Essendon 2011

[nathan t]

So many people seem to be rating essendon so low down the ladder this year, i just dont really understand why. I believe they have an improving young list and no reason to drop in 2011. If anything i think they will jump up the ladder a couple of spots, maybe got to 9th or 10th.
If you are one of the people that think Essendon will fall down the ladder this year explain your reasons please im just interested.

 

[Fluro Boots]

This should be fun.

 

[Rocky_Star_Pro]

Bad idea...

 

[joeyavalanche]

 

[KeilorUnder9s]

Your Drafting.
The way the club handled the sacking of Knights.
Your coach "whom is one of my all time fav players" has no experience.
List seems to be packed with down hill skiers.
You have good young KPP stocks but your midfield is well below par.

Just a few reasons I can think of.

 

[W. Smithers]

No midfield.

Geelong, West Coast, Brisbane won flags on the back of a dominant midfield.

You have Jobe Watson, who can play, but is no Ablett Jr., Judd, Voss or Cousins. Then after Jobe you have nothing.

You do have good KPP stocks, but that is based off draft position and potential and not what they've shown.

 

[DaVe86]

I don't think the bombers are as bad as people are making out...however if they are smart they will bottom out a bit this year.

Hird surely has a licence to play some kids and reform the game-plan...so you can't expect results.


Surely the priority would be to get games into Heppell and Melksham as well as continuiing to frame the defence and forward line with guys like Danniher, Hurley and Gumbleton getting more games under their belts.


I think Essendon should look to get a top 10 pick again, treat 2011 as a rebuilding year and put a greater emphasis on 2012 & 2013

Realistically, this side has too many holes in it to be a contender...so there's no poing aiming to be middle of the table. The smart thing to do would be to bottom out this year.


So with that in mind, I have very low expectations for the Bombers in 2011. I'd put them bottom 4.

 

[jko'neal]

I would suggest first year coach, game style will change, players may be played in different roles. These are just a few things that may see the Bombers have an ordinary season first up under Hirdy. One thing in their favour is, they have recently played finals and have beaten good sides playing quality footy. You can't do that if your as bad as people are making the Bombers out to be.

 

[Slattery_20]

I see where you're coming from... but hot tip? This is gunna end in a shit-fight.
$1.01 favourite.

Clearly Knights (& Campo too, "organising" the midfield) was a fair factor in our lack of performance especially in the last 8 weeks last year. People are utterly discounting that for some reason; and a lot of them were the most strident about how crap he was anyway.

Yeah, the list's not great. Too much to Paddy in the ruck, no leadership, not much of a forward line and no cohesion in the backline - pretty obvious stuff.
But we've still beaten probably 12 or 13 teams over the last 2 years, despite the utterly mad game plan.
People don't give Watson, Stanton, Howlett anywhere near enough credit. Solid footsoldiers.

I suspect we'll improve in some areas, and lose out in others [namely, play tighter but lose a bit of that explosive attack-from-anywhere] and get about 8 wins.

Unlike Dees, Bris or Crows etc we haven't lost anyone useful.

Get Hille, Myers, Pears, Fletch, Winderlich, Jetta etc fit all year, I'd almost guarantee we won't go backwards. All of those guys hit good form then went down.
Will we go forwards; I can't say.

 

[Slattery_20]

The way the club handled the sacking of Knights.

This I find to be a massive white elephant.
How is that having a direct effect?

Will he (or Campo) be leaking any secrets on how to beat his game-plan? Yeah the Crows might beat us this year... big change there.

Will he be out for revenge with his new job... oh wait.

Will his 2 or 3 diehard supporters be agitating against Hird? Doubt it.

{You may be right about too many downhill skiers & a few other points}

 

[DaVe86]

I see where you're coming from... but hot tip? This is gunna end in a shit-fight.
$1.01 favourite.

Clearly Knights (& Campo too, "organising" the midfield) was a fair factor in our lack of performance especially in the last 8 weeks last year. People are utterly discounting that for some reason; and a lot of them were the most strident about how crap he was anyway.

Yeah, the list's not great. Too much to Paddy in the ruck, no leadership, not much of a forward line and no cohesion in the backline - pretty obvious stuff.
But we've still beaten probably 12 or 13 teams over the last 2 years, despite the utterly mad game plan.
People don't give Watson, Stanton, Howlett anywhere near enough credit. Solid footsoldiers.

I suspect we'll improve in some areas, and lose out in others [namely, play tighter but lose a bit of that explosive attack-from-anywhere] and get about 8 wins.

Unlike Dees, Bris or Crows etc we haven't lost anyone useful.

Get Hille, Myers, Pears, Fletch, Winderlich, Jetta etc fit all year, I'd almost guarantee we won't go backwards. All of those guys hit good form then went down.
Will we go forwards; I can't say.

But do you want to go forward this year??? Surely a top 10 pick in a compromised draft would be beneficial.


I agree with the players you've listed above that are all good. Myers in particular I reckon could have a good year and your young talls will only get better.

I just wonder if another 8th-10th place finish is the desirable result. If I were an Essendon fan, I'd be satisfied with a 14th place finish with a stack of new kids getting a run an a few experiments with players.

 

[KeilorUnder9s]

This I find to be a massive white elephant.
How is that having a direct effect?

Will he (or Campo) be leaking any secrets on how to beat his game-plan? Yeah the Crows might beat us this year... big change there.

Will he be out for revenge with his new job... oh wait.

Will his 2 or 3 diehard supporters be agitating against Hird? Doubt it.

{You may be right about too many downhill skiers & a few other points}

Sorry I should have elaborated on the subject. Sometimes I just forget haha. Anyway the way they handled that and the appointment of Hird, Bomber etc. I just don't think the untruthful behavior does much for a clubs culture.

 

[Kings Army]

So many people seem to be rating essendon so low down the ladder this year, i just dont really understand why. I believe they have an improving young list and no reason to drop in 2011. If anything i think they will jump up the ladder a couple of spots, maybe got to 9th or 10th.
If you are one of the people that think Essendon will fall down the ladder this year explain your reasons please im just interested.

Thanks for opening the door.

Lets start with your midfield - Watson is good but his foot skills are poor. he carries the midfield with little support - Stanton was easily tagged out of games and ended up on a back flank, Myers and Prismall are huge disappointments, Winderlich went backwards in 2010, Davey has not improved. You have some potential with players like Zaka, Colyer, Jetta and Melksham but these are not battle hardened players and will continue to be inconsistant and brushed aside by bigger bodied mids. You would be hard pressed to find a worse midfield group - IMO midfield is the key going forward with zoning and flooding. Just not enough talent.

Forward line is also a concern - Neagle just looks like he won't make it, Williams was a terrible pick up and gave you nothing - lazy - got dropped and ended up sitting the year out injured. Gumbleton still can't lift weights and looks fragile while still having a lot of potential. Reimers just does not do enough - will show glimpses of superstar but goes missng way to often. Give the fluro boots the flick and concentrate on football. Acting tough is one thing but he does not go when it is his turn so I believe he is weak. Monfries can be good but goes to ground and always looks for cheap frees - the umps have been embarrassed enough and he may struggle for the soft kicks he has received in the past.

Backline is stronger than forward line so I believe Hurley has to go forward - Pears looks like he will be super and Hooker and Hocking solid. Still huge question marks on Slattery and Dempsey down back - they make horrible decisions when under pressure and turn the ball over. McVeigh's best is well behind him but he tries hard and looks really really angry at times. < see angry pants McVeigh.

Then you have the plodders who I do not believe are at an AFL standard - Dyson, Welsh, Davey, Lonergan, Lovett Murray, Quinn, T Slattery - these players still get games. None would in a top 4 team.

Bottom 4 in 2010 and there abouts this year. Not sure you will fall - end of the day you finished third last - and if you do fall, its not too far so the landing should be soft.

Hope this helps.

 

[cammo78]

This I find to be a massive white elephant.
How is that having a direct effect?

Your username is a great start as to why Essendon suck.

Add players of the ilk of Stanton and Monfries to the mix, and there's not much reason to be buoyant about the Bombers.

 

[Slattery_20]

I don't think the bombers are as bad as people are making out...however if they are smart they will bottom out a bit this year.

Hird surely has a licence to play some kids and reform the game-plan...so you can't expect results.


Surely the priority would be to get games into Heppell and Melksham as well as continuiing to frame the defence and forward line with guys like Danniher, Hurley and Gumbleton getting more games under their belts.


I think Essendon should look to get a top 10 pick again, treat 2011 as a rebuilding year and put a greater emphasis on 2012 & 2013

Realistically, this side has too many holes in it to be a contender...so there's no poing aiming to be middle of the table. The smart thing to do would be to bottom out this year.


So with that in mind, I have very low expectations for the Bombers in 2011. I'd put them bottom 4.

I think you're right about licence to rebuild etc. You don't give a guy 3 or 4 years then worry about the 1st year.

The next question is, who can we actually play who'd be keeping a good kid down? I can't find that many. Our best side has Hille, Fletch, McVeigh pretty much set in stone.
Welsh borderline, NLM definite depth. (I'd put one of them in if we were missing McVeigh)
Williams very much up for debate, but will probably get a month to show something, for better or worse.

Apart from that (I think) it's all guys 25 & under.
I'd be much happier if they gave kids a chance early without cutting anyone off; similar to how Mick managed the Pies list - Reid, Brown, Macaffer Blair - this year.
I'm not a fan of giving guys a run purely for the sake of it; I don't think it breeds the right sort of mindset and you end up with guys like Jay Neagle who take it for granted.

I really don't know if I'd go on any more of an artificial youth tilt than we have been for the difference between a pick 16 for 9th/10th & a pick 8 for 14th.

The sides we have been playing were pretty routinely amongst the bottom 4 or 5 (some Tigs poster has all those stats, sorry can't recall name) in the league for age & experience last year.
Guys like Heppell, Howlett, Colyer will come through & play more, naturally; by dint of actually improving & going past the older guys.

 

[Slattery_20]

Sorry I should have elaborated on the subject. Sometimes I just forget haha. Anyway the way they handled that and the appointment of Hird, Bomber etc. I just don't think the untruthful behavior does much for a clubs culture.

I'll tell you what it does, it says 'if you disappoint you're gone 'cos we don't want 2nd best' to all & sundry.
The sackings of Atko & Neagle do the same. Much like it eventually took a 2nd coach and 5 years to get rid of underachievers like Polo & Tambling at Tigerland.

If that's a bad thing...

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Bottom 4 in 2010 and there abouts this year. Not sure you will fall - end of the day you finished third last - and if you do fall, its not too far so the landing should be soft.

Hope this helps.

No you don't

 

[sgbn77]

But do you want to go forward this year??? Surely a top 10 pick in a compromised draft would be beneficial.


I agree with the players you've listed above that are all good. Myers in particular I reckon could have a good year and your young talls will only get better.

I just wonder if another 8th-10th place finish is the desirable result. If I were an Essendon fan, I'd be satisfied with a 14th place finish with a stack of new kids getting a run an a few experiments with players.

I am in two minds about "where" they'll end up. Certainly Thompson didnt implement an immediate game plan/team ethos, he was at Geelong for 11 years (I think), and they weren't dominant for maybe 5 years into that regime?

Hird hasn't coached before, and I have no idea what he'll be able to offer (that's not a slight, just an admission on my behalf). Yes he was a brilliant player, but I dont buy into that being a grounding in making a good coach. Most brilliant coaches usually ended up being crafty back pocket types...but we'll see. He strikes me as an intellignet bloke, so I'm sure he's got solid ideas about what he wants the team to do.

If he's ridden on the coat-tails of an "i could fire them up" mentality, then he's in trouble, but that's too simplistic.

But I can't shake the feeling that he'd want an immediate impact on the hardness with which they play, the competitiveness of the team, and a general improvement, and this to me dictates they'd pinch some wins. They certainly weren't winless when Knights left...so all this, to me, indicates that they wont end up 14th or lower...which would give them some more picks, and a chance to build.

 

[KeilorUnder9s]

I'll tell you what it does, it says 'if you disappoint you're gone 'cos we don't want 2nd best' to all & sundry.
The sackings of Atko & Neagle do the same. Much like it eventually took a 2nd coach and 5 years to get rid of underachievers like Polo & Tambling at Tigerland.

If that's a bad thing...

Thats all well and good, but I in a completely unbiased opinion dont believe Knights was the problem. Where as Polo and Tambling were definately part of our problems but this isn't about Richmond.

 

[Kings Army]

No you don't

Of course I do - if i can educate an Essendon supporter as to why their team finished 3rd last and will most likely finish there abouts then so be it.

It like a kid wishing for a bike from Santa and ending up with frisbee. Essendon supporters coming into 2011 with high hopes may get a few frisbees in the face. Maybe I can protect 1 or 2 of them.

 

[Rocky_Star_Pro]

Thats all well and good, but I in a completely unbiased opinion dont believe Knights was the problem. Where as Polo and Tambling were definately part of our problems but this isn't about Richmond.

Back in 2007, Knights told the board that our list was good enough to challenge for a flag by 2010. The problem there, he overestimated our list horribly, and coupled with a terrible gameplan, brought down his tenure. We needed Hardwick to come in and immediately clean out the list and start from scratch, but the board wanted a quick fix and went with the one who overestimated our list. It will take time with Hird, we probably won't be a shot for the flag another 4-5 or maybe even 6 years, the list needs more developing and it still has a few deadwood remaining.

 

[Daytripper]

Of course I do - if i can educate an Essendon supporter as to why their team finished 3rd last and will most likely finish there abouts then so be it.

It like a kid wishing for a bike from Santa and ending up with frisbee. Essendon supporters coming into 2011 with high hopes may get a few frisbees in the face. Maybe I can protect 1 or 2 of them.

We really don't get to hear your opinion on Essendon often enough.
Please don't be shy in future.

 

[Slattery_20]

...
I just wonder if another 8th-10th place finish is the desirable result. If I were an Essendon fan, I'd be satisfied with a 14th place finish with a stack of new kids getting a run an a few experiments with players.

Basing off the assumption that we're not god-awful bad, just 10th-12th 'meh':
I'd rather go for the wins & cop pick 14 or 16 or whatever; than "aim for" pick 6 or 8.

If it were the bad old days, when you could get pick 1 & 3 or whatever... maybe.

 

[Kings Army]

We really don't get to hear your opinion on Essendon often enough.
Please don't be shy in future.

This is not the bay - my assessment was fair. End of the day you finished 3rd last - all I did was descride the 3rd worse team in the comp. But feel free to rasie any points you do not agree with. I think you will find they are close to the mark.

 

[Slattery_20]

Thanks for opening the door.

Lets start with your midfield - Watson is good but his foot skills are poor. he carries the midfield with little support - Stanton was easily tagged out of games and ended up on a back flank, Myers and Prismall are huge disappointments, Winderlich went backwards in 2010, Davey has not improved. You have some potential with players like Zaka, Colyer, Jetta and Melksham but these are not battle hardened players and will continue to be inconsistant and brushed aside by bigger bodied mids. You would be hard pressed to find a worse midfield group - IMO midfield is the key going forward with zoning and flooding. Just not enough talent.

Forward line is also a concern - Neagle just looks like he won't make it, Williams was a terrible pick up and gave you nothing - lazy - got dropped and ended up sitting the year out injured. Gumbleton still can't lift weights and looks fragile while still having a lot of potential. Reimers just does not do enough - will show glimpses of superstar but goes missng way to often. Give the fluro boots the flick and concentrate on football. Acting tough is one thing but he does not go when it is his turn so I believe he is weak. Monfries can be good but goes to ground and always looks for cheap frees - the umps have been embarrassed enough and he may struggle for the soft kicks he has received in the past.

Backline is stronger than forward line so I believe Hurley has to go forward - Pears looks like he will be super and Hooker and Hocking solid. Still huge question marks on Slattery and Dempsey down back - they make horrible decisions when under pressure and turn the ball over. McVeigh's best is well behind him but he tries hard and looks really really angry at times. < see angry pants McVeigh.

Slightly harsher than I would've put it but surprisingly, agree on a lot.
Very much unconvinced on Reimers too. I see guys like Colyer, Jetta, Hardingham making it pretty hard for him this year.
He's not as good as he was/thinks he is, but you can't deny McVeigh did a job in a back pocket.
Carlisle arguably impressed more in his 3 or 4 games than Neagle did in 10. Lot less polish but the bare bones are there. He'll get chances.

Then you have the plodders who I do not believe are at an AFL standard - Dyson, Welsh, Davey, Lonergan, Lovett Murray, Quinn, T Slattery - these players still get games. None would in a top 4 team.

Davey had a much better year than he gets credited for. Can't agree there.
The rest, yeah 'meh'. Quinn & TSlatts are young raw rookies, might come good eventually, probably won't.

If we're hit by injury those guys come into it. Hopefully they won't be asked to.

I'd still take any of that list - bar Quinn - over Robert Eddy.