Opinion End The Negativity

[Papa G]

New Coach. Breathe some fresh air into the place.

Trade Bait. Offer up for trade Boak, Trengove, Young, Lobbe, Broadbent, Impey, Lobbe and for the right price, Robbie Gray (he ain't winning a flag with us).

 

[jeg01]

If he's not up to it, he's not up to it. You reckon Clarkson or Longmire need tactical assistance in the box? If Ken doesn't understand football then we need someone that does.

Yes exactly

 

[jeg01]

If he's not up to it, he's not up to it. You reckon Clarkson or Longmire need tactical assistance in the box? If Ken doesn't understand football then we need someone that does.

That is why they are head coaches who call the shots, the assistants are there to carry out their orders not go off with their own ideas. They are boss as it should be.

 

[Doctor Feel]

I am sick of opening a thread and reading pages and pages of people posting that (a) Ken can't coach, (b) our players are lost causes, (c) the club is doomed until major changes are made and (d) we don't develop players like everyone else.

This club lies on the cusp of a flag. Until 25 seconds to go on Saturday night, we were a moderate chance of this years flag. Don't believe me? Our odds before the game were 13/1. If we had won that would have been 8/1. Those are independent assessments of where we are at- not my opinion. Ok, the 8/1 is an opinion but not the 13/1.

Our twos are in the best shape they have been in the One Club era. Again, not my opinion- that is based on us not winning a Second Semi in that time until Sunday. Our recruiting has been excellent- even our rookies (Eddy, Lienert, Houston, Hewett, Snelling and Ladhams are all good enough to be retained. No other club would be in that position and we have never been before.

Saturday night's team + Jonas +Hombsch + Atley + Drew + Johnson + Broadbent will form the hub of a very good team for a few years yet. This year we won in more places than any other team ever- Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, Ballarat and China. On Saturday night we became the first team ever to win 4 quarters of footy and lose the game.

Off field we are kicking goals- we have a competent and stable board and management. China looks very promising. We regularly attract 35,000 plus to home games- well above the league average. We are attracting better players than we are losing.

We need to take an extra step or two. In October, 17 other teams will be in the same boat. We have holes in our list that injuries could expose. 18 other teams will say the same thing.

This year was a missed opportunity, no doubt. But I say that because we are close. The only danger is we throw the baby out with the bathwater. We have the raw ingredients, hopefully the hurt from Saturday night gives us the hunger we need to turn a very good list into a premiership team.

No.

 

[Lagooner]

The rules don't actually say that we will have a harder draw, in fact with the AFL trying to invent more "rivalries" we could even find that they have to double us up against some teams we don't usually double up against. We will have a showdown double up for the top 6 so they tchnically don't have to find another there.
Pappagallo was correct in saying the position for fixturing is the post-finals position, as can be seen from the attached explanation of the 2016 fixture. The Bulldogs finished 6th at the end of the 2015 H/A and Adelaide 7th but Adelaide won the final against the Bulldogs putting themselves into the top 6.

http://www.afl.com.au/fixture/fixture-explained

I didn't mean we will get a harder draw due to the rules but I can see how you read it like that. What I meant was chances are we won't get lucky with double ups against 17th and 18th again, so it'll probably be harder simply because it couldn't possibly get any easier. It's still possible for lightning to strike twice, but not likely.

You're right though being in the middle tier again means we could get only the Crows as our only Top 6 double-up, but there is scope for a second one.

 

[HighBudget]

If he's not up to it, he's not up to it. You reckon Clarkson or Longmire need tactical assistance in the box? If Ken doesn't understand football then we need someone that does.

Well tell Koch and Keith that, If it was up to me Ken would be gone by now

 

[Andre]

We will have a harder draw than this year but it shouldn't be too bad. Since we officially finished 7th we're actually in the middle tier for fixturing purposes. So from memory that means we can only have a maximum of 2 double-ups from the Top 6 and the other 3 (possibly 4) will be against teams 8 and below.

Yep, we're in the middle 6 of the 6-6-6 grouping. Same as this year. For double ups, we play a minimum of 1 and max of 2 in the top 6. Play a minimum of 2 and max 3 of other middle 6 clubs. And minimum 1 and maximum 2 of the bottom 6.

We did fine with our double ups - 2 against top 8 sides, where the ladder end of 2016 predicted 3. Where it was harder then that implies for 2017, is of those 9 games against top 8 sides (and leaving Adelaide aside), we had only 2 of 7 against sides at Adelaide Oval. Of which one is West Coast who play Adelaide well against both us and Adelaide.

It was where we played the top 8 sides that made our draw harder then just looking at double up's appears. If you're a shit side you want the top sides away, as you'll lose anyway, so you want the shit sides at home for a chance of victory. If you're a middle of the road side (as we are), you want the shit sides away, as you should beat them anyway (and we did), with the good sides at home, so that home ground advantage can help you over the line. Given how well West Coast play AO, we had that once (Richmond), yet another one where we should have won, but forward structure and kicking for goal stopped us.

So next year outside the Crows we could get one of the other finalists remaining doubling up. My money at this point would be on West Coast, with an Elimination Final 'replay' as one of the early games at the new WA stadium. It's the sort of thing the AFL likes to build up. Lock it in if West Coast goes down to GWS. What's the dimensions of the new ground? Hopefully more like the MCG then AO and Subi.

It depends on how we go from the minimums/maximums in each group. We are getting a much harder draw though. I'm 95% sure our potential double ups come from top 6 of Adelaide (duh) and West Coast. Middle six - Essendon, Melbourne, Saints, bottom six - Collingwood, Carlton. Essendon, Melbourne and Saints as they were the one's to cause big issues this year of the potentials. Carlton, the AFL would see us with our poor games against them in 2015 and 2016 in Victoria as a chance to get them up in their games against middle 6 sides. Collingwood as they pushed us fairly well at AO, despite lots of injuries at that point of the year.

I look at who we are likely to get below and that points to a hard draw. Whether hard or ****ing hard, depends on whether our non-double up games against top 8 sides are all/mostly away again. If they are, get ready for a repeat of flat track bully Port and a further drop off in memberships in 2019.

The absolute worse double up possibilities for me are (2 top 6, 3 middle 6, 1 bottom 6):

From top 6 - Adelaide and West Coast
From middle 6 - Essendon, Melbourne, Saints
From bottom 6 - Collingwood

Middle of the road
Top 6 - Adelaide, West Coast
Middle 6 - Essendon, Melbourne
Bottom 6 - Collingwood, Carlton

'Best' case
Top 6 - Adelaide
Middle 6 - Essendon, Melbourne, Saints
Bottom 6 - Collingwood, Carlton

 

[Coobk001]

Yes.

1. The sting of that loss will drive our players.
2. Dixon is coming into his own as a significant player in the AFL.
3. Trengove leaving will provide us some cap space to entice a free agent. (Rockliff would be my preference)
4. DBJ, Clurey, SPP, Houston, Marshall, Bonner & Howard are gems. (I'm also still bullish on Austin and Ah Chee)
5. Saunders sounds like a great get (unconfirmed but seems likely)
6. China won't be as much of a distraction as it was this year.
7. Gray, Hartlett, Jonas, Ebert, Wines, Wingard, Boak, Pittard, Ryder are all still in their prime.

1. I doubt it. I think it is more likely to create a whole new set of mental demons, we'll suddenly have 'needing to win a final' as a barrier, Charlie to kick straight in big game barrier, close games barrier continues, etc.
3. Rocky would be good. Fingers crossed.
4. I think Austin should be put up as trade bait if we are to keep Howard down back.
7. All of which have failed in big games time and time again and are proven not to be good enough to get us to the big dance IMO.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

See when I try to take a step back, all I think of was that we got eliminated by a non premiership threat, one that fluked its way into the finals this year. Not the geniune premiership sides, we lost to basically a team in the finals just making up numbers.

We are a miles off. Young kids or not, this was close to the best 22 we've selected at this point.

But the big thing for me is the mentality. The way we got eliminated in 2014, it's happened again and again. These players, these coaches, this club refuses to learn and I am fed up with it.

 

[DazzaTys]

It's been frustrating supporting this club. I can't believe we finished only 1.5 games outside the minor premiership. Yet we looked so far off it when the pressure was on. We've been humbled by our most hated foe and look miles away from being able to compete with them.

The other issue is the stubbornness of Ken and co. What did we expect throwing the likes of Bonner and Marshall into a match against Priddis, McGovern, Mitchell etc. We had plenty of opportunity to play them yet left it until last minute. The selection isssues have been a worry for the last few years, yet we continue to reward poor form. How the hell Impey was even on the radar for selection was beyond any logical reasoning.

The other issue that annoys me is the bulls**t rose coloured glasses that some of us supporters wear. Kochie calling the players out is needed, if you aren't here to win a premiership for Port then please leave. When players put in a weak gutless performance, then they deserve to get called it. I get the constant negativity becomes an issue, but the best way to silence that is to have a crack.

I suppose the positives are we have a core of good young players coming through. There's no reason that should we make some changes to our game plan, play a couple of Talls up front and improve our goal kicking then those 15 point and below losses will turn to wins. Bring on 2018 please.

 

[Ando39]

But in reality, you have no idea, none of us do. So what's your point?

Well my point was that Bassett has a greater history of success and getting more out of his players and not accepting second best than Hinkley does, but now I question why you asked the question in a public forum if you yourself deemed the question irrelevant? Or is it only irrelevant if you receive an answer you disagree with?

 

[Andre]

The other issue that annoys me is the bulls**t rose coloured glasses that some of us supporters wear. Kochie calling the players out is needed, if you aren't here to win a premiership for Port then please leave. When players put in a weak gutless performance, then they deserve to get called it. I get the constant negativity becomes an issue, but the best way to silence that is to have a crack.

No problem with Koch calling the players out. At least here the issue is Koch didn't call out the coaches or off-field staff in general along with them.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Forgetting who is coach for a minute. I want an answer to the question: Do people feel like we will improve next year. Yes/No and why

#marginalgains

 

[ibd77]

No we are not.

What ya talkin about Willis?

GWS are walking wounded and out of form.
Richmond will Richmond soon.
Sydney are due for a loss.
We are way overdue to the beat the Cows
Geelong wont make it.

The flag was there for the taking and we choked.

 

[*PAF]

I will wait until aftet our first two games because atm the feeling is that we will keep doing the same thing. Picking the same side with the same structures and gameplan expecting different results.

If we do that and have a harder draw then we will be in for a fourth meh season in a row.

 

[Lagooner]

Here's something positive. Imagine how much more of an animal SPP is going to be after another preseason!

 

[chiwigi]

Yep, we're in the middle 6 of the 6-6-6 grouping. Same as this year. For double ups, we play a minimum of 1 and max of 2 in the top 6. Play a minimum of 2 and max 3 of other middle 6 clubs. And minimum 1 and maximum 2 of the bottom 6.

We did fine with our double ups - 2 against top 8 sides, where the ladder end of 2016 predicted 3. Where it was harder then that implies for 2017, is of those 9 games against top 8 sides (and leaving Adelaide aside), we had only 2 of 7 against sides at Adelaide Oval. Of which one is West Coast who play Adelaide well against both us and Adelaide.

It was where we played the top 8 sides that made our draw harder then just looking at double up's appears. If you're a shit side you want the top sides away, as you'll lose anyway, so you want the shit sides at home for a chance of victory. If you're a middle of the road side (as we are), you want the shit sides away, as you should beat them anyway (and we did), with the good sides at home, so that home ground advantage can help you over the line. Given how well West Coast play AO, we had that once (Richmond), yet another one where we should have won, but forward structure and kicking for goal stopped us.

So next year outside the Crows we could get one of the other finalists remaining doubling up. My money at this point would be on West Coast, with an Elimination Final 'replay' as one of the early games at the new WA stadium. It's the sort of thing the AFL likes to build up. Lock it in if West Coast goes down to GWS. What's the dimensions of the new ground? Hopefully more like the MCG then AO and Subi.

It depends on how we go from the minimums/maximums in each group. We are getting a much harder draw though. I'm 95% sure our potential double ups come from top 6 of Adelaide (duh) and West Coast. Middle six - Essendon, Melbourne, Saints, bottom six - Collingwood, Carlton. Essendon, Melbourne and Saints as they were the one's to cause big issues this year of the potentials. Carlton, the AFL would see us with our poor games against them in 2015 and 2016 in Victoria as a chance to get them up in their games against middle 6 sides. Collingwood as they pushed us fairly well at AO, despite lots of injuries at that point of the year.

I look at who we are likely to get below and that points to a hard draw. Whether hard or ******* hard, depends on whether our non-double up games against top 8 sides are all/mostly away again. If they are, get ready for a repeat of flat track bully Port and a further drop off in memberships in 2019.

The absolute worse double up possibilities for me are (2 top 6, 3 middle 6, 1 bottom 6):

From top 6 - Adelaide and West Coast
From middle 6 - Essendon, Melbourne, Saints
From bottom 6 - Collingwood

Middle of the road
Top 6 - Adelaide, West Coast
Middle 6 - Essendon, Melbourne
Bottom 6 - Collingwood, Carlton

'Best' case
Top 6 - Adelaide
Middle 6 - Essendon, Melbourne, Saints
Bottom 6 - Collingwood, Carlton

There's no chance we won't get double ups against a QLD team and at least 1 Perth team

 

[Contested Marx]

Wiigiigigigigkgkyyyy

Woooo wooo wooo9oopppp

Sunshine rainbows and pixie eyed donuts glazed with pink and sparkles of joy

Yipppppyy yuu yie treat yeah go go go go go we champions hum dinner ping pong table and chairs and tables and chairs

 

[Power Raid]

Forgetting who is coach for a minute. I want an answer to the question: Do people feel like we will improve next year. Yes/No and why

Yes but we will probably miss the 8

Our youth will continue to improve but we face more top sides in 2018 so we may not get as many wins.

Our defence looks good with Jonas, clurey, Howard and hombsche supporting the 3 key positions. Bonner, DBJ, Houston and Hartlett take the small. That line up and depth means we can look for a trade for broadbent and Trengove.

Marshall and Johnson will come on and assist rgray and Dixon. Who knows, perhaps even frampton may sit in the pocket and support Ryder when needed. Perhaps having Hartlett on the half forward line might provide that 60m range needed.

Our midfield isn't bad with Polec on the outside, Ebert the workhorse, wingard the X factor, wines the bull and to be joined by SPP. Neade has shown enough, in the middle, he deserves a spot over Impey and Amon. Even SGray has shown enough he deserves a spot. This means Impey, ahchee and a few others could be traded.

Trading in players with a bit of zip through the middle, ability to attack and willingness to defend and a decent kick would be nice. Any 22yo sburgers out there?

 

[Alyx]

xoxo

We exist to win premierships... when we're ready.

 

[nadsee]

Forgetting who is coach for a minute. I want an answer to the question: Do people feel like we will improve next year. Yes/No and why

Yes.. We will learn by our past mistakes...Especially at selection........

I HOPE>>

 

[Portwon]

I am very positive that we will make the eight and be competitive next year. But I want so much more than that.

Personally don't mind that some are negative. Makes me think from a different viewpoint and a lot of posters back up their views with interesting points of difference. Hate the shitcanning for shitcannings sake with no thought but hey it's a forum on the internet your gonna get that.

What grinds my gears and makes me negative are two things.

One - our skills have not improved. No demonstrable evidence for me in three years.

Two - I struggle to think of many players that I would back in to win every contest or most aspects of a contest if the ball is coming in.

By this I mean if two players are competing for a ball in the air or on the ground or whatever in years past I would see it's Tredrea or Wilson or Wangas or Phillips or Russel or Timmy or even Wingard until most of this year and think it will take a good player or good effort to beat him in the air or on the ground. And there's a fair chance at a minimum they wont overrun the ball or misjudge the bounce or run to the wrong spot, or shepperd/not shepperd at the wrong time.Then ultimately the disposal would usually advantage my team.

My disconnect is I don't feel that way now a lot of the time and for long periods of games even when we win or win well.

Nowadays it doesn't have to a champion competing against a lot of our players just your bog standard AFL player and I am seldom confident of the contest being won in the air in the ground or wherever.

I know god mode always and every player winning every contest is not possible and I am not asking for that.

I want consistency of outcome. Like knowing when J Schulz was lining up for goal most of the time it would go in.

The seeds are there. I know SPP won't win every contest but someone is gonna be hurting. I Dr Feel confident that Doogs is going to get to the contest (and make it one) and that Dan Houston is going to use the ball to put us in a better position.

Well the train rides over so will stop but I feel better now.

Isn't anonymous cathartic venting on the internet fun.

 

[badbeats]

This 2 year extension thing does seem a little sudden... are Port worried Ken may jump early to the GCS (as the odd rumour alludes to)?

What ya talkin about Willis?

GWS are walking wounded and out of form.
Richmond will Richmond soon.
Sydney are due for a loss.
We are way overdue to the beat the Cows
Geelong wont make it.

The flag was there for the taking and we choked.

Surely you jest.

 

[Magpiespower]

Today.

Of all days, this thread pops up today.

Chris Crocker broke the internet with his "Leave Britney Alone" vid.

Ten years ago to the day.

Ten years ago.

Today.

COINCIDENCE MY HAIRY F@%KING BEANBAG!!!

 

[OneGreatClub]

Here's something positive. Imagine how much more of an animal SPP is going to be after another preseason!

He sure cursed immediately after that loss. He was spewing.