DT Rucks 2012

[Taylor]

The things being said about Sandilands this year (old, falling apart, injury prone) were said of Dean Cox a couple of years ago after he had a injury riddled season. The next year, last year, he performed again.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the same from Sandilands.

 

[Mattrox]

According the the Match Preview on the AFL website Sandi won't be playing because of his calf.

 

[Cizzler]

The things being said about Sandilands this year (old, falling apart, injury prone) were said of Dean Cox a couple of years ago after he had a injury riddled season. The next year, last year, he performed again.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the same from Sandilands.

Totally agree.

He's had a full preseason and at this stage is a certainty for Round 1. Could be worth the risk..

 

[Keystone agony]

^ Hasnt had full preseason

I agree though i think he has upside. The thing is he will be rested, no question.

With the hawks injury to Bailey im strongly considering 4 rookies, hahah. Being serious.

 

[CrozaN]

^ Hasnt had full preseason

I agree though i think he has upside. The thing is he will be rested, no question.

With the hawks injury to Bailey im strongly considering 4 rookies, hahah. Being serious.

4 rookie rucks?......

 

[JDWCE]

Whoah, come again !?

 

[Keystone agony]

For me Redden has good scoring ability along with Giles. Adam Pattison or Broc McCaulay as the hawks main ruck in there with Orren Stephenson who avg 80 + tackles last year in VFL and could still be the cats number one ruck.

By picking Pattison or Rowe it means you can upgrade a midfielder to a ruckman. This has never been allowed before and could be a great way to get some top end premium rucks easily.

 

[JDWCE]

I see where you're coming from but realistically your scoring is going to be way down in the rucks department and Im not sure (even with the extra cash) if you'd be able to make such a drastic amount back up with upgrades to other areas.

for example

Cox should average 105 - 110
Giles say 60/65
Redden probably around 50 - 60
Big O maybe 50 ?

I know that is going to cost about 400k more but you are getting a gauranteed (pretty much, barring injury) premo score of over 100 in cox and then depending on form and team line ups, you can choose your ruck. So lets say that combo scores you about 170

With 4 rookies you are looking at closer to this :

Giles 60/65
Redden 50-60
Big O 50
Mccaulley/Lowden probably about 50

Scoring capacity is looking at about 100 - 120, maybe 130 if you're lucky.

With the extra 400 k you can go a mid rookie to a top end premium. Mid rookie should score about 70, premo 110.

So you are gaining (depending on the rookie) about 40.

I guess it comes down to what you think ruck rookies are going to average but we rarely see anything more than 60 from ruck rookies and mid rookies can average anywhere from 50 to 90 so I guess it could turn out to be a much of a muchness but I know I would prefer to be looking at a premium with the rookie rucks rather than all 4 (although I know you were probably just speculating considering the cash saved)

 

[dylan123]

For me Redden has good scoring ability along with Giles. Adam Pattison or Broc McCaulay as the hawks main ruck in there with Orren Stephenson who avg 80 + tackles last year in VFL and could still be the cats number one ruck.

By picking Pattison or Rowe it means you can upgrade a midfielder to a ruckman. This has never been allowed before and could be a great way to get some top end premium rucks easily.

There's asking for trouble and then there's asking for trouble!!

Redden - Has shown pretty good scoring ability, can't really fault him.
Giles - Has shown a decent scoring ability in the short time his played in each of the matches but will have a number of guys that could lower that ruck time meaning he won't score as much as he would if he was the solo ruck.

McCauley - Couldn't believe it when I found out he was 25 last year. Is an alright tap ruckman but his actual footy skills are quite poor (from the few occasions I've seen him) and seems to be quite behind in development. For Brisbane to delist him with only Leuenberger on the list at the time must say something about how little they rate him. Could play but I wouldn't expect decent scores from him.

Stephenson - Prior to the NAB cup games I was hot but his hardly shown anything so far and at this stage I'd be happy with a 60 average from him, won't get anywhere near 80 imo.

The issue I have with 4 rookie rucks is they're not going to make cash extremely fast, the difference between them and Cox is huge (possibly 1.5-2 downgrades which will take its time). So after maybe round 6-8 you might be able to bring Cox in (3 trades later) and then you're going to cop a bye from him a few weeks later and further rely on your rookie rucks.

I'd much rather a fwd/back/mid rookie over a 4th rookie ruck as I believe the first option would provide a far better score and be a better cash cow.

Each is their own, it seem a lot like the 3rr which I'm not a fan of but I guess it comes down to the structure of your side and what you expect each of the rookie rucks to score (along with the other rookies/premium you'd be switching around).

 

[Keystone agony]

There's asking for trouble and then there's asking for trouble!!

Redden - Has shown pretty good scoring ability, can't really fault him.

Giles - Has shown a decent scoring ability in the short time his played in each of the matches but will have a number of guys that could lower that ruck time meaning he won't score as much as he would if he was the solo ruck.

Is brogan going to play or be ready early in the year?

McCauley - Couldn't believe it when I found out he was 25 last year. Is an alright tap ruckman but his actual footy skills are quite poor (from the few occasions I've seen him) and seems to be quite behind in development. For Brisbane to delist him with only Leuenberger on the list at the time must say something about how little they rate him. Could play but I wouldn't expect decent scores from him.

McCaulay scored some decent numbers last year. But yes i couldnt believe the lions delisted him i think he had played his full 3 years on the rookie list? and also they thought he had attitude problems.

Stephenson - Prior to the NAB cup games I was hot but his hardly shown anything so far and at this stage I'd be happy with a 60 average from him, won't get anywhere near 80 imo.

Yeh i never thought he would get 80 like many did. I still think he can get you a 60. I personally dont think hes the number 1 cat ruck but it doesnt take much to change that. Hes close i would say. Although he is slow, gets around the ground poorly, purely just a tap ruckman IMO.

The issue I have with 4 rookie rucks is they're not going to make cash extremely fast, the difference between them and Cox is huge (possibly 1.5-2 downgrades which will take its time). So after maybe round 6-8 you might be able to bring Cox in (3 trades later) and then you're going to cop a bye from him a few weeks later and further rely on your rookie rucks.

I'd much rather a fwd/back/mid rookie over a 4th rookie ruck as I believe the first option would provide a far better score and be a better cash cow.

Each is their own, it seem a lot like the 3rr which I'm not a fan of but I guess it comes down to the structure of your side and what you expect each of the rookie rucks to score (along with the other rookies/premium you'd be switching around).

The thing is you dont need your rookie rucks to score quickly because you can now trade a midfielder for a ruck (Ill use the hot name from the weekend in Clay Smith as an example). By starting a R/F that has a decent chance of playing Pattison/Rowe come to mind as mature aged players. Than you can switch them to the forwards, switch a C/F (Treloar, Zorko, Hampton, Smith, Couch, Kerridge ect) to the mids and trade Clay Smith for Dean Cox.

I really doubt i have the balls to do it however i love the felling i get of being different and unique this year and there is some merit there. Ive been really really impressed with reddens ability to score. He knows how to find the pill, not many rucks do. Hes the outright number one ruck with Stewart/Westhoff as chop outs i dare say. Lobbe returns mid year, Renouf has just hurt his knee and we don't know the severity.

At the end of the day Dylan i reckon we will have the same 4 rucks

 

[dylan123]

The thing is you dont need your rookie rucks to score quickly because you can now trade a midfielder for a ruck (Ill use the hot name from the weekend in Clay Smith as an example). By starting a R/F that has a decent chance of playing Pattison/Rowe come to mind as mature aged players. Than you can switch them to the forwards, switch a C/F (Treloar, Zorko, Hampton, Smith, Couch, Kerridge ect) to the mids and trade Clay Smith for Dean Cox.

That is something I haven't really considered however, there are only a couple of based price rucks that have the dual position such as you've mentioned in Pattison and Rowe. Now the scoring potential for these guys is going to be pretty low I feel, switching them into the fwds is pretty dangerous as there's a good chance you may have to play your F9 or at least have them emergency whereas in the ruck they're safely locked away in a "dead" position pretty much.

So you either wait a few more weeks for them to gain cash and the possibility of actually having to play them or trade them off the following week to another forward rookie which wouldn't be so bad (but to time that all would be pretty hard!).

I really doubt i have the balls to do it however i love the felling i get of being different and unique this year and there is some merit there. Ive been really really impressed with reddens ability to score. He knows how to find the pill, not many rucks do. Hes the outright number one ruck with Stewart/Westhoff as chop outs i dare say. Lobbe returns mid year, Renouf has just hurt his knee and we don't know the severity.

At the end of the day Dylan i reckon we will have the same 4 rucks

There is plenty of options to be different and unique in the backline this year imo.

If you guys have done the "numbers" and believe you can get up from going 3/4 rookies then go for it but I wouldn't go for it because of the fact it's unqiue (not saying that that is your reason either).

It's funny that this year looks to be the first year I'll be going two premium rucks (don't really count Cox as a premium last year at an avg of 84) when everyone is considering a rookie or two to start yet it's be the opposite way around for myself in previous years (and last year was the first year I went for a premium ruck to begin with in Sandilands (well at least since 2009)).

 

[Keystone agony]

That is something I haven't really considered however, there are only a couple of based price rucks that have the dual position such as you've mentioned in Pattison and Rowe. Now the scoring potential for these guys is going to be pretty low I feel, switching them into the fwds is pretty dangerous as there's a good chance you may have to play your F9 or at least have them emergency whereas in the ruck they're safely locked away in a "dead" position pretty much.

So you either wait a few more weeks for them to gain cash and the possibility of actually having to play them or trade them off the following week to another forward rookie which wouldn't be so bad (but to time that all would be pretty hard!).

I think its something you have to consider as its a change to the game that we have known for so many years. The whole trading/strategy is different. I really hope one of the "Famous Dters" does something along these lines so we can atleast follow them. We have never been able to trade the money making/higher scoring midfield rookies for a ruck before like Cox by picking the right DPP's.

At one point i had some crazy stuff worked out which could still work. Billie Smedts F/B as a forward, Pattison/Rowe as a ruck R/F, Luke Brown as a back B/C. Because i lacked R12 players at the time in my backs Smedts would be moved back, i lacked R11 players in the mids Brown would move midfield. Pattison/Rowe would move forward and id trade a high money making mid for a premium ruck.

There is plenty of options to be different and unique in the backline this year imo.

Not sure what im meant to take away from that. Sarcasm?

If you guys have done the "numbers" and believe you can get up from going 3/4 rookies then go for it but I wouldn't go for it because of the fact it's unqiue (not saying that that is your reason either).

That seems like that could well end up being unique and the rewards of doing so may end up out weighing the risk. I just see to much promise in the rookie rucks. I mean im very confident Redden and Giles can score well and score well early with Brogan, Renouf Lobba all under some doubt to play TOG or games. You also have those R/F options as ive mentioned above to get a trading strategy going. Than you have Tom Campbell mature aged ruck at dogs, Hawks bring some young pups right into the fold with injuries to Roughy and Bailey. Witts and Ceglar at the pies become huge if Jolly goes down which is fairly likely IMO. Big O mature as they come, picked to play, isnt going to only be making 50k a year without going gunball IMO.

It's funny that this year looks to be the first year I'll be going two premium rucks (don't really count Cox as a premium last year at an avg of 84) when everyone is considering a rookie or two to start yet it's be the opposite way around for myself in previous years (and last year was the first year I went for a premium ruck to begin with in Sandilands (well at least since 2009)).

Cox was certainly a premium even though i know what your saying

It seems we will be completely different in rucks than. No way i will start 2 premium rucks. Very likely ill start one. It seems the one im starting you no longer are which is interesting.


Sandilands is a massive risk IMO, but as i said before he has upside to 105avg he has done that before when fully fit and no injuries. So more than capable.

 

[dylan123]

I think its something you have to consider as its a change to the game that we have known for so many years. The whole trading/strategy is different. I really hope one of the "Famous Dters" does something along these lines so we can atleast follow them. We have never been able to trade the money making/higher scoring midfield rookies for a ruck before like Cox by picking the right DPP's.

At one point i had some crazy stuff worked out which could still work. Billie Smedts F/B as a forward, Pattison/Rowe as a ruck R/F, Luke Brown as a back B/C. Because i lacked R12 players at the time in my backs Smedts would be moved back, i lacked R11 players in the mids Brown would move midfield. Pattison/Rowe would move forward and id trade a high money making mid for a premium ruck.

Interesting how much you're focusing your team based on this new trade function which in the end might not be that important (at least I hope not as I'm doing the opposite to you).

If guys like Smedts, Pattison/Rowe, Brown etc were the best looking rookies for their position then I'd probably consider it more then I have but I'll be looking to make as much $$$ as possible from my first lot of rookies.

Not sure what im meant to take away from that. Sarcasm?

Not at all, I believe that the backs (midpricers) are the best position to take risks and be unique.

It seems we will be completely different in rucks than. No way i will start 2 premium rucks. Very likely ill start one. It seems the one im starting you no longer are which is interesting.


Sandilands is a massive risk IMO, but as i said before he has upside to 105avg he has done that before when fully fit and no injuries. So more than capable.

Well if you remember my post much earlier on this thread I was keen on two premium rucks, since then, only one had preformed to a level that I'm happy with which has meant I've moved the under performing one along.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Redden's job security worries me. He'll definitely be in the side until Renouf and Lobbe get back, but from then on I don't know. Primus played a No. 1 ruck with Stewart/Trengove/Westhoff as a chop-out last year, so if he does that again there's only going to be one spot available for Redden which he'll be competing with two other guys of comparable talent for. I think Redden will score more than Stephenson, but Stephenson will have better job security with only West to compete with (apparently Dawson Simpson and Vardy both have bad injuries).

Also, on the Renouf injury, I know it was reported on the TV news but AFAIK it hasn't been mentioned on the Port site or the AFL site and he's in the squad for this week, so I think the TV may have gotten that one wrong.

 

[KardiniaPark]

For me Redden has good scoring ability along with Giles. Adam Pattison or Broc McCaulay as the hawks main ruck in there with Orren Stephenson who avg 80 + tackles last year in VFL and could still be the cats number one ruck.

By picking Pattison or Rowe it means you can upgrade a midfielder to a ruckman. This has never been allowed before and could be a great way to get some top end premium rucks easily.

I must admit I havent seen a lot of OS but he would have to be pretty bloody good to be near West or Vardy. I just find it hard to believe that he would be at 29 years old. I'd be surprised if he played at all if the other two are up and running. I wont be having him in my team. Redden is a far better option IMO.

 

[Keystone agony]

KP you obviously haven't followed him or geelong fans predictions. Hes mature aged, dominated VFL last year and has been on the radar of clubs for sometime. Geelong fans and many other immediately during preseason earlier on said he was the number 1 ruck for cats straight ahead of West. Remember Vardy is injured and wouldn't surprise if he didn't play at all this year, they will nurse him.

Now a few nab games in he has probably falling behind West but with the loss of Jpod i think Hawkins has to focus more on a key forward permanency and than they will play 2 rucks. West is a better forward than O where as O is a better tap ruckman than West so i expect them to rotate but spend more time in their favoured areas.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I'm not convince that the Big O will translate to good scores at all.
I have him, because you have to choose 4 rucks and he costs SFA and will get game time. But I dont want to rely on him for scores.

( StKilda's Michael Rix went on to dominate in the WAFL, but have a look at his old AFL stats ... ewww ).

 

[nameless]

Yeah i have no faith in Stephenson's scoring.

But i can't remember relying on a 4th ruck very often. Byes obviously make it a little different this year, but only for 1 round.

Cox and McEvoy should set me pretty decent scores each week and I'm sure Giles as cover will be good enough.

 

[borrat]

Redden's job security worries me. He'll definitely be in the side until Renouf and Lobbe get back, but from then on I don't know. Primus played a No. 1 ruck with Stewart/Trengove/Westhoff as a chop-out last year, so if he does that again there's only going to be one spot available for Redden which he'll be competing with two other guys of comparable talent for. I think Redden will score more than Stephenson, but Stephenson will have better job security with only West to compete with (apparently Dawson Simpson and Vardy both have bad injuries).

Also, on the Renouf injury, I know it was reported on the TV news but AFAIK it hasn't been mentioned on the Port site or the AFL site and he's in the squad for this week, so I think the TV may have gotten that one wrong.

good points but the thing with redden is he is so good around the ground and can take a mark so maybe he could kind of play like cox although he's tank wouldnt be anywhere near cox's of course

and anyone else annoyed about giles's extra couple of grand ?

i have had to get rid of giles because of his extra 4 or so grand unfortunetly due to being the extra amount he is away from having a pretty good starting 18

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Redden seems to have a hell of an upside, while Renouf is limited.
I'd say if Redden can do a half decent job they may well keep him in even if Renouf is fit. Not to say that he wont be rested a lot.

 

[KardiniaPark]

KP you obviously haven't followed him or geelong fans predictions. Hes mature aged, dominated VFL last year and has been on the radar of clubs for sometime. Geelong fans and many other immediately during preseason earlier on said he was the number 1 ruck for cats straight ahead of West. Remember Vardy is injured and wouldn't surprise if he didn't play at all this year, they will nurse him.

Now a few nab games in he has probably falling behind West but with the loss of Jpod i think Hawkins has to focus more on a key forward permanency and than they will play 2 rucks. West is a better forward than O where as O is a better tap ruckman than West so i expect them to rotate but spend more time in their favoured areas.

OK Cool

 

[entourage]

Question...is cox really worth it? atm i'm sitting comfortably with mumford + 80k but i can't get away from the cox hype. I'm not sure if i can justify the extra 80 grand on him?

 

[stoja]

mumford, burger, giles, stephenson

thoughts?

 

[Blue and Gold Blood]

^^ See nothing wrong with it, although if you are going the 2 premo ruck strategy, then id pick Redden over Stephenson as your 4th ruck. But this is only based on NAB cup form so could go either way.

 

[ThrsdyPlantation]

Anyone else looking at Hale with Bailey out for what could be half a season? Looked pretty good in the game against Freo.