DT 2011 Mids Thread

[RustNeverSleeps]

Why can't that be said about any of the other cats players?

I don't think Bartel will cop the tag if that's what you mean. He may even get more game time in the middle, he hardly started in the centre square last season.

His scores in games that Ablett missed since 2007: 96, 108, 139, 49, 108, 94, 147, 144.

One poor game in there, yes. But the rest aren't bad.

Jimmy is a DT gun. He was averaging 111 before injuring his elbow last year and as your stats show, the absence of Ablett hasn't reduced his scoring ability.

A slimmer Ling will continue in the midfield as the preeminent tagger with a fit Joel Corey and perhaps Simon Hogan given the run-with roles.

Jimmy is rarely given run-with roles as he provides more team value with his long kicking, strong marking, clearance work and general footy smarts. The fact that Jimmy managed a 105 average given he played the second half with a bung arm says even more about his DT credentials and ability to play through injury.

The main question mark for mine is how a new coach and new game plan will affect the entire Geelong list. We will have to wait for some pre-season matches to assess the impact collectively and individually.

 

[Dunn - Well Done]

Jimmy only managed ~97/98 avg after his injury (not including finals, because i see that as a total different game)

 

[Wheedus]

I'd picked up on this stat a few days ago, imo Bartel will thrive without Ablett in the middle. Geelong still have a good cohort of midfielders in Selwood, Chappy, Bartel, Corey and others. Jimmy will have good support around him, as long as he is over his elbow (is he?) then he will be in my team.

I've just learnt Benny Jacobs has glandular, this has thrown a spanner into the works. I'm going for overall ranking this year over leagues (a good team will still win league matches!) and dual position cover is vital. Jacobs was my link between midfield and defence along with Hibberd.

So I'm looking out for a dual positioned rookie (middle and back), anyone on the radar so far this pre-season?

Heppel

 

[Benno_900]

Jimmy only managed ~97/98 avg after his injury

What is your point here?

I only agree with you on the impact of a new coach. But that goes for all Geelong players.

 

[Cruiser23]

Well i havnt watched much pre season so i cant say too much in regards to Jimmy, but i have a few question marks, and when selecting premiums i dont want any question marks.

Well i guess your forward line is nice and stacked with mid-tier/rookie selections then...

No Ablett means 3rd in line for a tag, if he chops one week he will be tagged the next week (would rarely happen with ablett in the side).

True, though name a premium midfielder who isn't in the same boat? Swan is out of this world so he's irrelevant here. You could probably mount a case for Pendlebury though who knows how teams will attack the Pies this year. More emphasis may be put on Swan, or teams may just play him one-on-one and put even more thought into Pendlebury, Didak and Thomas. Plus, how many taggers these days have the ability to matchup with Bartel?

Only avg 103~ if you give him his normal avg of tackles after injurying his elbow. So he finished the season quite poorly besides finals.

Absolutely irrelevant, how can you think his elbow injury solely affects his tackles. He was at 110 playing a fair bit across half back before he got injured. It clearly affected him, physically and mentally yet still managed 97 over the last 7 games where the Cats were pretty much assured of a top 4 spot. You know you are playing finals, but carrying an injury, are you really going to go out there and push the limits? You'd be putting in effort but at the same time nursing yourself through, keeping your match fitness up for finals time.

His role, i dont see any other geelong midfielder with the capability to tag or play a good one on one role (Could be used like D.Cross more). Ling out of the midfield could hurt just as much as Ablett missing, infact maybe even more.

Ling is not out of the midfield if you read his interview only a week or so ago. Kelly and Corey are options, i very much doubt Bartel will be used given his strength in other areas. Scott has said, as most of us should know, that he's hoping to introduce a defensive gameplan similar to the Pies last year, Pies never really had a midfield tagger. Wellingham did a few jobs but he ran off his opponent, it wasn't a Clinton Jones/Cameron Ling type tag. Scott may see man on man as the best form of defense disregarding a midfield tagger altogether.

Geelong on the down, they arnt going to be anything special and id be very suprised if they made the top 4 or even top 5. I have them 6th, but there list is starting to look weak and very shaky. We know how points correlate with success.

List isn't looking weak, they've got arguably the most underrated recruiting in the business. They've still got numerous premiership players and the new coach, from reports, seems to have rejuvenated a group that somewhat looked flat last year. If you are correct though, this may play into Bartel's favour because he'll be on his toes all the time. Bartel has a very impressive record in finals, you say they are totally irrelevant, not true. It shows who has the ability to stand up. If the Cats are fighting for a top 4 spot you will see Bartel leading the charge, you can bank on that.

Geelong need to find something new other than the same old same old midfield. Gone are the days Bartel, Corey, Ling, Ablett, Selwood rack em up. They have lost there most impacting fastest midfielder and he must be replaced, bartel aint that player. SJ, Varcoe, Enright could be given time to add something else.

Relevance? Ablett 'must' be replaced?

The coach, geelong have been renowned for super super high disposals. They now may change that with the coaches new strategy something to watch closely.

I'll give you this to some extent, it's probably safe to say the Cats players won't be as dominant DT wise though that's a generalization. There will be players who are able to stay true to their form and some will be able to improve. For me Bartel has a game to work around the supposed decrease of possessions. He's not really a player who relies on the dinky little handballs that players like Ablett, Selwood, Corey etc are/were renowned for in the Cats midfield. He has a positive kick:handball ratio, he's a quality clearance player that does like to get the ball moving forward.

To many question marks and doubts. Personally cant see him avg more than 105 looking at his back end of the season. Avg of ~97 isnt good enough.

Also age, he peaked early and has been on a downward spiral that has been very linear since his peak.

97 in the last 7 games for a guy with a busted elbow, keeping in mind the Cats were pretty settled inside the top 4. Come finals, even with a busted elbow he goes out and averages 125 in his 3 games.

Downward spiral? now, for some reason you are clutching at straws. The age factor is irrelevant too, he's 27.

From what you've said, your thoughts, i can presume there is absolutely no way you are considering Selwood right?

 

[Dunn - Well Done]

What is your point here?

I only agree with you on the impact of a new coach. But that goes for all Geelong players.

I think it was said above he avg 104 or something, so just correcting it really.

Well i guess your forward line is nice and stacked with mid-tier/rookie selections then...

Well there arnt any secure forwards, there are other secure mids. Comparing the two was silly.

True, though name a premium midfielder who isn't in the same boat? Swan is out of this world so he's irrelevant here. You could probably mount a case for Pendlebury though who knows how teams will attack the Pies this year. More emphasis may be put on Swan, or teams may just play him one-on-one and put even more thought into Pendlebury, Didak and Thomas. Plus, how many taggers these days have the ability to matchup with Bartel?

All im saying is that Bartel will more likley decrease his avg than increase his avg because of increased tagging time or one on one. Plenty of taggers can match him, he doesnt play that tall marking forward now as what he did in his brownlow year and the year before. In the last 2 years hes either played a bullocking L.Hayes type role or off the HBF/Wing.


Absolutely irrelevant, how can you think his elbow injury solely affects his tackles. He was at 110 playing a fair bit across half back before he got injured. It clearly affected him, physically and mentally yet still managed 97 over the last 7 games where the Cats were pretty much assured of a top 4 spot. You know you are playing finals, but carrying an injury, are you really going to go out there and push the limits? You'd be putting in effort but at the same time nursing yourself through, keeping your match fitness up for finals time.

You may have have seen another post by me saying that it probably affected his tackling, marking, mindset ect. Just giving my view of both sides to the coin and weighing up which argument stands stronger.

His elbow couldnt have been to bad, he didnt exactly get rested for finals and considering geelong were pretty much assured 2nd you wouldve thought resting a superstar wouldve been a good idea, but they didnt.


Ling is not out of the midfield if you read his interview only a week or so ago. Kelly and Corey are options, i very much doubt Bartel will be used given his strength in other areas. Scott has said, as most of us should know, that he's hoping to introduce a defensive gameplan similar to the Pies last year, Pies never really had a midfield tagger. Wellingham did a few jobs but he ran off his opponent, it wasn't a Clinton Jones/Cameron Ling type tag. Scott may see man on man as the best form of defense disregarding a midfield tagger altogether.

This view purely came when he played on Hayes in the GF last year. He has been used before and probably more than Corey, as i said will do more one on one work. If Ling is back in the midfield than this point can be dismissed.


List isn't looking weak, they've got arguably the most underrated recruiting in the business. They've still got numerous premiership players and the new coach, from reports, seems to have rejuvenated a group that somewhat looked flat last year. If you are correct though, this may play into Bartel's favour because he'll be on his toes all the time. Bartel has a very impressive record in finals, you say they are totally irrelevant, not true. It shows who has the ability to stand up. If the Cats are fighting for a top 4 spot you will see Bartel leading the charge, you can bank on that.

Finals shows potential if you play better than about minus 10 of your home and away avg than your going extremely well. Scores are naturally less in finals, which is why i dont look at them for all players. Im not going to pick and choose which ones to look at, unless i see a player playing a different role, Gilbert is an example of this and i want to see how they scored playing that role +10.

Relevance? Ablett 'must' be replaced?

I'll give you this to some extent, it's probably safe to say the Cats players won't be as dominant DT wise though that's a generalization. There will be players who are able to stay true to their form and some will be able to improve. For me Bartel has a game to work around the supposed decrease of possessions. He's not really a player who relies on the dinky little handballs that players like Ablett, Selwood, Corey etc are/were renowned for in the Cats midfield. He has a positive kick:handball ratio, he's a quality clearance player that does like to get the ball moving forward.

97 in the last 7 games for a guy with a busted elbow, keeping in mind the Cats were pretty settled inside the top 4. Come finals, even with a busted elbow he goes out and averages 125 in his 3 games.

See above, couldnt have been to bad considering his finals campaign, surely the cats wouldve rested him if it was anything to bad at the time.

Downward spiral? now, for some reason you are clutching at straws. The age factor is irrelevant too, he's 27.

Just looking at every factor, but IMO from watching Jimmy his style and early dominance, i mean he won a brownlow when he was like 23 or something, so he peaked very early. Unsure how old Cooney was but not many win it that young.

From what you've said, your thoughts, i can presume there is absolutely no way you are considering Selwood right?

No way considering Selwood, he is the last premium mid id pick, didnt pick him last year either and that was a good decision. However brought him in after his price drop.

Another thing to add which is why im arguing against bartel is that im looking at picking 2 premium cat forwards from the start. Move one (when round 6) through DPP to mids (Chappy) and if they both get off to ridiculous starts which is possible for these types of players than ill be well ahead of the pack. Will also be a calculated uniqueness to the team, not many will start with both because of round 6.
Thought in Bold

 

[normski]

Thought I’d throw up Tambling for discussion.


Never really posted consistent scores, but he’s priced at about 60 and I could easily see him ave around 85 this year for two reasons. First, he’s pencilled in for a half back spot and averaged 90 there in the past. Second, the crows like to throw it around down back, which means some cheap ball should come his way. Worry is though that craig said he isn’t guaranteed a starting spot, so he may not play at the start of the season or may start and flop and not be seen again. Sure he’s no keeper, but if does start and averages around 85, he’ll be handy to upgrade to ablett after round 9 or pendles after round 13. Money spent better elsewhere some might say. Ok, I substitute Tambling with a rookie and have about 140k to spend. Given my current structure, the only real way I could spend the money is to upgrade Adcock to someone like Enright or Connors , or upgrade Fraser to ryder. The question is would I better off over the first 9 rounds with Tambling/Adcock /Fraser or rookie/Enright(Connors etc)/fraser or rookie/adcock/ryder. Thoughts?

 

[Dreambomber]

McGlynn.

Proven himself capable of achieving big scores but has been hampered by injured throughout his short career.

With a solid preseason under his belt and a bit of luck, can he pull together a consistent season in 2011 with the occassional huge games?

Priced at 356,200 with an average of 85.8 in 2010.

Thoughts?

 

[normski]

I think it was said above he avg 104 or something, so just correcting it really.



No way considering Selwood, he is the last premium mid id pick, didnt pick him last year either and that was a good decision. However brought him in after his price drop.

Another thing to add which is why im arguing against bartel is that im looking at picking 2 premium cat forwards from the start. Move one (when round 6) through DPP to mids (Chappy) and if they both get off to ridiculous starts which is possible for these types of players than ill be well ahead of the pack. Will also be a calculated uniqueness to the team, not many will start with both because of round 6.
Thought in Bold

Cunning strategy

Risky though. SJ's been burning it up on the track, had his first full preseason for a while, and would be well worth the punt. Could backfire spectacularlly as, correct me if I'm wrong as I dont have the stats, SJ's not known for quick starts. Guess you can take these sorts of chances when you have any number of teams

 

[Dunn - Well Done]

Cunning strategy

Risky though. SJ's been burning it up on the track, had his first full preseason for a while, and would be well worth the punt. Could backfire spectacularlly as, correct me if I'm wrong as I dont have the stats, SJ's not known for quick starts. Guess you can take these sorts of chances when you have any number of teams

I was trying to keep it to myself as much as possible, but the argument brought at the main reason as to why ive gone cold on Bartel.

Yes SJ is known for slowish starts, not overly strong stat against his starts. 2 out of the last 3 years he has started slow.

But maybe that is due to the preseasons, hes never really done one. I think SJ will step up big time next year and go close to 105 at least 100.

 

[dewey13]

Which 2 out of Conca, Gaff, Wallis and Polec?

 

[DrTomSwift]

Which 2 out of Conca, Gaff, Wallis and Polec?

In point scoring ability it is:
Gaff
Wallis
Conca
Polec

You've then got to work out who will get the most games early.

 

[formula16]

what are some cheap midfield midpricers this year ? (200-300k)

 

[timskul]

what are some cheap midfield midpricers this year ? (200-300k)

Callan Ward. that is all. had him locked in til i changed my team structure to get another premium in. But others are Brodie Martin, Josh P Kennedy might sneak in under 300k aswell, looks a good bet

 

[yogibbear]

what are some cheap midfield midpricers this year ? (200-300k)

Don't get ANY of them... but err...

I'd say Brodie Martin looks okay. (But be very wary of adelaide hype on here, as they have done it every year for various players and are very hit and miss).

Everyone else AVOID.

Personally i can see rookies scoring more than most midfield midpricers.

With the byes you can't fit in any collingwood midpricers (Beams/Sidebottom/Blair/etc.) easily...

 

[rdangelo]

No one has mentioned Bennell (158k). Will he play in the Suns midfield or forward line? Only chat about Swallow & Gaff around this price range.

 

[blues4flag]

I'm personally staying away from Geelong players, at least until I get a gauge of them in the preseason. While the Ablett departure is interesting, the impact of a new coach is probably more so. Will they continue with a similar gameplan will they go in a new direction altogether?

Even if they attempt to play the same high possession game, I can't see them being top of the table. They've be thereabouts for so long they're due to drop, compounded by the Ablett departure. The excitement of a new coach might do a bit to offset that but time will tell.

AFAIC Geelong players are an unknown quantity at present and should be approached with care.

 

[Blues_FC]

No one has mentioned Bennell (158k). Will he play in the Suns midfield or forward line? Only chat about Swallow & Gaff around this price range.

Not sure if Bennell has the body to play too many games this season. There are better (and cheaper) options at GC.

 

[Chism]

what are some cheap midfield midpricers this year ? (200-300k)

Brad Sheppard would be the only player in this $$$ range i would touch. Will play a heap of games for West Coast this year and did well in NAB Cup yesterday. Classy ball winner who uses the ball well.

His starting price of 237k will only go in one direction and that is ^^^^^^^^.

 

[Richo83]

Thought I’d throw up Tambling for discussion.?

Having Tambling in your team should immediately disqualify you from the competition on grounds that you're either a waste of time to everyone or are trolling dreamteam. Coming from a guy who has watched him every week for his career and willed him to be a gun, he's just not a dter. Too inconsistent, too injury prone. Plays a flashy game which doesn't suit dreamteam. He's also in a new team. There are so many rookies you can save money on and then with the saved cash, upgrade them to Ablett. Oh and I'd rather the other non-Tambling option. Or some money in the bank. I'm seriously thinking about starting the season with 200k handy, then using one trade to upgrade a rookie to premium status. But no Tambles. We won a trade for once. Booya!

 

[Richo83]

what are some cheap midfield midpricers this year ? (200-300k)

There's a good reason why no-one's mentioning mid-pricers of all positions and that's because there just isn't much value. Sure, you can buy Sidebottom, one of the few amongst a wasteland. BUT is it better than a rookie? Because that's the question you've got to ask yourself everytime you think of getting a midpricer, could this guy's job be done by someone cheaper? Almost always, it's yes. Think about Tambling, maye average 85. But Swallow may average 75. I'm not spending 200k on ten points.

 

[Dunn - Well Done]

^ Swallow is a bit of an exception (you picked the best draftee that i have ever seen at 17 or 18). However Swallow only has 4 price rises before round 10. That means he might only make 80k and thats if he plays every single game and doesnt get injured. Tambling could also increase his price by 80k and be an easier upgrade to Ablett at Round 10 than Swallow.

 

[WeninRome]

Callan Ward. that is all. had him locked in til i changed my team structure to get another premium in. But others are Brodie Martin, Josh P Kennedy might sneak in under 300k aswell, looks a good bet

Callan Ward is serious value this year, if he can stay on the park.

 

[Richo83]

There's no assurance that Tambling will earn more money than Swallow. I also said that even though certain players rise not that greatly, a war chest is a good idea to bridge price gaps. Which is what I've done with a 200k kitty. Therefore, Swallow only needs to earn 100k in four games, Ablett to drop 30k and you've got a upgrade in one trade. That's what I'm seriously considering. Tambling is a list clogger, in dreamteam and reality.

 

[Dunn - Well Done]

There's no assurance that Tambling will earn more money than Swallow. I also said that even though certain players rise not that greatly, a war chest is a good idea to bridge price gaps. Which is what I've done with a 200k kitty. Therefore, Swallow only needs to earn 100k in four games, Ablett to drop 30k and you've got a upgrade in one trade. That's what I'm seriously considering. Tambling is a list clogger, in dreamteam and reality.

Well thats a dumb idea if youve purely saved 200k for R10. This means you wont be trading before this round and also means youll be about 500 points behind the avg DTer at this point in time.

You have to remember Swallow is priced at 40 and Tambling is priced at 57. By saying that Swallow can avg 75 than he improves by 35 points but only has 4 round increments before R10 as mentioned. Tambling has 6 i think.

Tambling avg 89 the year before and is now in a much superior side.

edit: not saying Tambling is a good pick.

But im getting back to your point, you said there are no good midpricers and basically compared Tambling 85 avg to Swallow 75 avg. If Tambling is in the best 21 than he could be quite an okay pick and in your case i would prefer Tambling with those avgs. Midpricers are good picks if they improve by 15-20 points, cant dispute that.