Society/Culture Feminism - 2017 Thread - Pt II

[Snake_Baker]

What could possibly go wrong by lowering the bar for selection of people who will be designing bridges or saving lives in emergencies?

One things certain, you'll be branded an arsehole if you point it out when it creates a problem.

"Feelings" rule people now. The marketing people won.

 

[woota]

What could possibly go wrong by lowering the bar for selection of people who will be designing bridges or saving lives in emergencies?

We better lower the ATAR requirements so that people with an intellectual disability can become engineers. We don't want to discriminate.

 

[woota]

Same thing's happening with firefighting benchmarks & standards as well.

Which has of course already happened with military and law enforcement. When these fields lose their male exclusivity, a decline in performance and output is inevitable.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Which has of course already happened with military and law enforcement. When these fields lose their male exclusivity, a decline in performance and output is inevitable.

Amost like it's designed to achieve macro socio-political outcomes, hey?

 

[FireKrakouer]

One things certain, you'll be branded an arsehole if you point it out when it creates a problem.

"Feelings" rule people now. The marketing people won.

The thing is, I'm actually willing to give an inch and suggest that maybe quotas could be a good thing in some situations. The right wing complain about the amount of welfare spent on the indigenous, so should not complain if indigenous youngsters get given a leg up in order to break the cycle of poverty and addiction they may stuck be in.

But emergency services is not where I'd start. They must remain a meritocracy. There are thousands of industries where having a less qualified candidate won't likely result in death/disaster.

 

[Snake_Baker]

The thing is, I'm actually willing to give an inch and suggest that maybe quotas could be a good thing in some situations.

I can't see how not selecting the best candidate is in any way a good thing.

This is sold on the premise that women are somehow victims in the contemporary setting, which is unmitigated bullshit.

Politically, it's about votes.

 

[woota]

I can't see how not selecting the best candidate is in any way a good thing.

This is sold on the premise that women are somehow victims in the contemporary setting, which is unmitigated bulls**t.

Politically, it's about votes.

This is actually going to turn women into victims in a roundabout way. Imagine you're an engineering firm looking to fill a position and you have a male candidate and a female candidate. Automatically, you know the female candidate is suspect because the entry barrier is lower for them and they haven't had to jump through the same hoops to get there as the man has. You think the male applicant is the best candidate for the job, but you hire the female over him because you have to meet your government-enforced gender quota. How can women be taken seriously when they will gain entry to university and employment based on their gender instead of academic merit?

This is literally saying to women "you can't compete with men, you are not as capable as men, but we'll just pretend you are and change the rules to give you this massive advantage over them."

Do women themselves actually stand for this sh*t? I would really like to know.

 

[Snake_Baker]

This is actually going to turn women into victims in a roundabout way. Imagine you're an engineering firm looking to fill a position and you have a male candidate and a female candidate. Automatically, you know the female candidate is suspect because the entry barrier is lower for them and they haven't had to jump through the same hoops to get there as a man has. You think the male applicant is the best candidate for the job, but you hire the female over him because you have to meet your government-enforced gender quota. How can women be taken seriously when they will gain entry to university and employment based on their gender instead of academic merit?

This is literally saying to women "you can't compete with men, you are not as capable as men, but we'll just pretend you are give and change the rules to give you this massive advantage over them."

Do women themselves actually stand for this sh*t? I would really like to know.

The high neurosis ones maybe, but I think women in general are a hell of a lot smarter than that.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I'm saying that by changing the rules to make it easier for women, they are conceding that women can't compete with men if the playing field is level, or at least that's the message they are sending women.

I'd say they would just be interested in grabbing the good fortune that elevates their opportunity, the same way that males would in the same circumstances.

 

[CM86]

Do they still need to complete the same degree as everyone else?
If yes, what's the problem?

How are they sub par if they complete the same degree??

What an emotional reaction.

The argument should be that it's not fair that a lower ATAR takes the place of a higher ATAR, based on gender.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Do they still need to complete the same degree as everyone else?
If yes, what's the problem?

How are they sub par if they complete the same degree??

What an emotional reaction.

What about the males with 10 fewer ATAR points who wanted to be engineers?

I'm constantly astounded by how mindbogglingly simple you are.

 

[CM86]

What about the males with 10 fewer ATAR points who wanted to be engineers?

I'm constantly astounded by how mindbogglingly simple you are.

ATAR score doesn't matter. You still need to complete the degree...

So complaining that female graduate engineers would be sub par, because they might have had a lower ATAR is ... "mindbogglingly simple".


There are plenty of options for anyone with an ATAR too low, to still enter many degrees.

 

[Snake_Baker]

ATAR score doesn't matter. You still need to complete the degree...

So complaining that female graduate engineers would be sub par, because they might have had a lower ATAR is ... "mindbogglingly simple".

There are plenty of options for anyone with an ATAR too low, to still enter many degrees.

You are incapable of intelligent thought.

Don't waste my time again.

 

[CM86]

You are incapable of intelligent thought.

Don't waste my time again.

Sorry.

 

[Fadge]

ATAR score doesn't matter. You still need to complete a degree

Yep, 35 ATAR is the equivalent of 99 ATAR.

How can one argue with that?

 

[Snake_Baker]

Yep, 35 ATAR is the equivalent of 99 ATAR.

How can one argue with that?

Please, don't feed it.

There's only so much stupid that I can handle in any given 24 hours.

 

[CM86]

Yep, 35 ATAR is the equivalent of 99 ATAR.

How can one argue with that?

The argument should be that it's not fair that a lower ATAR takes the place of a higher ATAR, based on gender.

But arguing that someone with an engineering degree is sub par, because they entered with a lower national score, doesn't somehow take away the fact that they have completed the engineering degree.

You don't magically get a degree just because you're accepted at university.

And there have been bridging options for a long long time.
Some people went to university without even having an ATAR. They still had to complete the degree...

Sorry for posting again Snake. Hope you're ok.

 

[Fadge]

But arguing that someone with an engineering degree is sub par, because they entered with a lower national score, doesn't somehow take away the fact that they have completed the engineering degree.

You don't magically get a degree just because you're accepted at university.

And there have been bridging options for a long long time.
Some people went to university without even having an ATAR. They still had to complete the degree...

Sorry for posting again Snake. Hope you're ok.

Yes, because anything you do in life is acceptable, as long as you are at minimum the lowest common denominator (even after the bar has been lowered).

 

[Fadge]

What about the males with 10 fewer ATAR points who wanted to be engineers?

I'm constantly astounded by how mindbogglingly simple you are.

No. A female with an ATAR score 10 points lower is more qualified than a male with an ATAR score 2 points lower, just because..

 

[ShanDog]

Victoria Police have lowered standards yet again in order to meet their gender equality target of 50% female recruits.

The force's approach to the strict pass/fail fitness test will be modified so recruits who fall slightly short of the grade can be accepted as long as they meet other key criteria.​

​

Those recruits will be given extra training so they can pass the fitness test at a later date.​

​

The force is changing its approach after it failed to reach a target of 50 per cent female recruits, despite vowing to tackle a culture of sexism in its ranks. Only 30 per cent of current police recruits are women.​

Police recruits given more chances to pass initial fitness test

Victoria Police recruits will be given more support to pass an initial physical fitness test to get into the force under reforms designed to get more women in the ranks.

www.theage.com.au

The fitness test is not hard. A 5.1 beep test, five push-ups on toes, holding a plank for 60 seconds and a 30-kilogram grip test in each hand. The beep test has been lowered from 6.1 which was already pretty easy. The height criteria was abandoned some time ago.

During Overland's time they modified the required equipment because some 'smaller members' (ie females) struggled to manage the weight and bulk of all the items carried on a police utility belt -- such as a baton, firearm, radio, capsicum spray can and handcuffs.

Here's a radical idea. How about keeping standards that are in line with the requirements of the job, rather than based on ideological positions which have no validity.

Holy s**t. How does that even qualify as a fitness test? That's legitimately only going to weed out morbidly obese people and emaciated waifs.

 

[quotemokc]

This is what misandry looks like:

Are they going to do the same thing to get more males into veterinary science?

 

[Taylor]

But arguing that someone with an engineering degree is sub par, because they entered with a lower national score, doesn't somehow take away the fact that they have completed the engineering degree.

You don't magically get a degree just because you're accepted at university.

And there have been bridging options for a long long time.
Some people went to university without even having an ATAR. They still had to complete the degree...

Sorry for posting again Snake. Hope you're ok.

The passing of the degree is the only side of it that won't be able to be political..

The uni wouldn't lower the standards required to pass the tests, it won't have a different standard for women. They have no history of doing that.

..

In all seriousness they shouldn't compromise what a degree is worth so that's not a problem. The issue has always been getting the women interested in the first place.

 

[quotemokc]

The passing of the degree is the only side of it that won't be able to be political..

The uni wouldn't lower the standards required to pass the tests, it won't have a different standard for women. They have no history of doing that.

..

In all seriousness they shouldn't compromise what a degree is worth so that's not a problem. The issue has always been getting the women interested in the first place.

Why is it a problem if women are interested of not?

Veterinary sciences seems to have naturally shifted to being like 75% women and we don't seem to need more men in the field.

 

[Taylor]

Why is it a problem if women are interested of not?

Veterinary sciences seems to have naturally shifted to being like 75% women and we don't seem to need more men in the field.

I don't think it matters at all, but to those who think there are no differences between men and women it matters.

 

[DidakDelight]

You are incapable of intelligent thought.

Don't waste my time again.

Why be so aggressive dude?
You’re right after all.

They’ll be no doubt guided through the course e.g if they fail an assessment they’ll be retested on the parts they got wrong rather than resist the whole thing.

It won’t be the same course for both sexes that’s fo sho