- Sep 26, 2017
- 26,612
- 43,796
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Even with clear evidence you’ll stick to your position...is it even worth engaging with you?
Toast Esava
- Thread starter geelong_crazy26
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Its a difficult choice ... ideally we get the wins while carrying a developing player because TomH is not getting any younger.
In a choice between the two , I think they are both rolls of the dice... I really have dislike of forwards that can not convert but I think Sav probably has more AFL type attributes that may allow him to play and impact at the level.
As time gets on this season .. it will be about performance.I doubt anyone has locked and loaded as much as we have in recent years.. not saying we have been wasteful just that we have refused to drop and brought in several middle 20's types... even Kelly , a drafted player fits this type. Yet we really have not been able to do this with one of the toughest roles to fill. KPF. We do need to be aware , or have a plan other than just hope for another FSon or a come home Falcon who is playing elsewhere. We have had no early,early draft picks for this type and to a certain degree im not sure the rule holds as much as it once did. How would we have been if we had P2 and used it on Schache? Conversely id loved to have had 2mp. As we have failed to add someone like that , many on this board still feel we probably will have to head hunt another player... at which stage games give to Buzza or Sav now , and mistakes they will make ..may be just a waste.
If we are winning and kicking goals and making the most of the opportunities developed then we will be more benevolent , there is something slight intangible about having youth in the side. When the public etc see young talent it gives hope about what is to come... but if we are struggling , or seemed to be goal starved , then the long term will get the kibosh and Crameri types etc will be preferred. Its a choice based around are we a strong chance for a flag... although the last couple of years has shown that once doesn't have avoid playing kids to win the big one... its rare to have young under performing big guys.
On Sun ..Buzza looked ordinary , no great surprise to be honest I dont think he yet has a natural feel for the game which would allow him to just PnP he will get better as time goes on. You will get the difference of styles that Sav can offer when we have Hawk in there. If Buzza is to play he must improve his marking , he gets under the ball too often , and im not convinced he has great marking hands (neither has Buddy)... I think Buzza is probably closer to ready to play for an extended period , Sav may give you 5 minutes of magic...then a lot of headless chook stuff... yet in a game now where two great marks may be considered a match winning KPF he probably presents as someone who can make so opportunities for himself rather than just rely on being on the end of a sliver spoon service midfield.
It may just get down to one player does enough to get picked. If someone get selected for the Melb game and kicks a couple they may well be persisted with.
Clear evidence? Franklin, kennedy, daniher, roughead, reiwoldt, lynch, paton. All early picks
Even walker, cameron and hawkins were only available as late picks due to the rules in place at the time otherwise they would have all been first round.
- Sep 26, 2017
- 26,612
- 43,796
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Thread starter
- #55
Yep add Ben brown to the list. There are probably more for anyone who wants to look over, Can’t be bothered tho. Already named enough to show that what he said just isn’t true.
It’s not apples and oranges comparing key forwards and other positions in the draft, there are only ever two key forwards at max per club anyway, they don’t get picked up in large volumes anywhere in the draft. For every key forward who goes late in the draft there are probably x10 more midfielders on average just due to quantity. The success rate is probably around the same mark when you add it all up how many late picked midfielders fail. It’s a draft generality, not an exclusive key forward thing.
It’s more a quantity over quality scenario.
I agree nothing wrong with being hopeful and enthusiastic about a young kid on our list... and I dont think we need to be too negative about their likely future achievements. Most of us know..they are trying to break the rule.. and Sav does have potential. He failed to take a big mark..can you imagine the syrup posts that may have seen if pulled in a big mark.
- Thread starter
- #58
We have given you names that say you can get good players at late picks, like I said you just dismiss anything not suiting your agenda.
Yes add ben brown to the list. Even add adam gooses and Michael O’Loughlin to the list, Goodes was drafted as a CHF and played his first few years there, same with O’Loughlin as a mobile key forward.
You don’t base anyone’s football ability once they are at the club based on their draft selection and their form playing in an amateur TAC cup setup.
Selection pannel “ I don’t think we can promote this guy I mean.. his played great football, but remember that two years ago he was drafted at pick 43?? It just casts so much doubt.. we can’t risk selecting a player picked this late”.
Just very stupid sort of simplistic thinking.
- Thread starter
- #59
You need to shift your mentality to understand these people. Think of the Geelong board no different to bay13 and the main forum.
There are many supporters who barrack for a club that just want to slag it off all day long. It’s just their personalities and general personas. Negative miserable people don’t change when discussing their football teams.
I realised a while ago that just because you support a club, it doesn’t mean your not going to bash it and run it down like an opposition supporter would. Some of our own here are in the definition just about as big a troll account as you will find anywhere.
Only difference is it’s called opinion and diversity because they ticked Geelong in the supporter box when signing up.
He hasnt played great football though. And you keeping listing players who were drafted 2 decades ago. Franklin, pavlich, roughhead, kennedy, lynch, n reiwoldt, j reiwoldt all eary pics.
We are going to have to agree to disagree on that point and move the discussion back to Esava.
- Thread starter
- #61
I didn’t begin that discussion you did, then when given names you just dismiss them.
What are these qualities he doesn’t have that a key forward needs??
He has all the raw traits plus more. Just needs to work hard at them and keep developing his game.
Only raw at this stage, but he showed he has the talent there to work with.
I don’t rate buzza unfortunately, don’t see much upside with his abilities and skills.
By the way, add josh Jenkins as well to the list. Will keep adding names as they come to minds
Last edited:
dazbroncos
Max Rooke Appreciation Society
- Oct 9, 2010
- 49,854
- 82,933
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Denver Broncos, Red Bull Racing
- Moderator
- #63
FFS... a bloke get his first AFL experience and its a ******* s**t fight already.
The Bobby-ites suggest the kid will be s**t and never make it as hes pick 42 and the full cuppers are anointing the next Hawkins.
I just wanted to talk about how a new kid got a game, flashed a bit and probably did better than I thought, demonstrated some progress from last year and in the same game showed how far he has to go.
its gonna be short year for some posters. Really short.
As for Sav, back to the VFL and work on the craft. Can he play this year - absolutely - but needs to get a better tank, be more consistent with his efforts and kick a few in the lower grades.
I liked what I saw and want to see more. His projected ceiling is probably higher than Buzza overall but id say Buzza is still in front of him - at least for this week.
Go Catters
The Bobby-ites suggest the kid will be s**t and never make it as hes pick 42 and the full cuppers are anointing the next Hawkins.
I just wanted to talk about how a new kid got a game, flashed a bit and probably did better than I thought, demonstrated some progress from last year and in the same game showed how far he has to go.
its gonna be short year for some posters. Really short.
As for Sav, back to the VFL and work on the craft. Can he play this year - absolutely - but needs to get a better tank, be more consistent with his efforts and kick a few in the lower grades.
I liked what I saw and want to see more. His projected ceiling is probably higher than Buzza overall but id say Buzza is still in front of him - at least for this week.
Go Catters
This thread is absolutely ridiculous. How can you pump up Esava and write off Buzza in the same breath? It’s likely neither will see much game time at the top level this year. They’re both long term prospects, both a long way behind with a lot of development to go. Surely the reasonable person cannot make any judgements for at least another 3-4 years. Yes, Esava looked good, but he’s not an answer to any of our questions in 2018, or 2019, or probably even 2020 at this stage.
Sav wont be breaking the ruleheaps of gun key forwards are drafted late apparently
I think the best rarest talent in that u18 age group is drafted early ... I do have concerns that the best talent at u18 , like Schache , is not as transferable as it once was.
The attrition rate of footy during the year will ensure all get their chance for an extended 'trial'. At the end it may be the one who managed to stay uninjured and fit, and so logged a lot of games (experience) that gets the real selection wins in finals footy (hopefully).
I don't want to put the mocca on him, but Buzza is a tank, resilient, durable. These attributes may just be what gets him to the next level of best 22; an extended run of AFL games due to constant availability.
But this could work for any of the contenders. I'm just saying Buzza is durable, its one of his strengths..
- Sep 26, 2017
- 26,612
- 43,796
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Hear hear
can’t even talk up the postitives about a player without the usual suspects charging in to declare the thread pre mature and the kid will be s**t ect ect
Noone was anointing the kid as the next big forward, all that was being discussed was a good first outing and the things he needs to work on.
- Thread starter
- #68
It’s rediculous to have a thread saying one of our young players looks promising and very talented?? Weird comment.
Name for me what traits and abilities buzza has better from what you have seen??
I am talking about raw ability and potential at this point, not really much else. Just like the majority of second year key forwards.
- Thread starter
- #69
That also goes for the best rarest talent in every group also. It isn’t an exclusive forward thing.
Rediculous to say that any key forward who is drafted outside a top pick will not make it at AFL or be any good. Clearly not the case.
- Thread starter
- #70
Did I say he will be the next Hawkins?? I posted how impressed I am with his ability and skills and that there is a lot to work with and develop. The commentators also had big wraps on him.
Getting rediculous if we can’t get excited even about our own young players. Something wrong with all that too.
If you where a Geelong football player and came across this board, you would want to leave the club as soon as possible if you believed this board represented the opinions of the supporters.
- Thread starter
- #71
It’s positive talk about the club, anywhere that goes on there are a group of people who can’t wait to come in and tear whatever it is being discussed positively down.
Anything optimistic or positive about our club irritates and annoys them.
- Nov 24, 2008
- 7,061
- 15,105
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Haven't read the thread yet, but big Sav looked very promising yesterday and will definitely be better than Buddy by the end of the year.
I'll put up my hand,.. but l said he "could be" not "would be" the next big forward revelation at the GFC.
I thought his combine stats were great, speed and leap, VIP assets for any key forward.
For his size quite agile too.
Posters are right declaring he's got along way to go, but 12mths is a long time in footy and l think he's come along way in his first 12 mths.
Hoping he plays a half in JLT 2.
Physically he's only just maturing.
David the Cat
Moderator
- Moderator
- #74
- Nov 7, 2010
- 26,865
- 35,536
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- WADA
You're safer in the rehab rooms they just keep rolling your contract over,you can hide in there for 6 years.
