Fevola for Bradshaw & Rischitelli?

[bluespur]

I am not sure how I feel about this trade,but what I do know that
no clubs were breaking the door down to sign him,lets move on if Bradshaw and Rischitelli become Blue baggers I will welcome them with open arms as for Fev he could have been one of our greats but he is a knob and I am very annoyed at him for letting this happen.Screwed or not screwed time will tell but Fev had to go. Very sad for the club but the club is bigger than Fev

 

[Big Red is back]

He said, however, that the message delivered by Lions coach Michael Voss on Wednesday was crystal clear.

"They've basically told him that he's not loved there anymore and he'll get to Carlton today and they'll tell him how much they do love him," Olarenshaw said.

"I guess then Michael's got to make a decision probably back on the way to the airport."

Olarenshaw said it was open to his client to pledge his allegiance to the Lions, see out the final year of his current contract and take his chances from there.

"They'll say that he's not wanted to get the deal done ... but if the player can hold firm then Michael can back himself in to get a game," he said.

 

[TheNumber4]

So now we are going to be relying on our midfield to kick all our goals

It's called sharing the workload and not being so predictable Juddanfi.

Geelong won the flag this year without an 80plus goal kicker.

 

[The Exorcist]

Didn't Bradshaw kick 58 goals in a multi-dimensional forward line this year, after missing some games?

Yes he's getting on, but it's not like he's crap as some people seem to think.

He's actually a very good player who will be receiving from a better midfield than what he had at Brissy

And don't know how many times this has to be said, but Fev's value was not as high as some seem to think because of his off field antics and this is why few clubs showed interest in him. The best deal you get is the best offer that is made. Fev is damaged goods

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

I like that we have strengthened our midfield and i completely understand about moving Fev on - i agree with the club's stance on Fev.

But lets not sugarcoat reality with the upcoming 2010 season.

1) We have only two talls right now that completely cut it at AFL level. That is Waite and Thornton that look completely comfortable. Bower comes next but is still nervous sometimes! Jamison, Kruezer (as a KPP fwd) are just behind behind Bower, and then there is a slight gap to Austin/Setanta/Cloke.

We bring in Bradshaw which is nice but we have no quality depth next year at least if one of Waite/Thornton/Bradshaw goes down. Waite and Bradshaw are decent risks to stay on the park.

2) Does anyone remember how many times we went inside 50 in 2009 to only turn the ball over due to Fev being the only target. Unless Ratts comes up with a masterstroke plan, this will only become more painful in 2010.

We need to prepare for some frustrating times next year as we go inside 50 a gazilion times only to turn the ball over. I would have been more happy if Mclean and Rischitelli were elite kicks in Gibbs mould because our final pass is going to have to be perfect. Gibbs is going to be incredibly important next year for mine.

Again, i understand the trade for club reasons, but i'm also not sugar coating that 2010 could become very painful to watch sometimes!

KPP player numbers, and quality of KPP players are missing from our overall list.

 

[Mister Carlton]

No Fevola= RIP CARLTON or Rather Rest in Hell

 

[absfab]

I agree that Mclean and Riska are going to improve our midfield both are good in and under players that we desperately need. But basically we have improved our midfield at the detriment of our forward line.

Before the trade period we had an A Grade midfield, B grade forwardline and C grade backline.

After the trade period we have a A+ Grade midfield, C grade Forward line and C grade Backline.

We were much better off before the trade period.

Don't agree.

Mclean and Riska are types we seriously needed. They will be major positives in how we play the game and for our ability to adapt.

• Murphy is going to have a fun year in 2010.
• How about Gibbs in the two way tag role when required? Remember his game on Goodes?
• We now don't need to use Judd under packs all day or run him to exhaustion every week - though he'll still have that dimension to his game.
• We have the numbers to play creative midfield style players in all zones of the ground simultaneously.

If that makes us structurally a younger (and better) version of the Bulldogs in 2010 then that aint all bad. A very strong foundation to build on.

 

[Silvagnis]

Ill tell you a better deal that might have been done.

Hall + Pick 14 ---> Carlton
Jolly ---> Collingwood
Fevola ---> Sydney

Hall > Bradshaw
Pick 14 > Rischtelli

... still, it's easy to see all this in hindsight. Hall was gone to Dogs pretty early in on the piece so would have been hard for Carlton to forecast the Jolly trade and get the Swans to hold off on trading Hall.

That was never an option anywhere but the heads of people who thought we were trading a star forward we wanted to keep.

Sydney have a youth policy and wanted draft picks.

The Australian states that the Swans offered Richmond picks 6 and 14 for pick three.

They were never after a player with just four years left.

I agree that Mclean and Riska are going to improve our midfield both are good in and under players that we desperately need. But basically we have improved our midfield at the detriment of our forward line.

Before the trade period we had an A Grade midfield, B grade forwardline and C grade backline.

After the trade period we have a A+ Grade midfield, C grade Forward line and C grade Backline.

We were much better off before the trade period.

No shit Sherlock!

How would you have salvaged something from the train wreck that was Fevola at Carlton?

That stinking hairy elephant sitting in the corner would have destroyed our brand new facilities and culture if we had kept him. If Sydney or another club had chased Fevola, Carlton would have had to pay for him to kick goals against us next year.

This is the best possible deal with Brisbane paying all of his contract.

Getting Rischitelli and Bradshaw was a bonus.

Collingwood missing out on Fevola is brilliant.

 

[bLuEbOy1984]

they have just arrived in melbourne.. carlton officials picked the boys up.. i guess we will get a annoucement in a couple of hours

 

[bendigoblues]

i dont know how to feel about this trade.

Would Macdonald have been better than bradshaw?

Im not sad to see Fev go, he was great for us, but hey no flags came with it.

I love the club and the club are greater than the individual.

As for fevs scoring prowess, if i am to be positive about things, it would be to say that we really dont know what sort of forward structure we have or might have because we always kick to fev.

The opportunity is for the other forward players to step and and show what they can do. It means that we might be less predictable and opposition teams cannot just sit a player in fevs path to block his run.

Be positive people there are other teams that win with a spread of goal kickers.

 

[len_jet]

Brisbane >> first round pick, McDonald & Rischitelli
FOR
Carlton >> 2nd round pick, Fev

THEN

Doggies >> Everitt
FOR
Carlton >> 1st round pick from Brisbane

 

[Silvagnis]

Brisbane >> first round pick, McDonald & Rischitelli
FOR
Carlton >> 2nd round pick, Fev

THEN

Doggies >> Everitt
FOR
Carlton >> 1st round pick from Brisbane

Why didn't Swann and Icke think of that?

Pass.

Carlton doesn't get a forward and have lost a first round pick for an unproven player.

I don't want McDonald.

 

[len_jet]

Why didn't Swann and Icke think of that?

Pass.

Carlton doesn't get a forward and have lost a first round pick for an unproven player.

I don't want McDonald.

Well McDonald & Everitt gives us the flexibility to play Waite & Everitt up forward in different combinations along side Kruezer...

I think we all agree on the rischitelli part of the deal but I think massive question marks are over bradshaw and his body...

 

[BluesMan]

narr we got shat on!

 

[parrot]

This deal is so bad I can't even vote No. Speechless.

 

[Malifice]

Can I ask for those that selected 'bad deal' to come up with an alternative deal that would have got it done?

Some are good at identifying problems but not so good at offering solutions. There is zero accountability in that stand.

We dont need Bradshaw OR Riskatelly (however you spell it).

Bradshaw plugs a hole (at best) for one - two years, and Riscatelli is surplus to our needs and is likely a depth player at best (considering our current midfield).

I dont care if we 'shut the window' for the next 2-3 years while we develop Key forwards.

But we need KPP. And we need them 2 years ago.

Hold out till Friday see if we can wrangle something that nets us Pick 14 and Everitt in some form of threeway deal with the Swans and Dos.

Draft 2 talls with 14 + 27.

Also:

• Consider trading 27 for Thorpe from the Hawks.
• Try and poach McKinley.

We need to get rid of him, but not for this deal. Its not Friday yet!

 

[Blue Dimension]

I can't believe this move personally.

If Bradshaw has one bad year there will be calls for curtains on his career at the age of 31.

Rischitelli is a player who's the sweetener in the deal and is probably a player that never lived upto his potential.

And here's Brisbane getting a 29 year old fully fit Brendan Fevola to play with Jonathan Brown.

I always had faith in the club to make the right decisions but this really is just... god. It's so short sighted it makes me sick.

Expletives keep coming out of my mouth.

We dont need Bradshaw OR Riskatelly (however you spell it).

Bradshaw plugs a hole (at best) for one - two years, and Riscatelli is surplus to our needs and is likely a depth player at best (considering our current midfield).

I dont care if we 'shut the window' for the next 2-3 years while we develop Key forwards.

But we need KPP. And we need them 2 years ago.

Hold out till Friday see if we can wrangle something that nets us Pick 14 and Everitt in some form of threeway deal with the Swans and Dos.

Draft 2 talls with 14 + 27.

Also:

* Consider trading 27 for Thorpe from the Hawks.
* Try and poach McKinley.

We need to get rid of him, but not for this deal. Its not Friday yet!

This are exactly my thoughts, in a nutshell.

It's not like Brisbane are going to come out tomorrow and say the deal is off the table! And if they do then goodluck to them, we're getting shafted anyway!

 

[gbatman]

would be a good trade if we can get their first round draft pick, i would be adding Hadley to the trade to try and get it.

I would also look at getting Merret and a first round draft pick for Fevola even if it ment we had to knock back riskitelli and add Hadley.

Either way we must get their first round pick.

 

[Malifice]

Okay, but you do realise that Sydney have not expressed interest in Fevola at all don't you?

Neither did Brisbane. Exactly the same noises were coming from the Brisbane camp.

I have doubts that Hall > Bradshaw. He is 2 years older and more prone to frustration.

And as you point out, Hall has zero injuries. Bradshaw is almost definately on his last legs.

Our real window was never going to be next year.

Then why bother with Bradshaw? If we conceed that we're not winning a flag in the next year or two, why get him on the list at all?

Then we have the situation where Collingwood were not going to give up 14 while Fev was still on the market. They were stalling on the deal to see if they could nab him with that pick and a fringe player.

I prefer seeing him at Brisbane rather than Collingwood thats for sure.

Then we have to recognise that we have a gaping hole at full forward and Pick 14 is more of a speculator in this draft than other drafts.

If it was between a 50/50 chance of a decent player at #14 or Bradshaw for (at best) two years, Id take the 50/50.

Then we have to recognise that if he went to Collingwood, we would be paying more of Fev's salary than we will be at Brisbane.

A salient point.

Its the only part of the deal Im happy with - that we dont have to pay a cent of the tossers salary.

Seems the options were Collingwood for #14 and maybe Dawes, Brisbane for the current deal or stay with us and really watch the shit hit the fan.

You conceed above that other clubs (Collingwood) were waiting to see if they could nab him late, perhaps Sydney (amongst others) could also be waiting in the wings.

Who saw Brisbane coming FFS?

 

[Silvagnis]

Carlton will be shafted if we pull the deal and end up a $1.2 million white elephant that will level Visy Park. Anything is a bonus if they can play and they take that contract off our hands. Brisbane doesn't owe us a first round pick because they have the upper hand in this trade.

It will blow up in our face if we try to get more for Fevola.

Well McDonald & Everitt gives us the flexibility to play Waite & Everitt up forward in different combinations along side Kruezer...

I think we all agree on the rischitelli part of the deal but I think massive question marks are over bradshaw and his body...

I'd rather keep pick 14 than use it on Everitt.

We might be able to get Everitt with pick 27 if the Demons don't come in with an offer and the Dogs hold out.

And still have Bradshaw and Rischitelli.

Consider trading 27 for Thorpe from the Hawks.

Is Thorp your son, best friend, client or brother?

Bradshaw's body is arguably in better shape than Thorp's.

The Hawks can't even move Thorp on for Burgoyne three years after he was drafted with pick six.

Carlton needs to stay away from Thorp.

Even drafting Cleve Hughes in the PSD if he's delisted would be a wiser move than trading for Thorp.

 

[The Exorcist]

We dont need Bradshaw OR Riskatelly (however you spell it).

Bradshaw plugs a hole (at best) for one - two years, and Riscatelli is surplus to our needs and is likely a depth player at best (considering our current midfield).

I dont care if we 'shut the window' for the next 2-3 years while we develop Key forwards.

But we need KPP. And we need them 2 years ago.

Hold out till Friday see if we can wrangle something that nets us Pick 14 and Everitt in some form of threeway deal with the Swans and Dos.

Draft 2 talls with 14 + 27.

Also:

• Consider trading 27 for Thorpe from the Hawks.
• Try and poach McKinley.

We need to get rid of him, but not for this deal. Its not Friday yet!

It is Thursday, however, and it took till Wednesday afternoon for the first decent offer to come. Clubs don't seem interested in Fev. And as for pick 14, Fev at age 29 to Sydney just doesn't seem to fit into Sydney's rebuilding phase

And let's say we tried to "play" Brissy, would Brissy then go and shop elsewhere? They've been pretty active this week, if we played games would they think "F*ck this, we'll negotiate elsewhere."

We could've held out for something better, but by mid-Wednesday nothing had happened.

We got an offer, if we didn't take it then we could've ended up with something worse later, and then the Blues would be bagged for not taking the earlier deal.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't

 

[gbatman]

It's a wonder Hawthorn aren't after Fev, if they got him they could play Roughy in defence and hey presto, their tall defender problems mostly solved while still having an awesome forward line. Would we want thorp and their first rounder and maybe add Hadley for something extra?

You also would have thought St. Kilda might have been interested with a trade involving Kosi as Fev is far better than Kosi and would free Riewoldt up more. Maybe their cap is not good enough. I bet Carlton would take Kosi and if they had Fev instead of Kosi this year they would probably be premiers. Maybe add Hadley to replace Ball for their first round pick.

He fits collingwood pretty well but they are after midfielders more than they are key forwards although they do fall appart agaist good sides in the tall forward department.

It's also a wonder the doggies aren't throwing what they have at us for him as Fev + Hall would be hard to contain with their midfield. It would nearly guarantee them a flag but it might be at too big of a cost and might overload their cap.

Geelong wouldn't be able to afford him.

Essendon don't need him.

Sydney shouldn't want him.

He fits in perfect in Brisbane as he massivly upgrades Bradshaw and is younger. They might want Hadley as they are weak in the middle and are losing Riskatelli. Perhaps adding Hadley might see us get their first round pick or even get Merret instead. Doubt they would let Merret go.

WCE, Adelaide = no, not required.

Richmond, Freo, Port = no, too old.

 

[Kramer1]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't

Pretty well sums up being a Carlton supporter on BF.

We want to trade Fev and opposition supporters laugh at us because he only has two good years left. Now all of a sudden he is at his peak and Brisbane have five years of Fev's finest to look forward to.

We reprimand him and we are being too soft, we offer him for trade and we are clearly bluffing, we look like going through with it and now all hope is lost, and what do we think we are doing trading out our most important player?

Bradshaw has kicked 3.5 goals a game over the last two years and single handedly put us out of the finals a few weeks back. Now that he is coming to Carlton he is clearly hobbled with injury and will be lucky to see out 2010. Yet Hall at 2 years older, who offers less on the field and with concerns over the state of his noggin is a great get for the Bulldogs.

Rischitelli has played every game for the last three years, has tackle counts that put anyone at Carlton to shame, and seems an all round good inclusion...link him to the Blues and he becomes a plodder who is fringe at best.

I suppose if they are still talking about us we must be doing something right.

 

[gbatman]

Kramer1 is pretty spot on, but we should be trying to get more. With Mclean at Carlton and maybe Riskatelli Hadley is of no use to us, we must be looking to add him to the trade and get back into round 1 of the draft.

 

[Salaryman]

Pretty well sums up being a Carlton supporter on BF.

We want to trade Fev and opposition supporters laugh at us because he only has two good years left. Now all of a sudden he is at his peak and Brisbane have five years of Fev's finest to look forward to.

We reprimand him and we are being too soft, we offer him for trade and we are clearly bluffing, we look like going through with it and now all hope is lost, and what do we think we are doing trading out our most important player?

Bradshaw has kicked 3.5 goals a game over the last two years and single handedly put us out of the finals a few weeks back. Now that he is coming to Carlton he is clearly hobbled with injury and will be lucky to see out 2010. Yet Hall at 2 years older, who offers less on the field and with concerns over the state of his noggin is a great get for the Bulldogs.

Rischitelli has played every game for the last three years, has tackle counts that put anyone at Carlton to shame, and seems an all round good inclusion...link him to the Blues and he becomes a plodder who is fringe at best.

I suppose if they are still talking about us we must be doing something right.

You are describing a variant of 'framing effects'....the way scenarios are described has a strong influence on subsequent decision making.....some posters are taking liberty with 'framing' to support their beliefs......

or put simply, if you keep rehashing your own bulltish for long enough, you'll eventually start to believe it........




also known in some circles as the Parrot effect