DT Rucks 2012

[Ziebellion]

Yep. Toyed with this structure but soon realised that going 1 premo plus Giles, Big O and another rookie ruck freed up a whole lot more cash. Basically, the theory is Giles is likely to score reasonably well and close enough to what Kreuzer may achieve that it's not worth spending the extra $200k on Kreuzer.

Giles wont get near Kruezer in avg terms and Kruezer has a much better bye round and could become a keeper, eg: no trade required. Also by selecting him it means your 4th ruck is O or Giles and you can keep one as very good backup all year and trade one as a cash cow. By picking Giles at 4 it means you spend 100k on a nothing 4th ruck who wont get you enough money or have anywhere near enough job security. So remember your only really paying 100k more. Whether that's worth it, i don't know. Close.

 

[leungtl]

Giles wont get near Kruezer in avg terms and Kruezer has a much better bye round and could become a keeper, eg: no trade required. Also by selecting him it means your 4th ruck is O or Giles and you can keep one as very good backup all year and trade one as a cash cow. By picking Giles at 4 it means you spend 100k on a nothing 4th ruck who wont get you enough money or have anywhere near enough job security. So remember your only really paying 100k more. Whether that's worth it, i don't know. Close.

Okay I understand the first part of your post (I think?). I don't really understand the bolded bit though... Yeah I would love Kreuzer, except he's 208k more than Giles, not 100k. That's pretty substantial.

Did you mean by picking Giles at 3? Because he's definitely not a 'nothing 4th ruck', and if you're implying there are no good cheapo ruck options outside of Giles/Orren then I think you're making that call way too early (especially since a ball hasn't been kicked in the NAB yet!)...

 

[Wheedus]

Did you mean by picking Giles at 3? Because he's definitely not a 'nothing 4th ruck', and if you're implying there are no good cheapo ruck options outside of Giles/Orren then I think you're making that call way too early (especially since a ball hasn't been kicked in the NAB yet!)...

Exactly Until we see a bit of form in the NAB and the round 1 sides, this is all just theorising and wishful posturing. But there's nothing wrong with throwing up a few theories and potential structures. I suspect I won't end up going with three rookie rucks but it's great exploring the options you have with all that cash!

 

[dewey13]

Dont forget about Rowe...

 

[nameless]

No need for the STFU. The red card has gagged DWD... albeit temporarily.

Haha yeah, i wonder what that was for...

I want him back cos he went to the Freo intra-club match, imagine he'd give a good detailed report too.

 

[Blues_FC]

I want him back cos he went to the Freo intra-club match, imagine he'd give a good detailed report too.

No, he already said he was going to the intraclub game and he wasn't going to tell anyone how it went.

 

[Blues_FC]

Im gonna go down, will i post my report. Dunno

There you go.

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

Haha yeah, i wonder what that was for...

I want him back cos he went to the Freo intra-club match, imagine he'd give a good detailed report too.

You have an overactive imagination.

 

[Artax]

Hearing so much about Rowe but isnt he actually injured?

and what happened to DWD?

 

[Keystone agony]

Rowe is injured, unlikely best 21 with Kruezer, Hampson and Warnock all ahead of him.

Derickx is wishful thinking, even if he is best 21 and named for round 1, will he stay there. Maric will be the no 1 ruck, Vickery starts forward and cuts out Maric and JROO is the other key forward that wont want to many other hacks around him. What im saying is Dericks even if hes named round 1, your relying on alot of luck for him to stay in the team, just by looking at those names ive written down. You also have Graham. Will watch Derickx closely in NAB but i doubt ill pick unless he really dominates, just doesnt fit the structure for mine, but ill also watch Hardwicks game plan.

Yes i did go to the freo intra club game.

Dont get Jealous @BluesFC, RNS

 

[ize_]

Last year we had Riewoldt, Vickery, Miller and Graham.
This year it will be Riewoldt, Vickery, Derickx and Maric. At least until Griffiths/Astbury are fit and in form.

 

[Keystone agony]

Last year we had Riewoldt, Vickery, Miller and Graham.
This year it will be Riewoldt, Vickery, Derickx and Maric. At least until Griffiths/Astbury are fit and in form.

Fair enough will watch with conviction to see if you play 3 rucks. Didn't work for essendon. Will only take a belting in R1 for it to be changed.

 

[ize_]

It's no different to Ottens, Pods, Hawkins and West.
Or Jolly, Brown, Dawes and Cloke.
Or Cox, Naitinui, Kennedy and Lynch (and Darling).

Vickery is a forward first and foremost who can pinch hit in the ruck, and Derickx has been training almost exclusively up forward. Maric will do 85% of ruck work.

But agree, a belting round 1 will lead to a closer look.

 

[Keystone agony]

It's no different to Ottens, Pods, Hawkins and West.
Or Jolly, Brown, Dawes and Cloke.
Or Cox, Naitinui, Kennedy and Lynch (and Darling).

Vickery is a forward first and foremost who can pinch hit in the ruck, and Derickx has been training almost exclusively up forward. Maric will do 85% of ruck work.

But agree, a belting round 1 will lead to a closer look.

For me Collingwood have two rucks, where as tiggies have 3. Vickery is that tall that he is considered a ruck option by me and in his junior days i saw him play in the ruck a fair bit. Having such tall timber in the forward line is what every BF poster wants, however what they fail to see is that close to the most important thing is to keep the footy inside 50, ask any coach. If you cant apply enough pressure to keep the footy inside 50 which ultimately is what helps you win games, than that idea will be scrapped very quickly by the coaching staff. Not exactly like the tigers have to many small forwards other than Nahas to apply the pressure. Every coach will look at how much the forward line can keep the footy inside 50 and if they are capable of doing so for long periods of time.

The eagles setup is the closest to what the eagles are trying to emulate but id almost come close to saying that NN makes more people look over their shoulder twice than just about every other player in the comp. Ala hes super athletic and tackles like a man possessed. Please dont try and compare him to Vickery.

Geelong took quite some time to get that structure set up and solid and they are a side that has very good defensive small forwards who chase and pressure whether it be Byrnes, Stokes or Varcoe or even SJ these days.

Im not saying Richmond wont go with this straight up in round 1, what im trying to show is that it has rarely worked for many teams, Dericikx if he doesnt perform round 1 and they lose by 8+ goals than he will be ousted quicker than he can blink. You would be relying on luck with him at number 4 to play enough games at the right times, im not prepared to take that gamble whereas others are. Hows he going to score anyway? is he going to score enough to make money and play enough games to make money?

Remember 35-40 points probably wont be enough.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

For me Collingwood have two rucks, where as tiggies have 3. Vickery is that tall that he is considered a ruck option by me and in his junior days i saw him play in the ruck a fair bit. Having such tall timber in the forward line is what every BF poster wants, however what they fail to see is that close to the most important thing is to keep the footy inside 50, ask any coach. If you cant apply enough pressure to keep the footy inside 50 which ultimately is what helps you win games, than that idea will be scrapped very quickly by the coaching staff. Not exactly like the tigers have to many small forwards other than Nahas to apply the pressure. Every coach will look at how much the forward line can keep the footy inside 50 and if they are capable of doing so for long periods of time.

The eagles setup is the closest to what the eagles are trying to emulate but id almost come close to saying that NN makes more people look over their shoulder twice than just about every other player in the comp. Ala hes super athletic and tackles like a man possessed. Please dont try and compare him to Vickery.

Geelong took quite some time to get that structure set up and solid and they are a side that has very good defensive small forwards who chase and pressure whether it be Byrnes, Stokes or Varcoe or even SJ these days.

Im not saying Richmond wont go with this straight up in round 1, what im trying to show is that it has rarely worked for many teams, Dericikx if he doesnt perform round 1 and they lose by 8+ goals than he will be ousted quicker than he can blink. You would be relying on luck with him at number 4 to play enough games at the right times, im not prepared to take that gamble whereas others are. Hows he going to score anyway? is he going to score enough to make money and play enough games to make money?

Remember 35-40 points probably wont be enough.

Even though Jake King will not play round 1; he does add to the forward pressure defensively

 

[FromDaics2Dids]

Anyone going to take the risk of running this combo....

H Mac, Giles ( Stephensen, Derickx )

Would an ave of 160 between them be out of the question until its time to upgrade Giles/Stephensen?

Tell me why i shouldn't do this.

 

[Spider Klein]

Anyone going to take the risk of running this combo....

H Mac, Giles ( Stephensen, Derickx )

Would an ave of 160 between them be out of the question until its time to upgrade Giles/Stephensen?

Tell me why i shouldn't do this.

Maybe the Giles Stephenson Derickx combo could be an option if paired with a premium ruck.

H Mac with those 3 is way too big of a risk and if he struggles or gets played deep at FF (a very inconsistent position) then you end up leaking points in the rucks. I understand it improves your team elsewhere but playing 3 unproven rucks with a guy that missed almost all of last season is a massive gamble.

Much rather go Kreuzer H Mac with 2 of them. Still a cheap ruck combination

 

[Keystone agony]

Even though Jake King will not play round 1; he does add to the forward pressure defensively

Ah yes, my mistake i did forgot the push up king. Still i think Derickx, Maric and Riewoldt when up front together have to prove themselves in regards to defensive pressure and how eay it is for opposition to rebound the footy from defense when they are forward together.

 

[Keystone agony]

Premium rucks dont exaclty have a huge SD or price voltaility like forwards and backs tend to. Ive never seen a rookie ruck avg 80 before? yes they are rookies, rookie priced and first year returns to afl (besides Derickx) who is a rookie.

Relying on these guys to avg 80 is ludicrous thinking. Even 70 is pushing it. Considering thats what mature aged Zac Smith got last year as an alonesome ruckman for his side, different to these 2.

It might seem strange as the premiums have a low SD and price volatilityand the rookies have a high SD and volatility just makes upgrading even harder.

HMAC didnt exactly get pushed into the side and the roos last year were that willing to bring him back in till R24 when the season was over. He was apparently good in the scratchie but im not sure if Goldy even played? (anyone know).

 

[Wheedus]

HMAC didnt exactly get pushed into the side and the roos last year were that willing to bring him back in till R24 when the season was over. He was apparently good in the scratchie but im not sure if Goldy even played? (anyone know).

Goldie and Hmac played on the same side in the scratchie.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

With Petrie in the team, there has to be a risk that North go with a single ruck, with Petrie filling in when Goldstein rests.
We seem to be seeing that sort of arrangement in a lot of teams now, lets you have three midfielders on the bench instead of 2.
But then it would be a waste to have a ruck the quality of Hamish playing in the VFL.

 

[Jolldo87]

Premium rucks dont exaclty have a huge SD or price voltaility like forwards and backs tend to. Ive never seen a rookie ruck avg 80 before? yes they are rookies, rookie priced and first year returns to afl (besides Derickx) who is a rookie.

I've never seen a 29 year old rookie ruck either. Not saying that he'll average 80, or even 70 but this situation is completely unique to anything that has ever happened before.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I've never seen a 29 year old rookie ruck either. Not saying that he'll average 80, or even 70 but this situation is completely unique to anything that has ever happened before.

http://www.wafl.com.au/players/view/2132

This bloke is great at state level.
If no-one had already tried him do you think he could get a similar amount of hype?

When he played AFL he averaged in the 30's.

Silly thing is that like Adam Pattison he'd still be a reasonable backup to have on the list. ( Patto's actually a bit better averages in the 50-60s)

 

[Keystone agony]

Good point SS

Ive seen many ruckmen at AFL level avg 30-50 than go to state level and absolutely dominate as Rix has. Its not uncommon. The only thing with Rix was that he was jever the number 1 ruck, we are expecting the Big 0 to be that. I will wait to see him in NAB to see what i think of him in scoring terms because what ive heard from people is he can get plenty of hitouts which many ex AFL ruckman tend to do at the lower level but he doesn't get heaps of the footy.

Ive got no qualms Jolldo in saying it is a unique situation. But Brad Ottens avg 80 last year in this side. To think Big O could do that is getting ahead of yourself like the poster mentioned above thinking he could get 160 between Giles and Big O.

 

[Falchoon]

What's the Doggies ruck situation with Hudson gone?