Opinion First Captain under Walsh?

[Bay62]

I'm a conspiracy theorist, not moon landing/martin Bryant stuff, but I like to read into things a bit. There's a chance, however small, that VB isn't the perfect team first person that he is described as. He may have been told that it's highly likely he wouldn't be captaining in 2015 and offered the opportunity to resign citing quite reasonable factors - returning from injury, 2013 not the best year so concentrating on own game, generational change with outstanding candidates, still a leader etc. Those factors are not 'spin', they are real and relevant to VB's ability to captain the team, potentially from the 2's. Maybe VB refused to resign the position forcing the issue to be handled in the way it was. I would find it hard to believe that it wasn't clear to Walsh etc that VB wasn't going to captain in 2015 and wasn't afforded the opportunity to step down sometime before Xmas.

Yes while we don't know what went on behind the scenes, from any angle the public handling of VBs position has a few question marks over it

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

This is no carefully planned, scripted handover where a celebrated mentor is handing over to his protege.

It's a club that has fallen flat on its face.

In the past we might have pretended otherwise to keep up appearances, even though we'd be fooling no one.

 

[1970crow]

This is no carefully planned, scripted handover where a celebrated mentor is handing over to his protege.

It's a club that has fallen flat on its face.

In the past we might have pretended otherwise to keep up appearances, even though we'd be fooling no one.

We know that. The question is whether VB was afforded the opportunity for it to play out like it does at every other club (Carey's wang aside) and chose not to. Or whether he was completely blind-sided because he'd been told that he was a lock and it was all for show. If he didn't have concerns about his ability to get the job done according to the clear description from Walsh, then he's either not in touch with where he's at as a footballer or he couldn't give a shit.

I find it difficult to believe that this topic was never raised between Walsh and VB. And from that VB wouldn't get some kind of vibe that he was going to struggle to keep the captaincy from one of Tex, Danger or Sloane. How could the captaincy transition be a complete oversight from the Coach to the Football Director (although I don't rate him as other do) to the footy delegates at board level. Surely, this isn't an eff-up and everything was done in an attempt to do this right. FFS, we knew the writing was on the wall as soon as Walsh referred to on-field performance. How does that escape everyone else at the club including the effing captain.

 

[Don Muraco]

I think this is happening.....

 

[fabs33]

Angus has apparently tweeted it's lucky he's not at the club anymore otherwise he would have lost it

Given he didn't play a single game for us I think it's more likely that he never found it to begin with.

 

[1970crow]

I think this is happening.....

Pretty poor illustration. If the mountain was made out of the molehill, then why is the molehill still visible.

 

[Jars458]

I think it's unfathomable that if vB had been given the message that he would not have fallen on his sword. Consummate club man.

Notwithstanding whether it was the correct choice, you'd be hard pressed to suggest that we couldn't have handled the decision better. 'Man conversation' or not.

all that matters is the future. Walsh made a choice and VB was up for consideration and he knew he had no guarantees. This is the real world not a teddy bears picnic. IMO VB will accept the decision and move on.

 

[DroppingTheBall]

Personally, I don't think aussie rules is a sport that even requires a captain. Not at the top level, with so many coaches and runners, the captain really has no special role on the field.

Hence I don't mind who it is. As we can see from the posts in this thread, it seems to have more negatives than positives. Dealing with egos, treating with respect, etc -- none of which has any consistency with a team-first culture.

 

[Carmo]

some people in here need to get a grip

VB wont give two turds about this.

If he did that would imply that 1) he gives a turd about what people outside of the club think of him ahead or equal to what people inside the club think of him and 2) that him and his image need to be put if not before the team then right up there near level with the team.

People assigned by the club to come up with the best leader for the club have done their best to do that. There is no malice towards VB. So many people think that one up equals one down, one up, the other the same is how it is.


Anyone that's ever seen VB go about his business knows that 1) if he didn't think tex was the best person for the job or it that there were better people for the job (if he didnt agree) he wouldnt have let slip the opportunity to say so but even if he protested then 2) once the final call is made he'll fully go along with it.

To be a good leader a key skill is how to be a good follower dont forget.

Yeah, yeah, so VB didnt get a managed handover of the captaincy. Too bad. We've got bigger fish to fry. If we could trade that effort for 1 guaranteed win next season then everyone including VB would take it in a second, a competitor like VB would be embarrased that some people think he couldn't take a setback like this. How do you push yourself through an AFL season if you wana cry when you missed out on being the captain??

Some of you in here need to realise that what you say / write shows how you go about things in the world and from what I can see a number in here never would have been anywhere near advanced levels in competitive sport or work, simply not the right mindsets, not even close.

 

[Carmo]

some people in here need to get a grip

VB wont give two turds about this.

If he did that would imply that 1) he gives a turd about what people outside of the club think of him ahead or equal to what people inside the club think of him and 2) that him and his image need to be put if not before the team then right up there near level with the team.

People assigned by the club to come up with the best leader for the club have done their best to do that. There is no malice towards VB. So many people think that one up equals one down, one up, the other the same is how it is.


Anyone that's ever seen VB go about his business knows that 1) if he didn't think tex was the best person for the job or it that there were better people for the job (if he didnt agree) he wouldnt have let slip the opportunity to say so but even if he protested then 2) once the final call is made he'll fully go along with it.

To be a good leader a key skill is how to be a good follower dont forget.

Yeah, yeah, so VB didnt get a managed handover of the captaincy. Too bad. We've got bigger fish to fry. If we could trade that effort for 1 guaranteed win next season then everyone including VB would take it in a second, a competitor like VB would be embarrased that some people think he couldn't take a setback like this. How do you push yourself through an AFL season if you wana cry when you missed out on being the captain??

Some of you in here need to realise that what you say / write shows how you go about things in the world and from what I can see a number in here never would have been anywhere near advanced levels in competitive sport or work, simply not the right mindsets, not even close.

Maybe I should have put it like this:

"The toughening up has begun............................................."

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

We know that. The question is whether VB was afforded the opportunity for it to play out like it does at every other club (Carey's wang aside) and chose not to. Or whether he was completely blind-sided because he'd been told that he was a lock and it was all for show. If he didn't have concerns about his ability to get the job done according to the clear description from Walsh, then he's either not in touch with where he's at as a footballer or he couldn't give a shit.

I find it difficult to believe that this topic was never raised between Walsh and VB. And from that VB wouldn't get some kind of vibe that he was going to struggle to keep the captaincy from one of Tex, Danger or Sloane. How could the captaincy transition be a complete oversight from the Coach to the Football Director (although I don't rate him as other do) to the footy delegates at board level. Surely, this isn't an eff-up and everything was done in an attempt to do this right. FFS, we knew the writing was on the wall as soon as Walsh referred to on-field performance. How does that escape everyone else at the club including the effing captain.

What i mean is that the chance to step aside gracefully went when our club went belly up

He's been dumped as captain for a better option

It's not a succession plan, so we would have been faking it if we tried to dress it up that way

 

[1970crow]

What i mean is that the chance to step aside gracefully went when our club went belly up

He's been dumped as captain for a better option

It's not a succession plan, so we would have been faking it if we tried to dress it up that way

Are you suggesting there was no way for VB to see this coming and choose to step aside before he got the ass.

 

[feenix67]

Are you suggesting there was no way for VB to see this coming and choose to step aside before he got the ass.

Why would he want to "step aside" if he still wanted the job? Remember the process, which was clearly spelt out at the outset. The squad picked the leadership group, the coach picked the captain. As soon as Walsh said he was going to pick the captain, vB had the option of bowing out "seeing the writing on the wall". That would have been the soft option, and vB isnt soft. So he put his hat in the ring, didnt get the gig, and will no doubt have the best season he can have for the club this year.

People here really need to drink some concrete.

 

[1970crow]

Why would he want to "step aside" if he still wanted the job? Remember the process, which was clearly spelt out at the outset. The squad picked the leadership group, the coach picked the captain. As soon as Walsh said he was going to pick the captain, vB had the option of bowing out "seeing the writing on the wall". That would have been the soft option, and vB isnt soft. So he put his hat in the ring, didnt get the gig, and will no doubt have the best season he can have for the club this year.

People here really need to drink some concrete.

That's one way to look at it. The other way is that VB has little awareness as to where he's at as a footballer. Whether you like it or not, this is a very rare event, most ex-captains have the good sense to see the writing on the wall and accept it's time to stand aside. That's the team first thing to do and VB failed in that regard.

We won't agree, you think this is a normal event that just requires a bit of concrete. I reckon VB's a selfish turd and should have given the new captain the clear air that they deserve.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Are you suggesting there was no way for VB to see this coming and choose to step aside before he got the ass.

I'm saying there's no way to fake it.

Fake press conference in November to preserve dignity and show respect
VB: I've decided it's time to step aside... hand the reins over to a younger player... we have been developing some really good leaders... allows me to concentrate fully on getting back form and fitness after 18 months without playing

Reality
PW: I've decided that I'm not going to appoint you as captain.

Do we go ahead with the fake press conference even though everyone knows it's BS? That would be more insulting to VB surely, getting him to recite some token face-saving spin.

It just seems that Walsh is fairly unimpressed with some areas of the club, the captaincy being one. The next two leaders we'd annointed another.

 

[FR0GGY]

I'm saying there's no way to fake it.

Ah, you need to chat to your partner, apparently there is. Not that I would know. Slippery Pete told me.

 

[1970crow]

I'm saying there's no way to fake it.

Fake press conference in November to preserve dignity and show respect
VB: I've decided it's time to step aside... hand the reins over to a younger player... we have been developing some really good leaders... allows me to concentrate fully on getting back form and fitness after 18 months without playing

Reality
PW: I've decided that I'm not going to appoint you as captain.

Do we go ahead with the fake press conference even though everyone knows it's BS? That would be more insulting to VB surely, getting him to recite some token face-saving spin.

It just seems that Walsh is fairly unimpressed with some areas of the club, the captaincy being one. The next two leaders we'd annointed another.

I don't see it that way. I see it as VB saying that he's no longer the best man to lead the team. It would be true, but I guess we're back to the point that maybe VB's not all that aware of where he sits as a footballer right now. I see that as a significant weakness on his behalf.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Ah, you need to chat to your partner, apparently there is. Not that I would know. Slippery Pete told me.

Sometimes you've just had enough and you want to go to sleep, you know?

 

[Southerntakeover]

For mine the messages were fairly explicit early in Walsh's tenure. He wanted a captain that primarily delivered on game day. He was clearly setting us up for a change in perception with the past. That's not to say VB can't deliver on gameday (although given last year, his spot in the best 22 is not beyond doubt at this point).
I don't think any falling on swords was required. Everything has change, there was no need, or obligation, to maintain gameplans, principles, leaders of the past. It was all done with a clean slate.

What do you think we should have done differently?

See, this is where I think we have a disconnect.

People are simultaneously saying that it was obvious from point 1 that vB didn't make the criteria, but also that we couldn't have dealt with his not being captain at an earlier junction. That's contradictory.

I also don't but this there's no need to treat people at your football club with respect line of thinking. Nothing would have been lost by dealing with it in a better way.

 

[Southerntakeover]

all that matters is the future. Walsh made a choice and VB was up for consideration and he knew he had no guarantees. This is the real world not a teddy bears picnic. IMO VB will accept the decision and move on.

On the plus side, I think I found the demographic that the 'man talk' line market tested well with

 

[Southerntakeover]

I'm saying there's no way to fake it.

Fake press conference in November to preserve dignity and show respect
VB: I've decided it's time to step aside... hand the reins over to a younger player... we have been developing some really good leaders... allows me to concentrate fully on getting back form and fitness after 18 months without playing

Reality
PW: I've decided that I'm not going to appoint you as captain.

Do we go ahead with the fake press conference even though everyone knows it's BS? That would be more insulting to VB surely, getting him to recite some token face-saving spin.

It just seems that Walsh is fairly unimpressed with some areas of the club, the captaincy being one. The next two leaders we'd annointed another.

Actually, in most walks of life there's a substantial difference between resignation and dismissal and it has a practical effect.

 

[Southerntakeover]

I think lots of things doesn't mean they are correct.

None of us know how it went down so to suggest it was poorly handled is a guess.

Walsh may have wanted time to see if there was a better choice for Captain than VB before he made the change. Sure when he first met Tex he may have been swayed but seeing as he was new to the club I dare say the board would not have backed him in if he made a quick decision.

Hey, that's cool. I'm not suggesting either of us know better than the other. It was a genuine question.

I guess I'd assumed from your previous question that you felt it was a no brainer and hence could have been made immediately.

 

[pjcrows]

Make no mistake, Walsh is stamping his authority on this side and indicating that there are no "gold tickets", it's not about keeping everyone happy, it's about being the best.

Thank you linesmen, thank you ballboys.

 

[pjcrows]

Reading through this thread, still don't know what the gripe is with how the captaincy thing has been handled.

I guess some are so used to polished scripted rubbish from the old guard that they are confused when they see genuine leadership.

 

[Sanders]

Captain is not a perm job, it's a year to year thing.

Best way to handle it is just to say I've decided on tex. VB is a great leader and an example and he'll continue to be that for himself and the group, but I want to go in a different direction. We have a lot of leaders at this club, but I believe there needs to be a single point of accountability. So I have decided on tex, and I know the entire group will be behind him

This didn't need to take long either.

More or less I think this is what happened. No need for homo-erotic, imagery about Fr type of discussions taking place