Essendon cheating again?

[choppy]

Reported on the news tonight that Essendon are going to pay Matthew Lloyd to lease his website??? . . from him so they can flout the salary cap.

I'll give them credit, it is very innovative. Sure beats employing his missus as a marketing assistant but what is the difference. They will get away with it though wont they.

 

[windyhill]

IF it works,good luck to them.IF it works, watch every other club follow suit.I just wished we followed every other clubs suit and owned up when the amnesty was on,we were plainly stupid,as are the d ickheads who continually bring up Essendon cheating topics.Except norf fans,who would consider our loose change as a freakin fortune.

 

[Grendel]

Originally posted by windyhill
IF it works,good luck to them.IF it works, watch every other club follow suit.I just wished we followed every other clubs suit and owned up when the amnesty was on,we were plainly stupid,as are the d ickheads who continually bring up Essendon cheating topics.Except norf fans,who would consider our loose change as a freakin fortune.

Big IF there i reckon. As you say windy, good luck to them if it comes off, however if it doesnt come off, could there again be ramifications afterwards?

What i find interesting is that as part of the deal for all clubs to keep their 'gun' players, there is an outside marketing allowance is there not? Now, if this website of Lloyds cant be a part of that allowance, just how much is he (and Hird, Fletch, Mercs) being paid as part of the actual cap? Ie, are they (Essendon FC) moving all or the most significant part of player payments to there top stars outside of the official cap? If the website is deemed a seperate agreement between club and player, where would that sit with other clubs? As said, who has the missus down there earning $200.000 a year for 'office duties'?

Ive a feeling this could be a very big story just waiting to break, or i could be wrong altogether and there isnt anything in it!

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

a more pertinent question to ask is why can't Essendon at least play within the spirit of the rules ?

Why do they have to resort to these sleazy under the table deals ?

Why can't they just accept that the salary cap rules are there for very good reason and why don't they just behave like other clubs and accept the limitations of the salary cap with good grace and a sense of fair play and just get on with the job of putting the best team on the park within the limits and rules imposed by the governing body ?

Just so easy to have a champion squad when you are paying them so much mre than everyone else isn't it ?

Why do Essendon seem to think that cheating the salary cap is some kind of 'game' where the most, er, 'innovative' accounting wins the day ?

Rules are rules and Essendon don't give a **** about the rules - thats why they are Premiers silly !

Cheats prosper and playing by the rules is for losers - right Mr Mc Mahon ?

cheers

 

[SydneyBomber]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel

Cheats prosper and playing by the rules is for losers - right Mr Mc Mahon ?

cheers

Dear 'More D|ckhead than goose',

Your attempts to label Essendon as cheats doing underhanded sleazy deals is laughable considering the rabble you support and their history of dodgy deals.

The reason Essendon supporters get annoyed about 'cheats' etc, is the fact that our current success is based on 10 years of hard work.
Our 'star' players like your Hird's, Mercuri's, Misiti's, have joined EFC as KIDS when they were worth nothing. Hird was pick # 78 remember?
The fact our coaching staff has worked with them to get them to the level they are now is testament to the hard work they do.

Half of our current 'youngsters' (Macca, Jacobs, McGrath etc) have been at the club for a few years now, and have been held back from the seniors to help their development.

In your case however, the Swans CANNOT recruit to save their lives, and continually buy the 'deadset *******s that everyone else rejects' (TM). You then have the hide to complain, and label other teams!

We don't BUY our players like you ready made, we know how to develop them.

There is a big difference, and why should we suffer for this?

PS. I remember writing a similar rant to this several weeks ago in response to your snide comments then. You didn't answer...

 

[Pessimistic]

The salary cap was brought in after Hawthorn, Cartlon and Essendon dominated the 70s/80s, was it not ?

But Just which teams have ever been 'clipped' by the salary cap. As far as I acn remember only St Kilda after 1997, and hindsight has shown that they needed all the good players they could get.

So if Essendon maintain a dominant team for a few years, has the salary cap failed ?

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Why should I answer ?

I believe your club is cheating the salary cap by paying players under the table. And you've been getting away with it for years

Nothing you will say will try to convince me otherwise.

I have my beliefs - you have yours. Big deal.

You probably think my club is a rabble who can't recruit properly and relys on AFL handouts to survive.

Of course I could give you a point by point rebuttal to those accusations but why should I bother ?

I won't convince you, just the same as you won't convince me that Essendon are anything but an arrogant club that thinks it is above all others and plays 'mean and tricky' with the rules.

Oh and BTW spare me the name calling - its boring and stupid

cheers

 

[topdon]

Originally posted by Pessimistic

So if Essendon maintain a dominant team for a few years, has the salary cap failed ?

No...excellent recruiting and development has succeeded.

 

[GOALden Hawk]

Originally posted by Pessimistic
The salary cap was brought in after Hawthorn, Cartlon and Essendon dominated the 70s/80s, was it not ?

But Just which teams have ever been 'clipped' by the salary cap. As far as I acn remember only St Kilda after 1997, and hindsight has shown that they needed all the good players they could get.

So if Essendon maintain a dominant team for a few years, has the salary cap failed ?

The salary cap has failed unless the AFL pull their finger out and stop giving the AFLPA a pay rise every year. The whole idea of the cap was teams with a whole of good players (ie Essendon) been unable to afford all of them, so they have to lose one or two starts, evening up the competition.

However, the current problem is clubs like Essendon just give players contracts with the payments heavily loaded to the final year, safe in the knowledge that the salary cap will have risen enough to accommodate this. That's why Essendon are in trouble this year, they thought the cap would rise by 10%, not 7%. Until the AFL stops increasing the cap at a rate much higher than inflation the salary cap will not perform the function it is supposed to effectively.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

i think you will find that it was actually lloyd,s manager ricky nixon who came up with the idea and why wouldnt essendon explore this loophole i bet you right now every other club will be looking at it its now up to the afl to see what legal standing they have if they can close this loophole or not.
cheers!

 

[mantis]

Originally posted by tiger of old
i think you will find that it was actually lloyd,s manager ricky nixon who came up with the idea and why wouldnt essendon explore this loophole i bet you right now every other club will be looking at it its now up to the afl to see what legal standing they have if they can close this loophole or not.
cheers!

Congratulations tiger of old, a sensible comment from an opposition supporter, who has actually looked at the story properley & not just turned the story around so they can use it to bag the Bombers.

As you said, if the AFL hasn't got a rule against it, then it CAN'T be cheating.
Understand now you jealous Bomber bashers.

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by windyhill
IF it works,good luck to them.IF it works, watch every other club follow suit.I just wished we followed every other clubs suit and owned up when the amnesty was on,we were plainly stupid,as are the d ickheads who continually bring up Essendon cheating topics.Except norf fans,who would consider our loose change as a freakin fortune.

I just can't understand why Bomberfans think it is so great to cheat??? it only taints any success they have...

 

[ptw]

I agree with almost everything which has been said, on both sides !!

Essendon's succes is tainted by the perception that they have cheated to get where they are. This is a fact (the perception that is) so continuing to "bend"the rules or explore other possibilities just adds to that.

On the other hand if Essendon can find a legal way to pay Lloyd more then why not ?

There is only 1 reason why not.....and it is the logical extension of what has been said. If Essendon succeed then all other clubs will follow. Now why would Essendon pay Lloyd more ? It is not because he is homeless or short of a quid, it is because it is a competitive marketplace and they do not want to lose him. But if it is legal for Essendon to lease his website say for $100,000....what is to stop Richmond offering him $250,000 if he joins the tigers ? ie if it is legal for 1 it is legal for all and your comeptitive position re keeping Lloyd does not change.

The only impact is that all AFL players end up with more money. And we all know they really need that don't we ?

ptw

 

[Blues2001]

Originally posted by mantis

As you said, if the AFL hasn't got a rule against it, then it CAN'T be cheating.
Understand now you jealous Bomber bashers.

Naturally Mantis, any criticism of Essendon = bomber bashing...

 

[topdon]

Originally posted by Blues2001


Naturally Mantis, any criticism of Essendon = bomber bashing...

What's the premise of this, and other Essendon related threads, then smartarse?

Stick your "" where the sun don't shine!!

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Originally posted by ptw
I agree with almost everything which has been said, on both sides !!

Essendon's succes is tainted by the perception that they have cheated to get where they are. This is a fact (the perception that is) so continuing to "bend"the rules or explore other possibilities just adds to that.

On the other hand if Essendon can find a legal way to pay Lloyd more then why not ?

There is only 1 reason why not.....and it is the logical extension of what has been said. If Essendon succeed then all other clubs will follow. Now why would Essendon pay Lloyd more ? It is not because he is homeless or short of a quid, it is because it is a competitive marketplace and they do not want to lose him. But if it is legal for Essendon to lease his website say for $100,000....what is to stop Richmond offering him $250,000 if he joins the tigers ? ie if it is legal for 1 it is legal for all and your comeptitive position re keeping Lloyd does not change.

The only impact is that all AFL players end up with more money. And we all know they really need that don't we ?

ptw

very good point ptw this could open a real can of worms no wonder ricky nixon thought of it
cheers!

 

[mantis]

Originally posted by Blues2001


Naturally Mantis, any criticism of Essendon = bomber bashing...

Have a look at the title of the topic & the first post, very objective view isn't it.

 

[Blues2001]

Originally posted by topdon


What's the premise of this, and other Essendon related threads, then smartarse?

Stick your "" where the sun don't shine!!

What's wrong today Topdon? That's a more agressive post than usual.

I said it because whenever the bombers are criticised for anything on these boards, Mantis almost always seems to equate it with bomber bashing. Even when its not. I agree that bomber bashing goes on here, mainly to do with unjust treatment of champions such as Hird and Lloyd (being soft, milking frees etc.) but here I don't see it.

Why is this bomber bashing? If Brisbane were doing the same with Michael Voss's website or whatever than what would be the difference? It'd still be interesting news and I'd still think that if there isn't a rule against it, then there damn well should be. I don't see the difference between this and what choppy said about Lloyd's missus working for the bombers.

If Mantis can then surely I can too...

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by tiger of old
i think you will find that it was actually lloyd,s manager ricky nixon who came up with the idea and why wouldnt essendon explore this loophole

And what if Nixon told Essendon to jump off the London Bridge... who cares who came up with the idea??? Essendon as usual implemented it...

I hope you are not trying to tell me Nixon did not tell The Kangaroos they could do this with Mr Carey... anything for another BMW in Ricky's driveway...

 

[Blues2001]

Originally posted by mantis


Have a look at the title of the topic & the first post, very objective view isn't it.

I can see what you're saying, but it doesn't mean that what Essendon is doing (assuming its true) is either within the rules or ethical. Your opinion isn't likely to be very objective either.

I guess my opinion is that the fact that the issue was brought up is NOT bomber bashing, but the way it was brought up IS bomber bashing. Get what I mean?

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Originally posted by Rooboy 96


And what if Nixon told Essendon to jump off the London Bridge... who cares who came up with the idea??? Essendon as usual implemented it...

I hope you are not trying to tell me Nixon did not tell The Kangaroos they could do this with Mr Carey... anything for another BMW in Ricky's driveway...

no not at all rooboy more than likely ricky is on the phone to wayne as we speak.like i said every other club will be now looking into this option until the afl can do something about it or more to the point have any legal standing to {A} close this loophole {B}interfere with a players right to do whatever he feels with his registered web site for example.
cheers!

 

[SydneyBomber]

Mea Culpa

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
Oh and BTW spare me the name calling - its boring and stupid

True, I'm having a bad day at work, and that was a little over the top.
My apologies.

And on your other points, we may just have to 'agree to disagree'...

 

[Dan26]

Essendon have done nothing wrong in this case. The AFL knows all about the deal, and if the AFL think it contravenes the salary cap rules, then they will disallow it. If the AFL thinks it is OK, then they will let it go.

Essendon is saying it is a commercial transaction, and totally independant of the salary cap, which is true. However, the AFL will be the judge of whether the deal is "fair" or not.

What is "unfair", is clubs like North Melbourne (and several others) who openly cheat the salry cap and DON'T get penalised for it. If you get penalised, for something (i.e do the crime an do the time) you are effectively back at square one, after you have done the time. If you havn't done the "time", then you are the most guilty of all.

If find it frustrating that Essendon are being labelled cheaters when :

a.) They have already been punished for going over the salary cap

b.) 12 of the 16 clubs have gone over the cap at one time or another and don't get the same accusations

c.) Some of these clubs didn't even get punished

d.) Essendon havn't done anything wrong this time, and it is up to the AFL whether they beleive that the Matthew Lloyd internet deal is all fair and above board.

 

[Shads]

The AFL knew about the deal months ago and gave approval but have since had a rethink and done a backflip.

For anyone to say it's not within the rules and is cheating please
tell me where in the rule book it say's it is.

 

[Port01]

Regardless of the cheating issue, it certainly opens up a can of worms as far as the salary cap goes.

Anyone that thinks it would just remain 'sensible' business with sites only being paid what they are worth as a site are simply deluding themselves.