but the key difference is I’m not as prepared as some to commit to them yet.

For instance we’re LTI’s to Moore and Maynard from being bottom 4. That for me is nightmare fuel for the clubs short to medium term future. Our first pick as it stands is falling mid 30’s (WB 2nd rounder) at the earliest given our first is with GWS and our 2nd with Hawthorn. In a supposedly good draft year we’re lucky to have priority access to Daicos, but we’re injuries away from pissing that up the wall.

Yes we can always trade a future first to get into this draft which can only be done post a bid on Daicos, but it’s not a good position to be in when you look at the talent accumulated by Sydney, GC, WB and Port...

Injures happen to key players -Howe, Langdon JDG, last year were covered.
We have picked promising kids, our list now is 13th youngest, with a very good young core group,
Not sure luck has anything to do with 2021 draft because if ND was not there we may well have chosen a very different approach to that, and the 2020 draft.
Its exactly because of ND we piled into the 2020 draft in a big way.

Let’s also remember we now have sizeable Cap space to attract a gun.

 

[mwhop]

Injures happen to key players -Howe, Langdon JDG, last year were covered.
We have picked promising kids, our list now is 13th youngest, with a very good young core group,
Not sure luck has anything to do with 2021 draft because if ND was not there we may well have chosen a very different approach to that, and the 2020 draft.
Its exactly because of ND we piled into the 2020 draft in a big way.

Let’s also remember we now have sizeable Cap space to attract a gun.

what makes you think our core young group is any good?
most are low picks. Some teams have multiple rowell and rankine types coming through together