DT Rucks 2012

[Quigley]

Not a terrible option but a bit risky. Being 30 is not such a bit concern for rucks and they often have a final burst of scoring around that stage (see Cox). He did look pretty beat up last year and I would be a bit worried his body is starting to give out. He has a very physical style. Before that though he was pretty durable so you could just put it down to a down year.

He is priced pretty well and you could end up with a cheapish low end premium. He was usually around an 85-90 scorer and that is probably his ceiling. He probably has limited downside risk wrt his price which is a positive.

For me its a no. I don't see him in the top 5 rucks scoring wise this year and that is what I want in my team if I am going to go with a premium priced (or near premium priced) player. If I decide to go with the rucks as a money making area then I will start the likes of Giles or O instead of a guy like Jolly.

 

[leungtl]

I think for the first time in a long time, we actually have 2 rookie-priced rucks who you genuinely wouldn't be that worried to start on the ground in Round 1.

Rucks can be such a crapshoot. I always adopted a strategy where I'd get the "best" two and lock and load from there. This strategy burned me badly with Clark in '09.

But this year I'm just going to go with the steadiest option in Sandi and rotate between Giles/Orren (depending on matchups) to start with. Everyone wants Cox but he seems overpriced compared to the other rucks, and there are questions whether the continued emergence of Nic Nat will negatively affect his scoring.
Ideally, Cox will drop in price and a cash cow will mature allowing me to upgrade one of them to him, whilst allowing me to get a good look at his role and how he's scoring for a couple of months. If he's doing considerably worse, I can pick up another premium option.

Avoiding mid-priced rucks like the plague.

 

[nameless]

Ye, i look at my team with Giles/Stepho starting and it obviously looks so much better. I think i'll stick with Giles as he's no chance to be subbed - unless injured, so that's a nice bonus.

It's choosing the 1 premo that is still a little tough.

I'm down to 4 - Luey, Sandi, McEvoy & Jacobs...

Luey - High pick, always going to dominate and shown his durability over last two years, really should continue to improve, don't think Hudson will hurt him too much.

Sandi - underpriced considering his injury last year, has potential to ave well into the 100's. Question marks over his conditioning though.

McEvoy - Improving ruckman who showed some great clean hands and an ability to get around the ground - should improve, unless Saints go more direct and he's not used as much in links between ends.

edit: McEvoy also has the best Bye for this structure.

Jacobs - cheapest of the lot and adelaide have their famous easy draw, so could really put the sword to those poor teams and get some big points. Honestly i didn't really notice him much last year, so hard to say what his ceiling is.

 

[puntnut]

Avoiding mid-priced rucks like the plague.

Why is this?

Simmonds, Mcintosh, Hille and Petrie have all been decent in past years.

 

[Quigley]

McEvoy last year as well was definately a great buy.

If you can get on a good one great but I don't see any real obvious ones out there this year. Mind you if Goldy or Warnock for instance go down in the preseason things can change very quickly.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think for the first time in a long time, we actually have 2 rookie-priced rucks who you genuinely wouldn't be that worried to start on the ground in Round 1.

Rucks can be such a crapshoot. I always adopted a strategy where I'd get the "best" two and lock and load from there. This strategy burned me badly with Clark in '09.

But this year I'm just going to go with the steadiest option in Sandi and rotate between Giles/Orren (depending on matchups) to start with. Everyone wants Cox but he seems overpriced compared to the other rucks, and there are questions whether the continued emergence of Nic Nat will negatively affect his scoring.
Ideally, Cox will drop in price and a cash cow will mature allowing me to upgrade one of them to him, whilst allowing me to get a good look at his role and how he's scoring for a couple of months. If he's doing considerably worse, I can pick up another premium option.

Avoiding mid-priced rucks like the plague.

What about Brogan and West?
Couldn't they have an impact on Giles/Stephenson who are afterall untried?

 

[nameless]

What about Brogan and West?
Couldn't they have an impact on Giles/Stephenson who are afterall untried?

Smith still averaged 70 with Fraser, not as confident on Stephenson, expecting 40's and 50's mostly from him.

 

[entourage]

Thoughts on Belllchambers? The way my team is set up so far doesn't allow me to spend any more than 325k on my second ruck. Or would i be better off just putting someone like Giles in and get a premium elsewhere?

 

[swanton]

Thoughts on Belllchambers? The way my team is set up so far doesn't allow me to spend any more than 325k on my second ruck. Or would i be better off just putting someone like Giles in and get a premium elsewhere?

How well bellchambers scores depends on the set-up that essesdon have, if they have the two ruck set-up with bell playing 75% ruck then get a chop out from ryder, then he is a good option for that price, but if hille is also there then that is going to eat into his score and time on ground

 

[entourage]

hmmm thanks mate, perhaps id be better off going with H-Mac, save some cash too

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

Smith still averaged 70 with Fraser, not as confident on Stephenson, expecting 40's and 50's mostly from him.

Surely you jest.

 

[drummoyne]

Surely you jest.

I don't see how it that hard to imagine a first year AFL ruck struggling to pick up the pace of the game and averaging low DT scores. I know all the right noises are coming from the coaching staff but I must be missing something. I would be surprised if he averages northwards of 65 with the occasional howler chucked in.

 

[nameless]

Surely you jest.

just figured he'd probably be sharing ruck duties with West...

Get the odd touch here and there, not sure of his fitness, but despite being an older bloke he's still young in AFL circles so the game might be a bit quick for him.

I'd be happy if he averaged 50.

You'd know more, shed some light for me.

 

[Hank93]

I don't see how it that hard to imagine a first year AFL ruck struggling to pick up the pace of the game and averaging low DT scores. I know all the right noises are coming from the coaching staff but I must be missing something. I would be surprised if he averages northwards of 65 with the occasional howler chucked in.

I have a lot more confidence in Giles, mainly because he is pretty much their only ruckman. Brogan will play less than 5 games I think and Downie is very much a project.

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

just figured he'd probably be sharing ruck duties with West...

Get the odd touch here and there, not sure of his fitness, but despite being an older bloke he's still young in AFL circles so the game might be a bit quick for him.

I'd be happy if he averaged 50.

You'd know more, shed some light for me.

He averaged almost 100 DT points in the VFL last year and seems set to pick up the no. 1 ruck role at the Cats. He has a better fitness base now and given he completes the pre-season injury free I see no reason to expect anything other than a 70+ average from the Big O.

Giles is a late improver and will similarly assume the no. 1 ruck mantle at GWS. I'm just as bullish with him.

It seems a waste to have these guys sitting on the pine when they look to have A1 job security and a capacity to pump out great rookie numbers.

 

[nameless]

He averaged almost 100 DT points in the VFL last year and seems set to pick up the no. 1 ruck role at the Cats. He has a better fitness base now and given he completes the pre-season injury free I see no reason to expect anything other than a 70+ average from the Big O.

Giles is a late improver and will similarly assume the no. 1 ruck mantle at GWS. I'm just as bullish with him.

It seems a waste to have these guys sitting on the pine when they look to have A1 job security and a capacity to pump out great rookie numbers.

Wow, thanks for the shedding that light, certainly opens up my eyes.

Just seeing photos of him i thought he just looked like a big tap ruckman who might take a decent grab when plonked at FF.

He was always in my team, but more confident of him to play a bit now, thanks.

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

Wow, thanks for the shedding that light, certainly opens up my eyes.

Just seeing photos of him i thought he just looked like a big tap ruckman who might take a decent grab when plonked at FF.

He was always in my team, but more confident of him to play a bit now, thanks.

No problems.. caveat emptor.

 

[Keystone agony]

I wouldnt be too confident in scores from Giles and Big O. We all thought the same about Zac Smith last year and he was competing against no ruckmen that were decent at GC yet still only avg 70 and he was a good gift/freak. Giles has Brogan in the same side, so i dont see him avg more than 70 ish.

Does anyone have stats from Giles last year SANFL?
or "O" from VFL? avg 100 at VFL level, didnt someone from GC do the same like Zac Smith or something?

I mean look at Brad Ottens he avg 80 last year and 66 the year before. He has like 15 preseasons, 200 games of footy under his belt and in the same team didnt avg that much. Do you really think Big O will match this after one preseason? I cannot see him avg anymore than 70

 

[Keystone agony]

I have a lot more confidence in Giles, mainly because he is pretty much their only ruckman. Brogan will play less than 5 games I think and Downie is very much a project.

Your kidding right?

Unless im missing something he will play as much footy as his body will allow. Hes a whole lot better than Fraser as a ruckman and will take alot more time away from Giles as a ruck than what Fraser did from Zac Smith.

Whos gonna score more a rookie mid or rookie ruck?

 

[nameless]

Your kidding right?

Unless im missing something he will play as much footy as his body will allow. Hes a whole lot better than Fraser as a ruckman and will take alot more time away from Giles as a ruck than what Fraser did from Zac Smith.

Whos gonna score more a rookie mid or rookie ruck?

Yeah but who scores more a premo mid or premo ruck...know what you mean though, it's a tough one to weigh up.

I don't mind the thought of Giles starting just from the sense that he'll never be a sub, but can't be too sure of who the two GWS midfield-type subs will be??

Certainly is a risk to start a rookie ruck, unheard of really...

 

[Keystone agony]

Yeah but who scores more a premo mid or premo ruck...know what you mean though, it's a tough one to weigh up.

I don't mind the thought of Giles starting just from the sense that he'll never be a sub, but can't be too sure of who the two GWS midfield-type subs will be??

Certainly is a risk to start a rookie ruck, unheard of really...

Whos gonna cost more a premo ruck or premo mid?

I win

 

[nameless]

Whos gonna cost more a premo ruck or premo mid?

I win

haha - Montagna is about on par with most rucks.

Point taken though.

 

[leungtl]

I wouldnt be too confident in scores from Giles and Big O. We all thought the same about Zac Smith last year and he was competing against no ruckmen that were decent at GC yet still only avg 70 and he was a good gift/freak. Giles has Brogan in the same side, so i dont see him avg more than 70 ish.

Rookie ruckman generally take longer to mature and rarely make immediate impacts in their rookie year (which highlights what a freak Zac is).
But historically, ruckmen have always been developed as skinny kids in the club instead of rookie drafting a ready made one from the lower leagues.
Orren is 29 (pushing 30) this year and has the body to compete. Giles is 24 which is generally when ruckmen start to peak. I don't think you can compare these two to a young Zac when projecting their ruck scores.

The thing is, if either ruckman average 70 then you're happy. I don't think anybody is expecting Giles or Orren to come out and start averaging 80+, but they're nice cash cows to upgrade to a premium ruck when the time is right. If for some reason you get smashed by injuries and have to trade elsewhere, you could do far worse than starting a ruckman who's averaging 70ish.

I'd feel much better starting Giles/Orren as my 2nd ruck and having a premium elsewhere to start with, than starting 2 premo rucks and an extra rookie-priced forward for instance.

 

[dylan123]

He averaged almost 100 DT points in the VFL last year and seems set to pick up the no. 1 ruck role at the Cats. He has a better fitness base now and given he completes the pre-season injury free I see no reason to expect anything other than a 70+ average from the Big O.

Giles is a late improver and will similarly assume the no. 1 ruck mantle at GWS. I'm just as bullish with him.

It seems a waste to have these guys sitting on the pine when they look to have A1 job security and a capacity to pump out great rookie numbers.

In 2011 he played 19 games for his VFL side where he averaged: 6 kicks, 6.6 handballs, 4.5 marks, 33.3 hitouts, .47 goals, .26 points, 1.63 frees for and .89 frees against (no tackle figures mentioned). This averages out to =80.04 DT.

I've never seen him play but from what I've read he's a tradition ruckman in terms of him winning plenty of hitouts but not doing much around the ground. I can't help but think that there is a chance this could fall in the AFL in a faster game. I guess we'll get a better idea of what he's capable of (if it's possible with these shithouse NAB cup rules for the rucks) in the pre season games.

 

[nameless]

Didn't realise they'd changed the rucks rules.

How cr@p is it that ruckmen can't put on any body contact during throw-in's and bounce-downs. That's going to be so weird.