Play Nice Eddie McGuire comments on holding Caro Wilson underwater

[Chief]

Ok but that's gonna take me a bit to process ... Might have to reassess a few things. I did not know that and in fact had a completely didn't version of the story sold to me rather hard.

Wow time for bed.

This just indicates that these people were in the early discussion process. I cannot say who was for or against what was being discussed.

 

[ShanDog]

Don't get so defensive.

Pointing out that someone doesn't get it isn't lumping them in with abusers.

It is just pointing out they don't get it.

What annoys me is the continual reference to the entirely different context of the 3AW exchange.

Chalk one up to Eddie for his weasel tactic getting in front of the issue and muddying the waters instead of giving a proper apology.

I GET HOWEVER THE HELL I WANT

No, but seriously, I was describing how I think a lot of people react in response to ODN talking in general term, and not myself.

On a separate note - the bold above is a major issue with all these sorts of discussions. People make others out to be complicit through inaction as I suggested earlier or imbeciles if they don't agree. There's rarely any thought given to the possibility of people hearing all the arguments and coming to a different conclusion and accepting that - they just don't get it. It's like postmodern art. Elitist. You either 'get it' or you are some sort of cultureless pleb.

 

[luthor]

1961-1993 when it ended, he was still skating.

Texas Outlaws, Ronnie Rains, Danny Reilly, Patsy Delgado and others ,

they were the days

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Texas Outlaws, Ronnie Rains, Danny Reilly, Patsy Delgado and others ,

they were the days

Sport, violence, showmanship, humour ... for a kid, what is this amazing thing?

Of course it was all real and the T-Birds just happened to have a winning final drive as often as the Harlem Globetrotters did in the most fantastic ways that had the crowds screaming. Awesome.

 

[Francesco Totti]

"You can't take on a gutter journalist and question their credibility as a journalist when they have no credibility. She is guilty of breaching the journalistic ethical standards on basically ever major story she has written, anyone can be a journalist, there is no body or organisation that polices the credibility of journalists and with print media dying, gutter journalists who create scandals create sales of newspapers or clicks on news sites which sells ads."

I'm not a fan of CW but I think it is a big stretch to say - "She is guilty of breaching the journalistic ethical standards on basically every major story she has written"

"anyone can be a journalist, there is no body or organisation that polices the credibility of journalists" - Theoretically there are bodies that do this, but in practice, as you say, there is little or no regulation of journalists.

Anyone can be a journalist but also fair to point out anyone can be a club president - not much regulation there either.

 

[Chief]

I GET HOWEVER THE HELL I WANT

No, but seriously, I was describing how I think a lot of people react in response to ODN talking in general term, and not myself.

On a separate note - the bold above is a major issue with all these sorts of discussions. People make others out to be complicit through inaction as I suggested earlier or imbeciles if they don't agree. There's rarely any thought given to the possibility of people hearing all the arguments and coming to a different conclusion and accepting that - they just don't get it. It's like postmodern art. Elitist. You either 'get it' or you are some sort of cultureless pleb.

See, you're importing a whole lot of defensive stuff into this.

Once all the facts have been looked at, the initial comments, the response from Wilson and so on, it's pretty evident that if you're still scratching your head or rehashing stuff like "but but but 3AW...!" then you just don't get it. You don't grasp what has happened.

Generally, just pointing out that you don't get it isn't automatically saying you're dumb or sexist. Just that you don't get this particular issue.

But yes there are people who overreact to this and see it as an indication of your sexism or just your plain stupidity. I don't agree with those people. Mostly.

 

[ShanDog]

See, you're importing a whole lot of defensive stuff into this.

Once all the facts have been looked at, the initial comments, the response from Wilson and so on, it's pretty evident that if you're still scratching your head or rehashing stuff like "but but but 3AW...!" then you just don't get it. You don't grasp what has happened.

Generally, just pointing out that you don't get it isn't automatically saying you're dumb or sexist. Just that you don't get this particular issue.

But yes there are people who overreact to this and see it as an indication of your sexism or just your plain stupidity. I don't agree with those people. Mostly.

Ah see, still an edge of it there though isn't there? lol

Some people come across as defensive, sure. There's reason enough for it though and I understand it, just like I understand people have their reasons for seeing this as such an important issue.

But don't get me wrong, I stand with neither polar opposite. I'm educated enough and have lived enough to know a thing or two about a thing or two, including the fact that I don't know everything.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

What is gender specific about the act of drowning?

Is it conceivable that a woman can be insulted or disliked without it being sexist?

Isn't Caroline Wilson somewhat undermining the 80+ years work that real feminists have done to get women in the public sphere, only to then recharacterise as sexist the kind of run-of-the-mill joke everyone else in the public sphere experiences regularly, and then demand that the public sphere be reshaped to her specific personal sensibilities?

I don't like Caro as a journalist she focuses on the politics of clubs and it can be cruel at times. But to talk about drowning her to shut her up is an echo of 1000 years of men's violence against women. Strong women have always suffered, men, traditional ones who adhere to rigid gender roles anyway, hate strong women.

Caro is a strong women, she is not afraid to tackle topics that most of us prefer she doesn't, she doesn't care if she is hated by you, and she often hits a nerve talking about a weakness in our respective clubs. I can respect her for that even if I don't like it. Men like Eddie can't respect that, she has to be stopped, put down, silenced, put in her place and a rigid gender stereotype upheld. He said he gets it, but I don't think he has.

 

[RW]

Are you telling me what they said was because she is a woman, or because they just don't like her?
I'm sure somewhere along the line they've drawn some solid insults about each other of a similar nature on air and it's never been played out like this, it was definitly not on, but the way people are depicting it as the worst thing ever because it's towards a woman is s**t. Does that mean if it was towards Robbo it would be all good?

It is wrong because of one word: POWER.

The conversation might not have started out sexist but when you have a group of guys talking about holding a woman's head underwater, with the apparent intention of "silencing" her, that for me was what crossed the line. Real men don't do that s**t, end of story.

 

[Tas]

Again, I have no problem exposing her hypocrisy. That does not make her offense here any less valid.

This is no way makes bullying behaviour acceptable. It all feels like a bit of a diversion. Are we really suggesting that bullying is unacceptable depending on who it is?

Was it bullying or just a poor joke? There is a significant difference in my opinion.

If he said the same joke about Mark Robinson would it be seen as bullying or would he have laughed it off?

Where is the distinction? Mark wouldn't have felt that it was serious, that nobody would attempt or even want to see it actually happen (to stay under). Would Caroline seriously have such feelings? Why would she? Are we getting to the point you can't make any joke that involves a woman at all any longer? What does that say about our society, our insecurity?

I agree it is in poor taste but nobody tunes in to MMM to listen to pillars of society, they have buffoons on the show for a reason, it is not a serious program and it is very popular with their demographic.

Is this issue a serious causality link between jokes and domestic abuse, where are the studies for this theory?

As a libertarian, my world views are for the upholding of freedom of choice, freedom of speech, voluntary association and individual judgement, this makes an invasive progressive politically correct ideology overcome our nation to be somewhat Orwellian. Progressivism I find is too eager to cross the border towards totalitarianism and groupthink.

I think Eddie, JB and the rest on MMM should be allowed to exercise their freedom of speech to express whatever opinions they have to make whatever jokes that are within the limits of the law and the law is already encroaching too far on personal freedoms. Then it should be up to each individual to determine for themselves if they are idiots or not and if they want to listen to them or not or if they want them associated and representing their football clubs or not.

This perversion to think but not say creates an insidious form of intolerance that rarely sees the light of day and it is allowed to persist as whispers within groups. Scaring people from making comments does not stop the intolerance, it just makes it harder to find and to treat with education.

We are just lowering the bar until we can't do or say anything that will offend the lowest common denominator, it is stifling for a civilisation that has only risen to it's peak when adopting the principles of libertarianism imo.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Does that mean if it was towards Robbo it would be all good?

It's just different. Saying you'll hold Robbo's head underwater so he doesn't come up demands a response. It's a challenge to one's masculinity.

Caro's response was to avoid McGuire at two functions during the week out of embarrassment. There's no comeback for a woman.

Calling her a poisonous witch or whatever, even a black widow, is fair (though edgy) play. Talk of physical one-upmanship isn't.

-----

I don't see why McLachlan couldn't have named the women whose advice he supposedly sought on this issue. Were they women on the Commission?

 

[TMoney22]

so i'm holidaying in the US/Mexico and all I can read about is this bullshit. Yeah he probably shouldn't have said it, but fook me, get over it. AFL must be an embarrassment overseas if this is all the news. And all this boycott crap, just wow. She can be angry all she wants and fire back at ed but making it a world story is a joke

this wouldn't even make the news in other sports around the world. precious bunch we are and there is more to life than getting upset about everything and thinking we are gods gift to human rights.

 

[SmAshmoto]

Reading this utter bullshit has me wanting to punch out a window.

Our whole country, football competition and media is pandering to one trash journalist who has single handedly attempted to destroy more football careers and personal lives in the games history, all for a cheap headline.

And she's just doing it again, hiding behind her gender when it suits the narrative that she's a poor hard done by female journo trying to make it in the blokes world.

I have no sympathy for Caroline Wilson. I'll chip in ten grand if she packs up her office and *s off out of the football world forever.

And that's not sexism. That's dislike for someone.

 

[Whiskers]

How is it that some poor attempt at humour has got so much more attention on domestic violence than you know actual domestic violence that resulted in death?
I seem to recall a MALE was killed in an actual domestic violence incident last year. His name was Phil Walsh for anyone who has forgotten.
An outpouring of grief resulted from his death but nobody seems to give a s**t about Cy Walsh's sentence.
Does anyone have any actual idea what his update/sentence is? Does anyone even care? Or are the words by bufoons on triple MMM and their punishment a bigger issue?
It seems like vague comments about drowning someone is a bigger problem than actual domestic violence. It is bizarre AF

 

[SmAshmoto]

Actually it's quite simple.

It is simply because it's easier.
Jump on the social justice bandwagon the media and SJWS hitch up to go attack whatever they feel threatened by that week. You make sweeping statements on social media and backslap yourself because you're "outraged/offended/disgusted" just like everyone else has told you you had to be, you get Facebook likes & twitter retweets and you get to write a witty hashtag. Because you're helping!


Or, you can track down some court documents, dig through the paper to find a 1 paragraph article about it on pg 54, ask some questions, do some research and find some facts. But you're on your own. And it takes longer than an abusive, uneducated Facebook post. And no one cares about that anymore so you're not going to get the backslapping from your fellow outraged individuals. And you don't have a hashtag to follow.

Starting to make sense now?

 

[Topkent]

How is it that some poor attempt at humour has got so much more attention on domestic violence than you know actual domestic violence that resulted in death?
I seem to recall a MALE was killed in an actual domestic violence incident last year. His name was Phil Walsh for anyone who has forgotten.
An outpouring of grief resulted from his death but nobody seems to give a s**t about Cy Walsh's sentence.
Does anyone have any actual idea what his update/sentence is? Does anyone even care? Or are the words by bufoons on triple MMM and their punishment a bigger issue?
It seems like vague comments about drowning someone is a bigger problem than actual domestic violence. It is bizarre AF

Nick Stevens was charged with domestic violence
The afl nor the carlton or Port adelaide football club did nothing because they couldn't get any positive media out of it

 

[SBYM]

Reading this utter bullshit has me wanting to punch out a window.

Sounds like a pretty reasonable response.

 

[tonk]

Is there any other news going on anywhere?

 

[Ramify]

It's just different. Saying you'll hold Robbo's head underwater so he doesn't come up demands a response. It's a challenge to one's masculinity.

Caro's response was to avoid McGuire at two functions during the week out of embarrassment. There's no comeback for a woman.

Calling her a poisonous witch or whatever, even a black widow, is fair (though edgy) play. Talk of physical one-upmanship isn't.

-----

I don't see why McLachlan couldn't have named the women whose advice he supposedly sought on this issue. Were they women on the Commission?

Pretty sure Caro could kick Eddies arse if she truely felt her masculinity was challenged. Just saying.

 

[Fadge]

Go on! Who'd have thought that was the case on a forum mostly involving a contest of ideas.

My point was that you are not justified in making statements like 'you are making a fool of yourself' and 'a primary school kid could tell the difference'.

No, he/she was expressing their perspective that was different to yours.

 

[Lucky Star]

So many comments in this whole debate about Caro's style of journalism.

Completely irrelevant.

 

[Fadge]

Once all the facts have been looked at, the initial comments, the response from Wilson and so on, it's pretty evident that if you're still scratching your head or rehashing stuff like "but but but 3AW...!" then you just don't get it. You don't grasp what has happened.

Ah, no. Shandog (and many others) get it.

He, and many others, have simply reached a different conclusion.

 

[teknodeejay]

I don't get how Brayshaw is escaping any of the heat. He's as much a bigot and a power monger as McGuire to the point he's cloned himself as his shadow. He should be just as muddied. He was all into it like a giggling cowardice school boy watching the schoolyard bully lay into someone.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Pretty sure Caro could kick Eddies arse if she truely felt her masculinity was challenged. Just saying.

I get that there's another side to this. As has been mentioned previously, feminists want all the benefits of equality but none of the responsibility. None of them are pushing for equal numbers in the mining industry. But back in the so-called "bad old days" when Sinatra referred to the Australian press (but nobody in particular) as "buck and a half hookers", they wouldn't let his plane leave the airport until he said sorry. McGuire's comments would've been out of line then and they're out of line now.

Perhaps I'm out of touch and it should be open slather? In that case, get rid of the ******* social policies.

 

[Pusswah]

I don't get how Brayshaw is escaping any of the heat. He's as much a bigot and a power monger as McGuire to the point he's cloned himself as his shadow. He should be just as muddied. He was all into it like a giggling cowardice school boy watching the schoolyard bully lay into someone.

It's almost like he's got his own dramas so he's off the hook. He's a piece of s**t too.