Excuses?

[Jeremias]

Please tell me we have most of out better players out.
I know its only a practise match, but 91 points...

so beagle-charlie...do u still think we will make the finals, possibly top 4, this year?

 

[stokesy]

practice match.
Let it slide.

for now

Just remember these pelicans jumping up and down about our demise atm.

We'll be back.
and the football world will shudder under our wrath.

I agree totally.

Every body should be happy it was a practice match.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

For those who went to the game, how did we do?
Not worried about the Tredreas Cornes' etc but the younger ones like Thomson, Ebert, Salopek, Chaplin, Pettigrew, Surjan, Symes & co.
Any news would be greatly appreciated as I do not trust or believe radio commentators as much as people on these boards.

Thanks

Danyl Pearce was the main destroyer, he has pace and silky skills. He'd take the ball out of the midfield and just turn and bawk players like they were witches hats.

Ebert wasnt bad either, he took a few strong marks on the lead IIRC.

Sorry dude, i really didnt know who the other players were.

 

[*PAF]

Danyl Pearce was the main destroyer, he has pace and silky skills. He'd take the ball out of the midfield and just turn and bawk players like they were witches hats.

Ebert wasnt bad either, he took a few strong marks on the lead IIRC.
...

Thanks for that C4. Pearce has only played a few games but he is grabbing his chances bith both fists. Be interesting to see just how far he will develop over the next couple of years.
Good to hear about Ebert. From our point of view he doesn't need to star or anything like that at this stage, but just start showing consistency in the midfield as so far he has only ever played on the HFF.
[QUOTE='C4[2] ... Sorry dude, i really didnt know who the other players were. [/QUOTE]
Fair enough too as they are hardly household names. We are hoping that 3 out of that group will become regular 22 players. Not stars at this stage, but just solid "bottom of the 18" type standard if that makes sense.



On another note, good luck to you lot for the coming year. Only a few weeks to go.

 

[Silvagnis]

Ah, yes double whoops. I forgot your 1/2 game, and it was against us of all teams.
Maximum 4 wins per season over 2 consecutive seasons is correct.

It's only a practice game but I cursed that draw when they announced the changes to the priority picks rules.

 

[murphster]

Quote:
We don't know what Pagan was trying to achieve today. He obviously didn't want to get beaten by that much but guys may have been under strict instructions under certain circumstances. Who knows?

Strict instructions are the problem they don't use any inititive or flair they seem to be constricted to the point of being ineffective, give them some freedom to run and play some natural enjoyable footy instead of the staid conservitive uninventive brand of rubbish from the past 3 years. Back to basics is the only way forward for Carlton starting with kicking, handballing, tackling, evading and other basic drills that develop the basic set of skills needed to play AFL Football. If i saw that was the case i wouldn't mind losing by 99 points as at least we would be doing something different from previous seasons.

On the positive side i think Lance was sensational when played loose in defence also 1AW was excellent on Motlop and despite what other reports say he beat him a lot of the time, Murphy showed his class and showed the doubters his kicking ability by delivering a number of kicks lace out, one of the best pieces of play was a gather by Russell in the middle of the ground he then kicked a worm burner to Murphy who turned and hit Fish on the lead, the first piece of descent kicking up until that point which was the second term, midway through from memory. Hartlett showed plenty and i was rapt with his contesting work, Setanta showed Fev what second efforts are all about with his chasing and harrassing, Bentick tried hard but with the thrashing we got in the midfield i will stay away from that part of the ground for now. Fish was sensational again constantly on the move and taking marks left right and centre, Houlihan i won't talk about due to anger management issues, for me not him, same with Scotland. The usual suspects that put in every week did so again in Lappin, Stevens, Kouta, Lance(who i already mentioned)best on ground for us i think, Mclaren showed some aggro and a willingness to bump heads with the opposition which was good to see, Davies came on and did some good things including showing the others how to kick for goal, has talent to burn and could easily turn into a Nathan Brown type Forward if he applied himself which is the big question, or even like a Russell Robertson as he has the leap and can take the big grabs and a descent shot on goal as well. Eddie worries me has a lot of trouble getting the ball and when he does seems to never have room, maybe just needs more experience.
Anyway as you can see after a good nights sleep i managed to find positives out of the massacre and have managed to get my anger under control and as usual i am now looking forward to next week with a little bit of optimism, by next Friday i will be recharged and ready to push for the Blues to make the finals.

PS: Sorry about the punctuation not my strong suit although the spelling should be alright.

 

[Funkalicous]

Anyway as you can see after a good nights sleep i managed to find positives out of the massacre and have managed to get my anger under control and as usual i am now looking forward to next week with a little bit of optimism, by next Friday i will be recharged and ready to push for the Blues to make the finals.

I think we all needed a good night's sleep.

Thanks for the report, Murphster. It's good to know there were some positives.

 

[pauld]

Can't bite my tongue any longer...
There are massive problems with the side, down to several reasons, being in my opinion:
lack of body strength: We often are out muscled and pushed off the ball way too easily. Added to this is if you don't have big bodies, how can your slight framed bodies tackle a big body effectively ? Just watch the NAB Cup game vs Geelong to see that we fail in the big body department.
kids: Our kids seem to take a long time to develop. Just look at new to the AFL Thomas at Collingwood, and the boys at Hawthorn. All are much more advanced than our kids I reckon, why ?
defence: We all know we have a shocking back line, Saddington may help, Livingstone may improve, but there are a few too many "mays" there for my liking. The rumpurs over the last two years that we may get Mal Michael and Wirrpunda sounded very good at the time, we need defenders badly. I agree with all those who say Thornton is shot..he is not tall enough, not fast enough, not strong enough...need I say more ?
the coach: why oh why do we play this long bomb to the forward line routine when we do not have a player capable of the big mark. Denis HAS to realise he does not have the luxury of a young Wayne Carey up there to mark everything. Very frustrating and disheartening to see the boys win it hard in midfield, then waste it by bombing long to a no contest..only had to see the glee in the eys of Scarlet in that NAB Cup game to see it is a wrong game plan. Also, why does Denis play the skilful players in stupid negating defensive roles ? OK, the theory is Walker will learn from the best by playing on them...wrong...it only shatters his confidence when he is soundly beaten by the best. Put him in a free roving role to display his skills, not to negate other players skills...what a waste of talent.
If Denis keeps the kids in the twos for most of the season while playing the duds (Houlihan/Wiggins/Sporn/etc) then he deserves to be sacked..YES, SACKED !!
Go for broke, play the kids, give them freedom to show their stuff...playing hacks and hampering the kids development will destroy the clubs morale. Teams like Richmond and Hawthorn are not scared to play youth from day one...nor should we.
players: They all need to knuckle down and stick up for themselves, approach Denis and staff and say why they are being flogged. The playing group really need a strong leader and to get their heads right (and MUCH MORE WEIGHT TRAINING)
Although Kouta was a great player in his day, he was no captain..way too quiet and introverted for that difficult job, Stevens wont do much better.
I want to single out Lappin to...from what I have seen of him so far...he does look disinterested and is playing for himself (stat gathering).
No doubt at all that he is a bit upset over the contract dispute he had..and is showing it by not giving enough to the team.
new players: Murphy looks OK, but frighteningly their are a few kids from the same draft listed below him who are more impressive ATM for their clubs.
Just hope the other kids can stand up very fast for us...we need them, badly.
We can only hope Josh Kennedy is something special, as Fev has been worked out by the opposition, DeLuca cant mark, or kick well. Possibly Setanta can be something, possibly.
All in all it is early days, but the writing is on the wall...there has not been an improvement since last winter, in fact the team play looks worse.
Apart from all that...C'arn the Blues !!! (maybe in 2010)....sigh.

 

[murphster]

I think we all needed a good night's sleep.

Thanks for the report, Murphster. It's good to know there were some positives.

Thanks for the feedback Funk.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

After a good night's sleep, I have decided ...... that I am still ********ed off that we wasted an opportunity to keep the membership meter ticking over and might have set our off field cause back a loooong way.

I have concerns about our onfield stocks and the application of some players but are more concerned with survival issues.

 

[murphster]

After a good night's sleep, I have decided ...... that I am still ********ed off that we wasted an opportunity to keep the membership meter ticking over and might have set our off field cause back a loooong way.

I have concerns about our onfield stocks and the application of some players but are more concerned with survival issues.

Agree i don't think we would have sold to many memberships yesterday even with the free upgrade. I don't think people realise how close we are to oblivion if we keep this up we could be heading the same way as Fitzroy, at least with some good performances early like last year we get members and sponsors, this year will be dire for both by the looks of it. We need a strong carasmatic President to push the Carlton bandwagon the only time you hear about Collins is when he falls off a ladder or wants to criticise the playing list. As much as i hate Eddie someone like him is exactly what the doctor ordered.

 

[JeffDunne]

Did they really refer to Marc Murphy as "Justin" during the jumper presentation?

 

[murphster]

Did they really refer to Marc Murphy as "Justin" during the jumper presentation?

Surely not even we couldn't be that unproffesional, then again.

 

[JeffDunne]

Surely not even we couldn't be that unproffesional, then again.

A Carlton supporter on SEN this morning reported it.

 

[Funkalicous]

After a good night's sleep, I have decided ...... that I am still ********ed off that we wasted an opportunity to keep the membership meter ticking over and might have set our off field cause back a loooong way.

I have concerns about our onfield stocks and the application of some players but are more concerned with survival issues.

Somehow we have to make the club more attractive in the eyes of sponsers.
I too would suggest a Hawthorn esque approach whereby we load the team with as much young talent that we can muster.

If we can't be good, let's be exciting. Become the baby blues.

 

[av76]

I was at the game and agree with most of what Murphster and Pauld said.

There are some positives to come out of it such as Russel and Walker looking like being good potential half-back line players.
I also watched Bower and he looks pretty good to me...has some good size.
We will rely on the usual again and looks like Kouta will have to play the most minute in the AFL if we are to be competitive.

I agree with the previous sentiments about playing talent and that is all. If we want to minimise the losses play the 23-24 years olds in the spots 10th to 18th spots. Maybe its time just to give the skilled ones a chance and accept the beltings in return for figuring out who can actually play in a premiership side....no point playing people with great attitudes who can't hit a target from 20 meters out. Sure if the lesser like mid-20s players are playing absolutely brilliant in the 2s give them chance - talking about guys like of Sporn, Bannister, Prenderghast, Chambers Longmuir, Teague, Wiggins even the better ones like McGrath and Scotland. But they have to be playing off their faces. If they are just filling a spot without creating attacking play and hitting targets, play the kids...even play guys like Edwards or promote Jesse Smith, Jackson . Davies needs to be given a chance too...he's got talent but has confidence issues, he needs to be told he has several weeks in the ones and not pulled on and off the bench and relegated to the twos after five minutes on the ground.

If we play the kids, all I would expect is for them to man up properly, which is something Port did but we didn't. Also, I would like to see someone hit Fev on the chest after a simple lead. No point having mature bodies out there if they are incapable of hitting targets.

Here's an example of what I think would be out most talented side on paper. Livo is not really that skilled but the reality is that we need him to take the gorillaz for season or two. Don't want guys like Hartlett or Bower getting too battered early in their careers. Personally think Livo could still be a good but not brilliant stopper. Unfortunately gorillas take a while to develop.

Round 1
B: Hartlett, Livo, Carrazzo
HB:Walker, Thornton, Russell
C: Lappin, Bentick, Simpson
HF: Houlihan, Waite, Whitnall
F: Fisher, Fev, Davies

R: French, Kouta, Stevens

Interchange: McClaren, Murphy Bower, Betts. (Kennedy when he gets back).

 

[mediumsizered]

After a good night's sleep, I have decided ...... that I am still ********ed off that we wasted an opportunity to keep the membership meter ticking over and might have set our off field cause back a loooong way.

I have concerns about our onfield stocks and the application of some players but are more concerned with survival issues.

I'm with you ODN. One good night's sleep does not overcome the sadness I am feeling about our plight at the moment.

Losing a practice match is not the issue (our great sides of the '70s & 80s very rarely won practice matches). It is the type of headline that is generated by such a massive defeat that concerns me. Coming on top of Caro's hatchet job re: the CBF and a $2.5 million loss (I think she fudged that figure) and the latest plan to sell the lease of Princes Park to the AFL, we don't appear to have a brand that is marketable to potential (and previous) members or potential sponsors.

An indication in the practice matches that we are heading in the right direction is what the club needs. A Walker or a Russell or a Bentick playing a blinder in a practice game is what we want to be reading about. How much mileage are the Lions getting out of the impressive showings of Scott Harding and Mitch Clark? I dont care if we win or lose the practice games, but there has to be something positive coming out of these games to sell to potential members and sponsors. It is not enough to see that Stevens, Lappin, Kouta, Whitnall etc have performed well, as usual. We need to see the younger brigade stepping up. As an example, if it is true that 'Carrots had 42 disposals and kicked 5 goals for the Bullants, yesterday, he should be running around in the seniors all year and getting significant ground time. Loosen the reins on the young blokes and most importantly give them a guarantee that they are going to get several consecutive games and let's see what they have to offer. At the end of the day, if we get thumped, we can at least say we had an inexperienced team. If we are getting thumped with some of the more mature players in the team, we then have no excuses and we look ridiculous.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Vote Marcus Clarke and Greg Lee.
Out Pavlou and Valmorbeda.

start bringing in some fresh blood .... god knows we need it!

 

[BlueWorld]

Did they really refer to Marc Murphy as "Justin" during the jumper presentation?

Yes

 

[bmaurizio]

The Heatley Stand I'm with yeah. Direction and leadership must come from top and the current board is stale and ain't going any where fast.
Inspirational and business savvy carlton people. It's time to change.
Ciao

 

[Silvagnis]

Can't bite my tongue any longer...
There are massive problems with the side, down to several reasons, being in my opinion:
lack of body strength: We often are out muscled and pushed off the ball way too easily. Added to this is if you don't have big bodies, how can your slight framed bodies tackle a big body effectively ? Just watch the NAB Cup game vs Geelong to see that we fail in the big body department.

Livo, Wiggins and Sporn are bigger but they still aren't any good.

kids: Our kids seem to take a long time to develop. Just look at new to the AFL Thomas at Collingwood, and the boys at Hawthorn. All are much more advanced than our kids I reckon, why ?

Who is Thomas from Collingwood?

Dale Thomas hasn't done anything and Hawthorn were lucky enough to bottom out last year and get A graders. We just need to make Lance look good this year and then hopefully someone will bite this year. I still think we should have traded Lance to Melbourne even though we might have ended up with the same player.

Livingstone may improve, but there are a few too many "mays" there for my liking. The rumpurs over the last two years that we may get Mal Michael and Wirrpunda sounded very good at the time, we need defenders badly. I agree with all those who say Thornton is shot..he is not tall enough, not fast enough, not strong enough...need I say more ?

Don't, please!

the coach: why oh why do we play this long bomb to the forward line routine when we do not have a player capable of the big mark. Denis HAS to realise he does not have the luxury of a young Wayne Carey up there to mark everything. Very frustrating and disheartening to see the boys win it hard in midfield, then waste it by bombing long to a no contest..only had to see the glee in the eys of Scarlet in that NAB Cup game to see it is a wrong game plan. Also, why does Denis play the skilful players in stupid negating defensive roles ? OK, the theory is Walker will learn from the best by playing on them...wrong...it only shatters his confidence when he is soundly beaten by the best. Put him in a free roving role to display his skills, not to negate other players skills...what a waste of talent.
If Denis keeps the kids in the twos for most of the season while playing the duds (Houlihan/Wiggins/Sporn/etc) then he deserves to be sacked..YES, SACKED !!
Go for broke, play the kids, give them freedom to show their stuff...playing hacks and hampering the kids development will destroy the clubs morale. Teams like Richmond and Hawthorn are not scared to play youth from day one...nor should we.

We should be playing the kids but if they're not physically ready or carrying injuries it would be a stupid decision. If we do they might end up like Livingston who was thrown to the wolves before he was physically ready a few years back and had his confidence shattered.

new players: Murphy looks OK, but frighteningly their are a few kids from the same draft listed below him who are more impressive ATM for their clubs.

The draft isn't about how good they look today but how good they are in three years time. I'd prefer Judd but you can't split Judd, Ball and Hodge as a future champion this year.

To date only Clark has done something in a practice match and I haven't heard Hawks fans bemoaning the fact they picked Ellis at three. The pace will step up another gear come round one and since he has a broken thumb he might not even be playing.

 

[Silvagnis]

Vote Marcus Clarke and Greg Lee.
Out Pavlou and Valmorbeda.

start bringing in some fresh blood .... god knows we need it!

Did they make bad moves on the weekend?

Wrong thread!

 

[XXX KINGS]

I was sitting in front of the coaches box yesterday during the second half of the match. Unfortunately I didn't think to peek in whilst the match was playing, however at the end of the game, I had a glance and Dennis was basically sitting there motionless. I have a feeling that the loss really stung him bad. I don't know how much can be read into that but I would have hoped he would have charged into the rooms and gave them an absolute spray. Practise match or not, yesterday's match was apalling. Simple skill errors were made that the fact it was only a practise match does not excuse them. The players, including the more senior players, look absolutely lost. There is no direction and also no apparent game plan.

When I got home my dad was asking me for the positives from the game. As hard as I tried to conjure some up, I found very few. Murphy looks like a bonafide star! Future Carlton captain I hope. Walker showed signs that he is ever improving and Russel did some good things. That was all the positives I could find.

What I also told him though, was that the club appears to be heading in no direction. He agreed with me. It has reached the stage now where not only can I not blame the draft penalties, but I can't even blame the previous poor drafting for our misfortune.

Dennis Pagan has been at the club since pre 2003. He has had the 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005 trading and drafting periods as well as the 2006 pre season draft. That doesn't seem to be such a long time, however, for a coach who receives one of the largest salaries for someone in his position in the AFL it isn't. This isn't a shot at Dennis, moreso at the club, if we are going to pay that money for a coach we should be seeing some results. If anything, just a glimmer of hope.

Wouldn't it be more efficient to pay a young, up and coming coach, much similar to Alistair Clarkson, to coach the club. The way it is now, if we fail to start seeing a light at the end of the tunnel before season's end, some heads are gonna roll.

We can't keep living in John Elliots shadow. Yes, he and his regime almost single handedly buried our club into the ground, and we would never have seen ourselves in the predicament we are in if it were not for them. However, if we keep looking at things that way we will continue to go further backwards.

We should be looking at the now, the problems we have and how to fix them. Ian Collins is not doing the club any good whatsoever. For a club with a corporate image as bad as ours at the moment, what has he done to improve it. In his three years in charge he has done diddly squat. Will some please send out and S.O.S to Mike Fitzpatrick. We are drowning, please save us, PLEASE!

Usually I am one of the most optimistic Carlton supporters. I like to think of myself as a loyal supporter. Last year I went to all Melbourne played games for the season, even though I didn't need to go to discover what the result was going to be. I don't think I have missed more that ten Melbourne played games since I was given my first carlton membership when I was six years old in 1996. I had to drag my dad to come along with me to the matches last year as it was so hard to witness what was ocurring on the field. I know it is much harder for him to come to terms with our current situation than myself, He witnessed the great years during the 70s, 80s and 90s. I unfortunately only get to see them on Fox Footy.

Yesterday it all boiled over for me. During the off season, I was thinking new season, new hope. I dont want to judge our whole season on a simple practice match, however, we were playing what was effectively our full side. I'm not going to stop attending games no matter how low we fall, the club needs all the support it can get right now. Any supporters out there, especially those who have seen more premierships than 1995, who live in Melbourne and can financially afford a membership, but are to stuck up to buy one can rot for all I am concerned. In my opinion it shows your true colours.

It is imperative that all true carlton supporters stand united, because without us the club we all love is going to die a slow death

 

[MeeSo]

Pathetic performance but not overly surprising. The players tend to fall apart pretty easily. Not sure whether that's Pagan's fault or the players are just mentally weak. Probably a combination of the two.

 

[celtic_pride]

Sadly I can see a repeat of this sometime during the h@a season. Least we have Bryce Gibbs to look foward to in 2007. And hopefully a Pagan-free Carlton.