Dragon Age 2 - first screenshots

[kaysee]

I am about to head OS for 3 weeks... so didn't want to pick it up, start a game without finishing it, and be itching to get back into it for 3 weeks.

So I'll pick it up as soon as I get back... actually got all my gaming pretty much planned out for the rest of the year once I get back.

- DA2 on xbox
- RIFT on the PC
- NBA Jam (yeah... late in grabbing this but want to give it some legs).

... that should hopefully keep me tied over until ME3.

- ME3
- any other unexpected titles

... keep me going til Diablo 3

- D3

 

[Valentino Dmitri]

the user reviews section of metacritic is presently being flooded with the tears of disgruntled nerds

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/dragon-age-ii/user-reviews

like fat office women whinging about dominos changing their meatasaurus reciepe, the lot of them.

 

[Jabso]

I like having VD on the forums, and I agree with VD.

I'm reading the Shogun 2 Total War steam forums and the nerd rage from PC elitists has spilled onto those forums. They claim DA2 has been dumbed down for console kiddies. Half of them would be kiddies themselves who think they're hardcore PC devotees because they installed a couple of sticks of ram and a video card paid for by mummy.

Damn PC elitists, the most whingiest fanbase, equal to COD fans who whinge about it but still buy buy buy, play play play (even my beloved Football Manager has forums full of people complaining about FM despite putting probably 1000 hours into the game). They claim companies who so much as have anything to do with consoles have sold out. They think they have the right to have the best versions of certain games because that developer developed a couple of PC exclusive titles in the past. Sure PC gaming has been revolutionary, as has console gaming. Console gaming would be stuck in the 90s without pc gaming, and without console gaming PC gaming wouldn't exist. Video games are video games.

 

[buzzbuzz]

Ok despite not liking the demo, I picked the game up yesterday. What can I say; Bioware have credits in the bank.

The writing is terrible and the graphics almost look worse then Dragon Age: Origins. However, it is fun. Ridiculous, in many ways, but fun to play. I'll see if it picks up and report back.

 

[FGMPR]

I'm 8 hours in and the best way I can describe it would be to compare DA:O to a critically and commercially successful movie to DA2's straight-to-DVD crapfest sequel that has little to do with the original.

The tiny amount of locales within the game and the constant re-use of these tiny dungeons, with the vast majority of the game taking place in 1 city screams "quick cash-in". However, in spite of that, there are things to like about the game, and for all it's faults, I don't really regret the purchase other than the fact that by doing so, I'm telling EA/Bioware that this is what I want, when all I really want is DA:O's combat system and budget with a less cliche ridden storyline.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Been playing this for a few days. So far its spectacularly dull, and seems to bear no actual connection to the original game.

 

[HBK619]

the user reviews section of metacritic is presently being flooded with the tears of disgruntled nerds

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/dragon-age-ii/user-reviews

like fat office women whinging about dominos changing their meatasaurus reciepe, the lot of them.

Awww jeez.

Source: http://vividgamer.com/2011/03/14/bioware-employee-caught-reviewing-dragon-age-ii/

BIOWARE EMPLOYEE CAUGHT REVIEWING DRAGON AGE II
Reddit user GatoFiasco was browsing the user reviews for Dragon Age 2 until something strange caught his eye: the top user review by ‘Avanost’ was closer to an ad than a review. Here’s a quote from the review, already taken down:

“The immersion and combat of this game are unmatched! A truly moving and fun epic. Anything negative you’ll see about this game is an overreaction of personal preference. For what it is, it is flawlessly executed and endlessly entertaining.” 10/10
​

Adding to the suspicion, Avanost has only reviewed one game: Dragon Age II. The GatoFiasco continued down the google hole, and eventually found that the reviewer works for EA Bioware as an engineer.

Original Source: http://www.reddit.com/comments/g3td7/dragon_age_2_conspiracy_highest_rated_metacritic/

 

[SpaceCow]

Haha, I read about that.

My favourite part is

Anything negative you’ll see about this game is an overreaction of personal preference.

 

[Donners]

Glad I gave this a miss. In the days of restoration packs and compatibility packs, there's no reason not to go back to the classic games of the golden age of RPGs.

 

[Valentino Dmitri]

I like having VD on the forums, and I agree with VD.

I'm reading the Shogun 2 Total War steam forums and the nerd rage from PC elitists has spilled onto those forums. They claim DA2 has been dumbed down for console kiddies. Half of them would be kiddies themselves who think they're hardcore PC devotees because they installed a couple of sticks of ram and a video card paid for by mummy.

Damn PC elitists, the most whingiest fanbase, equal to COD fans who whinge about it but still buy buy buy, play play play (even my beloved Football Manager has forums full of people complaining about FM despite putting probably 1000 hours into the game). They claim companies who so much as have anything to do with consoles have sold out. They think they have the right to have the best versions of certain games because that developer developed a couple of PC exclusive titles in the past. Sure PC gaming has been revolutionary, as has console gaming. Console gaming would be stuck in the 90s without pc gaming, and without console gaming PC gaming wouldn't exist. Video games are video games.

Nice Post Jazzy

Agree and sympathise, not to tar everyone with the same brush!

I used to game on PC's a lot, but now that i am old and cranky the last thing I want to do after 8 hours working in an office is to go home and sit at a desk, in an ergo-****ing-nomic chair, using a keyboard and ****ing mouse. Would much rather a couch, big screen tv and a gamepad.

Awww jeez.

Source: http://vividgamer.com/2011/03/14/bioware-employee-caught-reviewing-dragon-age-ii/
Original Source: http://www.reddit.com/comments/g3td7/dragon_age_2_conspiracy_highest_rated_metacritic/

oh dear. with that kind of sledgehammer subtlety i'm surprised he wasn't the lead writer of DA2! (unfair swipe that i don't fully agree with myself, but a cheap shot is a cheap shot and you have to take them when you can)

*************************

(that was a page break btw, not a really long swear word)

clocked the game last night and really really enjoyed it while thinking it could have been a lot better in places. will post some thoughts later when it is not lunch time

 

[Ant_]

I used to game on PC's a lot, but now that i am old and cranky the last thing I want to do after 8 hours working in an office is to go home and sit at a desk, in an ergo-****ing-nomic chair, using a keyboard and ****ing mouse. Would much rather a couch, big screen tv and a gamepad.

Same reason I bought a console.

 

[FGMPR]

Same reason I bought a console.

That's all fair enough, but it doesn't mean consolization doesn't exist, because it clearly does. Anyone who played the original DA on PC and then played DA2, or compares Battlefield 2 to BC2 could not honestly tell me that the numerous stripping of features and complexity is anything other than simplifying or dumbing down these games for the consoles lack of buttons, lack of RAM, gimped network usage limits and the industry wide perception of console users as gamers who want everything with little effort. How else could you explain the lack of a server browser for BC2 on consoles? EA/DICE clearly believe that console user just want to press a button and join a game whilst on PC, any game that doesn't come with a browser is torn apart and soon abandoned.

 

[Valentino Dmitri]

Anyone who played the original DA on PC and then played DA2, or compares Battlefield 2 to BC2 could not honestly tell me that the numerous stripping of features and complexity is anything other than simplifying or dumbing down these games for the consoles lack of buttons, lack of RAM, gimped network usage limits and the industry wide perception of console users as gamers who want everything with little effort.

Hello FGMPR

I can't speak for BC2, but off the top of my head I can't think of any area in which DA2 was dumbed down from the original thanks to the console versions. Was there anything in particular you are having issues with?

 

[FGMPR]

Hello FGMPR

I can't speak for BC2, but off the top of my head I can't think of any area in which DA2 was dumbed down from the original thanks to the console versions. Was there anything in particular you are having issues with?

Yes.

-Limited special weapons or armor for anyone other than the main character

-Random spawning of mobs means that the crucial strategic element that comes along with carefully placing your mages behind your tanks etc is thrown out the window

-You can no longer stack command inputs for your characters

-The game is flat out easier. Even easy in DA:O on PC was a challenge in parts

-No overhead view

-You can no longer choose where to place your AOE spells, so now they can't miss

-No team damage except on nightmare difficulty, which is incredibly cheap and frustrating to play

-Restricted to being a human

-No skills are able to be placed into the conversation system. This is something I've always enjoyed about playing RPG's, but Bioware on their warpath to rip the "RP" from RPG have seen it fit to give you three conversation options and leave it at that. Where as before each character you make could be radically different, now Hawke is pretty much Hawke

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Other things that are shit about DA2:

-Reused environments: So many quests, so few dungeons. Repeating the same dungeons in different quests, when they are actually supposed to be different places according to the story is flat out pathetic.

-Graphics look like arse: Not a huge issue for me, but damn this game can be ugly

-The city is sliced up into a bunch of tiny maps with no type of real-time travel between them. It feels so disjointed, and you get no sense of the city at all. From looking at some of the concept art, it just didn't translate well.

-Continuing off the last point, there is just very little sense of discovery within the game, from the main character, which you should be able to mold into whatever you see fit to the disjointed game world.

However, Dragon Age 2 does some things really well, and they are enough for me to say that 18 hours in, I've enjoyed the majority of it so far (the first 8hours was... really bad. Endless MMO-style sidequests with a pitiful sprinkling of story based content, after which it picks up substantially).

The best attribute DA2 possesses is it's rich variety of exceptional characters. There are a number of fantastic, original characters in this game, and in an RPG, that is a huge plus. Also, the story, although completely lacking in the characterization of Hawke and his family (who am I, why am I here, am I supposed to care that x is dead? are the kinds of questions you will find yourself asking for the first few hours, and even after that, the backstory of your family is told poorly), has picked up in the second act into the third where I can say that I am really enjoying it, and am finding it a breath of fresh air in the fantasy RPG genre. I'm so sick of saving the world, and this story is a much more low-key styled affair.

Overall, it's a pretty good game, but it should never have been a sequel to DA. Spin off? yes, sequel? no. I hope they bring back DA:O style of gameplay come DA3.

 

[Jabso]

Could it be possible that Bioware just designed a poorer game rather than bastardising it for "console kiddies".

 

[SpaceCow]

@above people.

This may account for some 'shortcomings'.

Ever Wonder Why Dragon Age II Came Out So Soon?

So why did Dragon Age II come out less than 18 months after Dragon Age?

The game's composer, Inon Zur, may have an answer for you. "Unlike other titles from Bioware, this [score] was kind of a rush job", he tells IGN. "EA really wanted to capitalize on the success of Origins, so the game was really being pushed hard to be released now."

 

[FGMPR]

Could it be possible that Bioware just designed a poorer game rather than bastardising it for "console kiddies".

No. When so many aspects of the game have been trimmed down and simplified it's not an accident.. it's a design desision.

I never called anyone a console kiddie, either. I simply stated that it's an obvious (mis)conception within the industry. The main problem with trying to put a game like DA on console is simply the fact that you need a cursor to wade through the numerous menu's very quickly. No mouse = complete re-design required, which is perfectly understandable, and is something that was done in the original. For DA2, however, its blatantly obvious that the combat was improved for the console games, and instead of a re-design like we saw for DA:O, the PC just got dumped with a console port.

If people want to deny such things happen, frequently, than that's fine. Just a simple look at copious amounts of evidence, however, and using some basic logic whilst comparing the hardware and gaming input of consoles to your average gaming PC can only lead to the conclusion that they are very different pieces of tech, and you can't take advantage of the more advanced of the two unless you put in a bit of extra effort.

The thing that is especially insulting is that DA:O was hyped as the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. DA:O was simplified plenty from BG2 (although that had a lot to do with no longer using the AD&D ruleset-probably for the better), but the combat system was the same type of RPG we had played through the years starting from BG1 through to Neverwinter Nights 2. This was the audience this series was originally made for, and not only that, but DA:O is still Bioware's best selling game. EA cracked the whip and the Bioware "B-Team" started working on a sequel during the huge gap between DA:O's PC completion and the console ports. It appears that Bioware had very little faith in Dragon Age's gameplay, and thus changed it for DA2 before DA1 even hit the market.

 

[Valentino Dmitri]

Yes.

-Limited special weapons or armor for anyone other than the main character

Wasn't that an artistic decision rather than having anything to do with complexity though? Pretty sure i remember reading that bioware wanted the characters to have their own unique looks.

-Random spawning of mobs means that the crucial strategic element that comes along with carefully placing your mages behind your tanks etc is thrown out the window

i've read theories that state the opposite, that fighting is more complex, knowing that there will almost definitely be another wave of enemies to fight, meaning you'll have to keep on your toes, adapt on the fly and not blow your load by using all your best skills right off the bat. i've no idea how valid this is though; i'm rubbish at fighting to be honest

-You can no longer stack command inputs for your characters

would this have anything to do with dumbing it down for console users though? if it was too complicated, they simply wouldn't use it, would they? the game would be exactly the same for them whether or not it was included in the game.

-The game is flat out easier. Even easy in DA:O on PC was a challenge in parts

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...ains-Why-Dragon-Age-II-Is-Easier-Than-Origins

Supports what you are saying!

-No overhead view

i remember reading this was an artistic decision; in any case i'm not sure how this has anything to do with being simplified for console gamers.

-You can no longer choose where to place your AOE spells, so now they can't miss

unless i'm misunderstanding what you're saying, you can place aoe's just the same as you could in the first game.

-No team damage except on nightmare difficulty, which is incredibly cheap and frustrating to play

fair enough. in addition, i don't really like the new injury system; i thought they nailed that idea in the first game.

-Restricted to being a human

this was never an issue with planescape for instance. there's still a lot of scope to create a unique character within that restriction. hawke seems to be more of an effort to create a real entity to latch onto rather than the empty vessel that was the grey warden. i thought it worked very well in mass effect. hawke isn't at that level imo, but still makes for a good compromise between customisation and a believable character in the context of the story. i've no problems with this technique, definitely don't see it as being dumbed down

-No skills are able to be placed into the conversation system. This is something I've always enjoyed about playing RPG's, but Bioware on their warpath to rip the "RP" from RPG have seen it fit to give you three conversation options and leave it at that. Where as before each character you make could be radically different, now Hawke is pretty much Hawke

think you're being a bit harsh here (pretty much every conversation as a fair bit more than 3 dialog options), but i do agree to an extent. in fact i kinda just like the old AD&D games system - you have high intelligence, you get more dialog options. i think DA2 has different options depending on the context though (class, sex, party members, prior knowledge that you may have garnered through conversations with other npcs etc) do come in to play, so there's a fair bit of variety in how you play hawke

Other things that are shit about DA2:

-Reused environments: So many quests, so few dungeons. Repeating the same dungeons in different quests, when they are actually supposed to be different places according to the story is flat out pathetic.

-Graphics look like arse: Not a huge issue for me, but damn this game can be ugly

-The city is sliced up into a bunch of tiny maps with no type of real-time travel between them. It feels so disjointed, and you get no sense of the city at all. From looking at some of the concept art, it just didn't translate well.

-Continuing off the last point, there is just very little sense of discovery within the game, from the main character, which you should be able to mold into whatever you see fit to the disjointed game world.

However, Dragon Age 2 does some things really well, and they are enough for me to say that 18 hours in, I've enjoyed the majority of it so far (the first 8hours was... really bad. Endless MMO-style sidequests with a pitiful sprinkling of story based content, after which it picks up substantially).

The best attribute DA2 possesses is it's rich variety of exceptional characters. There are a number of fantastic, original characters in this game, and in an RPG, that is a huge plus. Also, the story, although completely lacking in the characterization of Hawke and his family (who am I, why am I here, am I supposed to care that x is dead? are the kinds of questions you will find yourself asking for the first few hours, and even after that, the backstory of your family is told poorly), has picked up in the second act into the third where I can say that I am really enjoying it, and am finding it a breath of fresh air in the fantasy RPG genre. I'm so sick of saving the world, and this story is a much more low-key styled affair.

Overall, it's a pretty good game, but it should never have been a sequel to DA. Spin off? yes, sequel? no. I hope they bring back DA:O style of gameplay come DA3.

i agree with pretty much everything you're saying, especially in regards to reusing the same ****ing dungeons over and over, and the lack of proper exploring. i'm sure you were as disappointed with the deep roads section, after so much build up, about 30 minutes of farting around in a cave didn't really match expectations. i feel they really misunderstood the value and fun that is derived from exploration.

also i think it is time to do away with this floating weapons on your back nonsense. it looks ridiculous, especially when my mage was sitting on a chair with her staff inexplicably still on her back. on that subject IF YOU GIVE MY CHARACTER A SHORT SKIRT TO WEAR DON'T HAVE HER SIT WITH HER LEGS WIDE OPEN for gods sake!

And yeah, the Quinari section of the game is just great. Was really impressed with that.

i think most of the problems are more to do with being rushed rather than being dumbed down. the first game after all has been a big success on the consoles, it's not like the people didn't understand it.

 

[FGMPR]

Wasn't that an artistic decision rather than having anything to do with complexity though? Pretty sure i remember reading that bioware wanted the characters to have their own unique looks.

i've read theories that state the opposite, that fighting is more complex, knowing that there will almost definitely be another wave of enemies to fight, meaning you'll have to keep on your toes, adapt on the fly and not blow your load by using all your best skills right off the bat. i've no idea how valid this is though; i'm rubbish at fighting to be honest

would this have anything to do with dumbing it down for console users though? if it was too complicated, they simply wouldn't use it, would they? the game would be exactly the same for them whether or not it was included in the game.



http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...ains-Why-Dragon-Age-II-Is-Easier-Than-Origins

Supports what you are saying!



i remember reading this was an artistic decision; in any case i'm not sure how this has anything to do with being simplified for console gamers.



unless i'm misunderstanding what you're saying, you can place aoe's just the same as you could in the first game.



fair enough. in addition, i don't really like the new injury system; i thought they nailed that idea in the first game.



this was never an issue with planescape for instance. there's still a lot of scope to create a unique character within that restriction. hawke seems to be more of an effort to create a real entity to latch onto rather than the empty vessel that was the grey warden. i thought it worked very well in mass effect. hawke isn't at that level imo, but still makes for a good compromise between customisation and a believable character in the context of the story. i've no problems with this technique, definitely don't see it as being dumbed down




think you're being a bit harsh here (pretty much every conversation as a fair bit more than 3 dialog options), but i do agree to an extent. in fact i kinda just like the old AD&D games system - you have high intelligence, you get more dialog options. i think DA2 has different options depending on the context though (class, sex, party members, prior knowledge that you may have garnered through conversations with other npcs etc) do come in to play, so there's a fair bit of variety in how you play hawke




i agree with pretty much everything you're saying, especially in regards to reusing the same ****ing dungeons over and over, and the lack of proper exploring. i'm sure you were as disappointed with the deep roads section, after so much build up, about 30 minutes of farting around in a cave didn't really match expectations. i feel they really misunderstood the value and fun that is derived from exploration.

also i think it is time to do away with this floating weapons on your back nonsense. it looks ridiculous, especially when my mage was sitting on a chair with her staff inexplicably still on her back. on that subject IF YOU GIVE MY CHARACTER A SHORT SKIRT TO WEAR DON'T HAVE HER SIT WITH HER LEGS WIDE OPEN for gods sake!

And yeah, the Quinari section of the game is just great. Was really impressed with that.

i think most of the problems are more to do with being rushed rather than being dumbed down. the first game after all has been a big success on the consoles, it's not like the people didn't understand it.

I still haven't figured out how to reply with the multiquote function. I think they need to find a simpler way of being able to do it)

Anyhow, you make a few good points, although I also have a retort or two ...

(sorry for the inevitable dog's breakfast below. I'll try and make it neat.)

-Random spawning of mobs means that the crucial strategic element that comes along with carefully placing your mages behind your tanks etc is thrown out the window


i've read theories that state the opposite, that fighting is more complex, knowing that there will almost definitely be another wave of enemies to fight, meaning you'll have to keep on your toes, adapt on the fly and not blow your load by using all your best skills right off the bat. i've no idea how valid this is though; i'm rubbish at fighting to be honest

I can't agree that spawning mobs makes fighting more complex. At best it could be regarded as a different skill, I suppose, but the idea of planning and then enacting a strategy will always seem more complex to me than having to react to something that you have no control over.
------------------------------------------------------------------

-You can no longer stack command inputs for your characters

would this have anything to do with dumbing it down for console users though? if it was too complicated, they simply wouldn't use it, would they? the game would be exactly the same for them whether or not it was included in the game.


The thing is, is that by stacking commands, you are chaining together spells and actions and using strategy and skill-based prediction to make sure things happen at the right moment. DA 2 forces your hand and cuts this aspect down into tiny little sections. The sped up gameplay contributes to this, also.
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-No overhead view

i remember reading this was an artistic decision; in any case i'm not sure how this has anything to do with being simplified for console gamers.

Yeah, I read that too. I just always though it was PR talk, and still do. Even if the decision was made in order to save having to render the world in places that they felt they didn't want to, have to or have time to do, it's still a shortcut, and one that has led to a restricted view of the battle at hand. I believe if this wasn't such a rushed game, then we would have seen it in the PC version.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


-You can no longer choose where to place your AOE spells, so now they can't miss

unless i'm misunderstanding what you're saying, you can place aoe's just the same as you could in the first game.

In DA2, you place AOE spells by clicking on an enemy. The spell won't activate until you've clicked on an enemy correctly. In DA:O, however, AOE spells are cast into an area, no matter what is there, so instead of being able to miss with your spells when you mistime your attack, DA2 makes it so you can't fail, and you can't waste precious mana on a bad decision.

And that's what it really comes down to... Bioware are limiting the avenue's to failure by cutting down their combat system into a shadow of what it once was. I hate this approach with a passion.

Other than that, you make good points in regards to the character build and conversation system (perhaps I was too harsh - I do kind of like my rude, arrogant, always horny bi-sexual male Hawke, I just want more options.), as well as the issue with class restriction. A single class can be as complex as many classes put together.

 

[IanG]

Yes.

-Limited special weapons or armor for anyone other than the main character

Done for aesthetic and characterisation reasons. Plus their armour upgrades and you can still customise stats through weapons and items unlike ME2.

-Random spawning of mobs means that the crucial strategic element that comes along with carefully placing your mages behind your tanks etc is thrown out the window

No it just means you have to place them differently and be prepared to change positions quickly.

-You can no longer stack command inputs for your characters

A queue? There wasn't one in DAO.

-The game is flat out easier. Even easy in DA:O on PC was a challenge in parts

Easy and normal may be easier but hard and nightmare are harder. Hard is about the equivalent of nightmare on DAO and nightmare is much harder.

-No overhead view

Done because there were issues balancing the difficulties and maybe because they didn't have enough resources to do the separate textures that were apoparently required. Not because of dumbing down.

-Limited special weapons or armor for anyone other than the main character

Done for aesthetic and characterisation reasons.

-Random spawning of mobs means that the crucial strategic element that comes along with carefully placing your mages behind your tanks etc is thrown out the window

No it just means you have to place them differently and be prepared to change positions quickly.

-You can no longer stack command inputs for your characters

A queue? There wasn't one in DAO.

-The game is flat out easier. Even easy in DA:O on PC was a challenge in parts

Easy and normal may be easier but hard and nightmare are harder. Hard is about the equivalent of nightmare on DAO and nightmare is much harder.

-You can no longer choose where to place your AOE spells, so now they can't miss

No in DA2 you have to place them more carefully, ie the opposite of dumbing down.

-No team damage except on nightmare difficulty, which is incredibly cheap and frustrating to play

They had issues with balancing it apparently, I agree it should be on hard but like I said above hard is more than hard enough so it hardly qualifies as dumbing down.

-Restricted to being a human

Done for story reasons and probably because of the VO cost. Plus there are plenty of rpgs where you are restricted in character.

-No skills are able to be placed into the conversation system. This is something I've always enjoyed about playing RPG's, but Bioware on their warpath to rip the "RP" from RPG have seen it fit to give you three conversation options and leave it at that. Where as before each character you make could be radically different, now Hawke is pretty much Hawke

In DA2 you actually have to role play to persuade characters much more than just simply placing a point in a coercion skill and leave it at that. Doing it that way is hardly an exercise in good role playing. And there are more than just 3 dialogue options, at some points there are 5-6. Plenty of options to role play Hawke, my first Hawke has come alive for me far more than any of my Warden characters did or even Shepard for that matter.

 

[Valentino Dmitri]

I still haven't figured out how to reply with the multiquote function. I think they need to find a simpler way of being able to do it)

Sorry about taking so long to reply; I did write a lengthy post in which I agreed with a lot of what you said, except my login timed out and when I tried to repost it was all gone

Just with the multiquote, don't worry it took me a while too, haha. there is a Wrap Quote Tags button in the reply toolbar, just wrap those around the individual paragraphs you would like to quote. You will have to remove the initial quote tags that appear (ie: the ones that look like

), though.

On the rest of your post, I think I see where you are coming from when you say ‘consolisation’. With Dragon Age 2 as an example, both the console and PC versions are effectively the same game, with only the control input differing. It’s a compromise that isn’t quite as satisfying as if Bioware had fully gone one way or the other (you mention some bits and pieces you’d like to have seen – a proper isometric view, queuing, etc, while a console orientated approach may have taken its cues from the likes of Demon’s Souls, God of War, Bayonetta etc). That’s without touching on the power difference that presently exists between consoles and PC (as an aside I’m hoping some really attractive PC games are on the horizon, if only to push forward a new generation of consoles; not into this whole motion control tomfoolery).

Ideally it would be great to see two teams within bioware taking the action parts of the game in different directions for their respective platforms. I guess it comes down to how much time and resources Bioware have to work with – there are obviously a lot of cut corners with DA2. I’d love to see what they could do within the Dragon Age universe if given a Diablo III kind of window. In any case, it will be interested to see how combat is handled in Dragon Age 3, upon it’s Christmas 2011 release

Jabso and I were more talking about the more obnoxious members of PC gaming’s online community who spout Tracey Grimshaw style hyperbole at anything console related. DA2 was largely condemned before it was even released for apparently being dumbed down so that console gamers could understand it. The irony being of course that DA2 is a rough diamond and there are many legitimate criticisms (much like the ones you posted) that can be directed at it.

On another topic, have you had a chance to finish the game, by the way? I am interested to read your thoughts on the final half hour or so, and the whole game in general.

PS: just with the AOE spells, in the Xbox you can definitely place them where you like, regardless of whether there is an enemy within the radius – maybe you’re experiencing a glitch or some such?

 

[MF]

I'm almost finished it now and can't see how it's been dumbed down at all.

If by dumbed down they mean that you no longer have to spend 20 minutes after every quest just to make sure that each member of your team has the best possible armour combinations on then boo hoo. I like customizations and what not as much as the next stats nerd but there's a ****ing limit to how much time I want to spend figuring out which outfit makes my female companions show more cleavage.

As far as the combat goes I actually find DA2 a bit more strategic than DAO. I find myself having to think outside the box when position my characters. Using doorways and stairs as 'choke points'. Of course... If I was too dumb to figure out how to do any of this I'd probably just complain that I can't do everything the same as I could in DA:O because "It's all been dumbed down for console players".

My only real gripe with this game is the re-used environments. It's both lazy and annoying, yet unsurprising given EA are in control now.

Overall, I like it just as much as the first game so far.

 

[woopedazz]

I'm almost finished it now and can't see how it's been dumbed down at all.

If by dumbed down they mean that you no longer have to spend 20 minutes after every quest just to make sure that each member of your team has the best possible armour combinations on then boo hoo. I like customizations and what not as much as the next stats nerd but there's a ****ing limit to how much time I want to spend figuring out which outfit makes my female companions show more cleavage.

As far as the combat goes I actually find DA2 a bit more strategic than DAO. I find myself having to think outside the box when position my characters. Using doorways and stairs as 'choke points'. Of course... If I was too dumb to figure out how to do any of this I'd probably just complain that I can't do everything the same as I could in DA:O because "It's all been dumbed down for console players".

My only real gripe with this game is the re-used environments. It's both lazy and annoying, yet unsurprising given EA are in control now.

Overall, I like it just as much as the first game so far.

Dumbed down in that combat takes no real effort on the PC. Console wise controls are always more difficult when required to control multiple characters. For console it's pretty much the same, but on PC it is like playing lvl 1 of tetris where every single damn block is the line. DA:O was difficult on the PC if you weren't rocking 3 mages and played it on highest difficulty.

Now you kind of just set them up and trigger the event and click every now and then. Played one of the later (and harder) battles at a mates place last night on the hardest mode without knowing anything about the game and it was a walk in the park. Not one character died and I was able to read what skills did what during the fight and still win easily.

Such a shame.

 

[IanG]

Dumbed down in that combat takes no real effort on the PC. Console wise controls are always more difficult when required to control multiple characters. For console it's pretty much the same, but on PC it is like playing lvl 1 of tetris where every single damn block is the line. DA:O was difficult on the PC if you weren't rocking 3 mages and played it on highest difficulty.

Now you kind of just set them up and trigger the event and click every now and then. Played one of the later (and harder) battles at a mates place last night on the hardest mode without knowing anything about the game and it was a walk in the park. Not one character died and I was able to read what skills did what during the fight and still win easily.

Such a shame.

This is comparing it to DAO? Sorry but on the PC nightmare on DAO was a walk in the park by the end with the right tactics programming even combat on nightmare difficulty could run itself. By contrast even hard difficulty on DA2 is significantly harder than nightmare on DAO.

 

[BobbyMorri]

i find it quite hard on hard, and normally have to change it to normal in difficult parts. Normal is too easy though(and casual is laughably easy). i dont micromanage my party to well,.

im enjoying it atm. Up to the 2nd Act. the revival bug during a fight is annoying as all hell though.