Toast Esava

[Turbocat]

That also goes for the best rarest talent in every group also. It isn’t an exclusive forward thing.

Rediculous to say that any key forward who is drafted outside a top pick will not make it at AFL or be any good. Clearly not the case.

GC..did not say that ... but rarest talent is tall talent so it does tend to get cherry picked. Doesn't mean players can not be missed or passed over for seeming to need more development ... just that the obvious talented talls do go early , where as there are so many more mids so the depth of talent means one can quite often get gun talent later. Id say with talls it possible to get talent later , just not as often has it happened in the past.
As I said..I do wonder if the changes in the u18 system for non crowding means that talls that standout in that level find it a lot tougher in a the bigger comp where there are more , bigger bodies against them.

Sav showed talent in the u18's any kid that kick 8 goals has some talent... its just that he was never a player that looked like he would quickly come to hand.. so player like that do slip.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

GC..did not say that ... but rarest talent is tall talent so it does tend to get cherry picked. Doesn't mean players can not be missed or passed over for seeming to need more development ... just that the obvious talented talls do go early , where as there are so many more mids so the depth of talent means one can quite often get gun talent later. Id say with talls it possible to get talent later , just not as often has it happened in the past.
As I said..I do wonder if the changes in the u18 system for non crowding means that talls that standout in that level find it a lot tougher in a the bigger comp where there are more , bigger bodies against them.

Sav showed talent in the u18's any kid that kick 8 goals has some talent... its just that he was never a player that looked like he would quickly come to hand.. so player like that do slip.

Agree that it isn’t as common as there just aren’t as many full stop at any draft range. Teams only have two of them.

It isn’t a rationale argument to determine a players future based on their draft pick, which is what he is saying.

If wells looks at a kid pre draft and likes the look of them and wants to draft them to Geelong; then what difference does it make if he is pick 20 or 43?? It’s all opinion and relativity to the recruitment team. Wells obviously saw something in him that he liked.

Once they are in the system draft pick is irrelevancy and has no bearing on any discussions.

 

[Turbocat]

Agree that it isn’t as common as there just aren’t as many full stop at any draft range. Teams only have two of them.

It isn’t a rationale argument to determine a players future based on their draft pick, which is what he is saying.

If wells looks at a kid pre draft and likes the look of them and wants to draft them to Geelong; then what difference does it make if he is pick 20 or 43?? It’s all opinion and relativity to the recruitment team. Wells obviously saw something in him that he liked.

Once they are in the system draft pick is irrelevancy and has no bearing on any discussions.

Id say the pick drafted at is just one tool to sort of indicate talent and how quick they will be able to play .. when assessed around the draft time ...but I agree its far from the definitive mutually exclusive defining indicator of success. Plenty of early picks have failed and plenty of late picks have become champions ..plenty at Geelong. so I guess being an early pick just mean that the team or one of the teams thinks that player is closer to playing and contributing .. a bit like an R1 pick will be a player with more expectancy on him than a rookie kid. It says as much about the kid as the recruitment team , if they thought the Rookie was more likely to succeed than they probably would have picked them earlier.


I do think its fair to say a kid picked in R1 was more of a standout at the time of selection ..and with so many fewer talls taken , the ones who standout are taken early... the success and failure rate of draft picks varies depending on the type of players , and KPP have a fairly high rate of failure so if a KPP is not a standout they quite often drop away... its natural that clubs try to go for the more percentage pick with their better picks...and then latish picks are more risky.... but once on the list ..all the players ..are listed and have a chance to bring themselves to the forefront.

Personally , I think means the likes of Buzza and Sav less likely to succeed than if we had the pick to get a 2mp type etc. Doesn't mean they will fail for sure..but they probably have more to work on , more flaws and maybe more time to develop. Didn't help us with Brown. Didn't stop us with Pods... and with a bit of luck , and a lot of hard work maybe Sav can work.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Id say the pick drafted at is just one tool to sort of indicate talent and how quick they will be able to play .. when assessed around the draft time ...but I agree its far from the definitive mutually exclusive defining indicator of success. Plenty of early picks have failed and plenty of late picks have become champions ..plenty at Geelong. so I guess being an early pick just mean that the team or one of the teams thinks that player is closer to playing and contributing .. a bit like an R1 pick will be a player with more expectancy on him than a rookie kid. It says as much about the kid as the recruitment team , if they thought the Rookie was more likely to succeed than they probably would have picked them earlier.


I do think its fair to say a kid picked in R1 was more of a standout at the time of selection ..and with so many fewer talls taken , the ones who standout are taken early... the success and failure rate of draft picks varies depending on the type of players , and KPP have a fairly high rate of failure so if a KPP is not a standout they quite often drop away... its natural that clubs try to go for the more percentage pick with their better picks...and then latish picks are more risky.... but once on the list ..all the players ..are listed and have a chance to bring themselves to the forefront.

Personally , I think means the likes of Buzza and Sav less likely to succeed than if we had the pick to get a 2mp type etc. Doesn't mean they will fail for sure..but they probably have more to work on , more flaws and maybe more time to develop. Didn't help us with Brown. Didn't stop us with Pods... and with a bit of luck , and a lot of hard work maybe Sav can work.

All in all logical and reasonable posting. Very wise head of balance turbocat. An ex mod in full flight.

Before you see them play, all you have to base anything on is their draft spot. But after they arrive at the club and play, my position is this quote I heard from Paul roos when he was a pannelist on the couch on fox footy— “ it doesn’t matter if a player is a first round draft pick or a rookie pick, once they arrive at the club everyone is equal and starts all over again”.

That’s probably the best simplest way to look at it.

Sav was also a pick 43, it isn’t that late either.

 

[Ratcat]

Id say the pick drafted at is just one tool to sort of indicate talent and how quick they will be able to play .. when assessed around the draft time ...but I agree its far from the definitive mutually exclusive defining indicator of success. Plenty of early picks have failed and plenty of late picks have become champions ..plenty at Geelong. so I guess being an early pick just mean that the team or one of the teams thinks that player is closer to playing and contributing .. a bit like an R1 pick will be a player with more expectancy on him than a rookie kid. It says as much about the kid as the recruitment team , if they thought the Rookie was more likely to succeed than they probably would have picked them earlier.


I do think its fair to say a kid picked in R1 was more of a standout at the time of selection ..and with so many fewer talls taken , the ones who standout are taken early... the success and failure rate of draft picks varies depending on the type of players , and KPP have a fairly high rate of failure so if a KPP is not a standout they quite often drop away... its natural that clubs try to go for the more percentage pick with their better picks...and then latish picks are more risky.... but once on the list ..all the players ..are listed and have a chance to bring themselves to the forefront.

Personally , I think means the likes of Buzza and Sav less likely to succeed than if we had the pick to get a 2mp type etc. Doesn't mean they will fail for sure..but they probably have more to work on , more flaws and maybe more time to develop. Didn't help us with Brown. Didn't stop us with Pods... and with a bit of luck , and a lot of hard work maybe Sav can work.

Put your head around this Turbo.
Jeremy McGovern WCE, pick 44, 2011 rookie draft.
Imo the best intercept mark in the comp.
Now that's a late pick.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Put your head around this Turbo.
Jeremy McGovern WCE, pick 44, 2011 rookie draft.
Imo the best intercept mark in the comp.
Now that's a late pick.

Mitch McGovern was a latish pick as well from memory, similar to ratogolea.

Pick 43 isn’t late, being silly saying that’s late... buzza at pick 77 on the other hand is what you call a late pick. Bit of a difference

 

[Strange Cat]

Think it’s been proven Warhorse hasn’t got a clue

 

[Catdog]

Happy with what he showed.

Steady progress would be very encouraging.

Very long road ahead but on the right track.

A lot of in this thread, hard to believe we all support the Cats

 

[Ratcat]

Mitch McGovern was a latish pick as well from memory, similar to ratogolea.

Pick 43 isn’t late, being silly saying that’s late... buzza at pick 77 on the other hand is what you call a late pick. Bit of a difference

Very late 44th in the rookie!

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Happy with what he showed.

Steady progress would be very encouraging.

Very long road ahead but on the right track.

A lot of in this thread, hard to believe we all support the Cats

They love to run down our draftees something terrible a lot because they want to jump up and down and try and make a point about us trading out draft picks. If these kids picked up do well, then it burns out their sulks they threw about it and discredits them.

They want a lot of them to fail.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Very late 44th in the rookie!

I am sure there will be some reason tho why it is irrelevant.... if it doesn’t suit his agenda it gets dismissed as irrelevant somehow

 

[Ratcat]

I am sure there will be some reason tho why it is irrelevant.... if it doesn’t suit his agenda it gets dismissed as irrelevant somehow

Yeah l know, you don't get much reason with some, but hey P43 in the Nation isn't to shabby!

 

[Strange Cat]

Yeah l know, you don't get much reason with some, but hey P43 in the Nation isn't to shabby!

Kinda ironic the backpeddling to use a pick 25 as a comparison to Rav

All over the shop

 

[Ratcat]

Whats ironic is both spencer white and mojak are likely to do more in their career than Esava. Both had good games at afl level. Both excellent athletes. Both failed to develop for one reason or another

I reckon we wait and see on that one.
Esava is only 12mths in.

 

[Ratcat]

You seem to be the one obsessed with skin colour. Thought i would pick someone you would find more relatable

His athletic profile is not that different to the to players i named. I guess he is the next buddy though


Both showed signs and never developed. Not all players can be champions.


Both showed signs of being capable. Even daw had a few games including where he got a bag of 6 goals. I'll wait to see Esava do it at vfl level before making an in depth comparison.

Sure Warhorse get your point he needs to do plenty more, but a start is a start and that's what we're riding atm.
I was criticised having only suggested he should play on Sunday, just didn't understand that!
Thought he showed enough to please most of the naysayers.
I'm not saying he's near ready nor l believe are SC or Crazy26, ....like reading some of your stuff no offense.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I reckon we wait and see on that one.
Esava is only 12mths in.

He looks the goods so far. Excited to see if they give him another run next week

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Sure Warhorse get your point he needs to do plenty more, but a start is a start and that's what we're riding atm.
I was criticised having only suggested he should play on Sunday, just didn't understand that!
Thought he showed enough to please most of the naysayers.
I'm not saying he's near ready nor l believe are SC or Crazy26, ....like reading some of your stuff no offense.

Not sure what I have posted anywhere is unreasonable. The commentators even where praising him on fox.

Go back to my original post, I said looks to have the raw ability and skills to be a good player, and hopefully gets a couple of games this year.

That’s far from any unrealistic territory

 

[Ratcat]

Not sure what I have posted anywhere is unreasonable. The commentators even where praising him on fox.

Go back to my original post, I said looks to have the raw ability and skills to be a good player, and hopefully gets a couple of games this year.

That’s far from any unrealistic territory

For sure, we're all just hoping out aloud atm.
He has some combine cred to develop.

 

[Ratcat]

I wonder if Sav had coaching in his 'donuts' game last year in the vfl. The comparison is closer than you think

No doubt heavily coached atm l would hope.
Just pleased they have something to work with.

 

[dazbroncos]

Sure Warhorse get your point he needs to do plenty more, but a start is a start and that's what we're riding atm.
I was criticised having only suggested he should play on Sunday, just didn't understand that!
Thought he showed enough to please most of the naysayers.
I'm not saying he's near ready nor l believe are SC or Crazy26, ....like reading some of your stuff no offense.

With regards to the point abut him playing on Sunday -

I added to Willo's point in the back of seeing him last year in the VFL the fitness was miles off. And he did flash well in the JLT game - but he also only played a half. I didnt allow for the that as an option - I stand by my full game assessment that he'd struggle with the duration and speed at AFL pace.

Still, I liked what I saw. Liked what he did and want to see more. Ive said IMO he'll be a 3 year slow cook and 1 year into it id say thats about right.
Very happy to give him the time - maybe longer - and lets see what we have.

GO Catters

 

[dazbroncos]

The next mention of skin colour - sly or otherwise will get the hammer.

There is plenty of latitude given to football discussion - There is zero on racism.

GO there and you will lose.

GO Catters

 

[geelong_crazy26]

With regards to the point abut him playing on Sunday -

I added to Willo's point in the back of seeing him last year in the VFL the fitness was miles off. And he did flash well in the JLT game - but he also only played a half. I didnt allow for the that as an option - I stand by my full game assessment that he'd struggle with the duration and speed at AFL pace.

Still, I liked what I saw. Liked what he did and want to see more. Ive said IMO he'll be a 3 year slow cook and 1 year into it id say thats about right.
Very happy to give him the time - maybe longer - and lets see what we have.

GO Catters

What do you think are his biggest areas he needs to improve on?? Mainly just his fitness?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

For sure, we're all just hoping out aloud atm.
He has some combine cred to develop.

I am hoping he gets a full game against Essendon. JLT is young gun watch for me. Couldn’t give a stuff about the results or scoreboard.

 

[Strange Cat]

What do you think are his biggest areas he needs to improve on?? Mainly just his fitness?

Naturally it takes a few years to build a decent fitness base, there has also been some concerns over his kicking action.

But he has a lot of good tools to work with , I was surprise to see how well he played below the knees and his second and third efforts are good too.

Hopefully he makes it

 

[Ratcat]

Naturally it takes a few years to build a decent fitness base, there has also been some concerns over his kicking action.

But he has a lot of good tools to work with , I was surprise to see how well he played below the knees and his second and third efforts are good too.

Hopefully he makes it

The fact that he has second and even third efforts says much about his fitness level.
It proves it's pretty good actually!
He's not running midfield is he, sounds like his recovery is quite ok for his fwd role to me.

I think people forget these young men are young professional football athletes, they're running all the time it's their job.
Prior to that they have played footy for years along with other sports
If anything what we are seeing is the physical and extra fitness development being a second year player in the system.
Personally l think it's more a matter of game time experience that will make the improvements we're looking for.
He's a rocket of the mark with a big spring they're natural gifts you either have or don't.