Play Nice First transgender player in the AFLW

[Malifice]

So you are saying women are mentally inable to decide what type of relationship they wish to be in, while men are able to do so?
Victims. Arnt we all?

No, Im saying that a patriarchy exists entrenched within society that almost invariably favors men. The glass ceiling and so forth.

I also submit that this patriarchy exists independent on laws that entrench it (actual gender discrimination).

Now you can choose to assert it doesn't exist, but I fundamentally disagree with you on that and you're not going to change my mind. I side with the feminists here (even if most of them s**t me).

 

[ABSOLUTE MADMAN]

No, Im saying that a patriarchy exists entrenched within society that almost invariably favors men. The glass ceiling and so forth.

I also submit that this patriarchy exists independent on laws that entrench it (actual gender discrimination).

Now you can choose to assert it doesn't exist, but I fundamentally disagree with you on that and you're not going to change my mind. I side with the feminists here (even if most of them s**t me).

Do you have a list of these Australian laws?

 

[Malifice]

If nobody in that community(ethnicity) wants to accept me as being a part of that group then all of a sudden I am not the ethnicity I was born as and identify as.

Yes. If Koreans dont accept you as Korean, you're not Korean. You can say you are, but you're alone there. Its a social construct, not a personal belief. As a social construct it requires agreement and acceptance by that group.

For what its worth, this is an actual problem in Korea. After the war there were a ton of 'mixed race' babies (particularly to black US GI's). They are not considered Korean in Korea, by Koreans, despite having a Korean parent.

If they were born here in Australia, they would be both. Korean AND African. (And likely Australian, and likely American).

Lets not argue this here. Have the last word, but if you want to discuss it further, take it to SRP and tag me in.

 

[Malifice]

Do you have a list of these Australian laws?

Read the post. They exist independently of laws. As in they are entrenched social problems.

 

[ABSOLUTE MADMAN]

What you think you wrote.

Read the post. They exist independently of laws. As in they are entrenched social problems.

What you actually wrote.

No, Im saying that a patriarchy exists entrenched within society that almost invariably favors men. The glass ceiling and so forth.

I also submit that this patriarchy exists independent on laws that entrench it (actual gender discrimination).

Now you can choose to assert it doesn't exist, but I fundamentally disagree with you on that and you're not going to change my mind. I side with the feminists here (even if most of them s**t me).

To clarify. Was it a typo?

 

[Malifice]

What you think you wrote.

What you actually wrote.

To clarify. Was it a typo?

I wrote the word 'independently'. Its immediately before the bit you bolded in the passage you quoted.

How are you not seeing that?

 

[Malifice]

No Trump discussions people.

Please. Not here as well.

 

[power09]

The psychological literature disagrees with you.

The biological literature disagrees with you.

The medical profession disagrees with you.

The law disagrees with you.

Why do you think your opinion has more weight than science and the law? I don't think it does and I don't think you could convince any of these institutions it does.

 

[ABSOLUTE MADMAN]

Yes. If Koreans dont accept you as Korean, you're not Korean. You can say you are, but you're alone there. Its a social construct, not a personal belief. As a social construct it requires agreement and acceptance by that group.

For what its worth, this is an actual problem in Korea. After the war there were a ton of 'mixed race' babies (particularly to black US GI's). They are not considered Korean in Korea, by Koreans, despite having a Korean parent.

If they were born here in Australia, they would be both. Korean AND African. (And likely Australian, and likely American).

Lets not argue this here. Have the last word, but if you want to discuss it further, take it to SRP and tag me in.

Feminist literature seems to define gender as a social construct.

Therefore you gender identity does not determine your gender. It requires acceptance of people from that gender group as well...

Which completely goes against the "Your gender identity determines your gender. Period" rhetoric spouted.

It seems you and some others are just having your own definitions to accept one position but deny the other (someones right to racial or ethnic identity of their choosing).

 

[Stevi_Tigers]

correct decison made by the afl i feel bad for her but there is no way looking at her pictures that she should play in this comp

 

[ABSOLUTE MADMAN]

I wrote the word 'independently'. Its immediately before the bit you bolded in the passage you quoted.

How are you not seeing that?

"I also submit that this patriarchy exists independent on laws that entrench it."
So the meaning of your sentence was? (Honestly it is a little butchered)

 

[Timewaster]

There is no 'consensus' that stigma is responsible for the difference in suicide rates between general population (4%) and trans (40%), in fact, I'd be surprised if there existed a single journal article that demonstrated this vast difference is due to only that. The idea that, if affirmed, rates would be similar to the general populace is simply not tested in reality, and should be treated with great caution, if not suspicion.

It smacks of ideology, rather than based on established facts (note I saw your earlier brief critique of postmodernism, so am trying to be fair when I think the gender discussion is dangerously similar thinking, very much along postmodern thought). The wider issue separating gender from biological sex seems to be in this pattern of thinking by deconstructing gender to the point of meaninglessness. Call me odd, but it seems that a well integrated individual is one in which their thoughts are in harmony with biological reality, which is most conducive to flourishing human beings, and I think it is dangerous to rush headlong into entertaining every proposed 'self-conception' of identity, when, from what we observe, it hasn't produced great results.

I'd say that about sums my general position on the topic

What a thoughtful, informed post. Thanks

 

[wing it]

So, I've finally caught up on this story today. I thought it sounded like an intriguing case and wasn't sure which way the AFL would go. But if you've been on hromones and have had the relevant surgery, then there's certainly a case to be made for a transsexual to be playing.

Then I discovered that the individual is pre-op. She still has a wang and people are losing their s**t that she can't play in a women's comp?! GTFO.

 

[Malifice]

"I also submit that this patriarchy exists independent on laws that entrench it."
So the meaning of your sentence was? (Honestly it is a little butchered)

Fair point.

I meant entrenched independently of express laws. My meaning could have been clearer.

 

[Malifice]

So, I've finally caught up on this story today. I thought it sounded like an intriguing case and wasn't sure which way the AFL would go. But if you've been on hromones and have had the relevant surgery, then there's certainly a case to be made for a transsexual to be playing.

Then I discovered that the individual is pre-op. She still has a wang and people are losing their s**t that she can't play in a women's comp?! GTFO.

Odd that 'the wang' is your central issue here.

I dont think the 'wang' gives her a competitive advantage. Testes maybe. Wang, not so much.

I think the hormonal stuff is more important. She only started to physcially transition recently, and has had a pretty decent advantage of being a bloke (testosterone) for a long period of time to build muscle and bone density.

 

[Hawkboy62]

There are arguments both ways. The cynic in me thinks that the AFL making this decision at such a late stage makes it fait accompli for this season, so everyone accepts it and moves on. If there had been an earlier decision there might have an appeal or more media criticism , which the AFL wouldn't like.

 

[wing it]

Odd that 'the wang' is your central issue here.

I dont think the 'wang' gives her a competitive advantage. Testes maybe. Wang, not so much.

I think the hormonal stuff is more important. She only started to physcially transition recently, and has had a pretty decent advantage of being a bloke (testosterone) for a long period of time to build muscle and bone density.

It's odd that someone with a penis is my central issue? When discussing eligibility for a women's comp?

 

[Timewaster]

No Trump discussions people.

Please. Not here as well.

Fair call. Only relevant in the era of post-truth. Saying something doesn't make it so.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Im always wary of a system that favors one gender over another to such a skewed degree.

Speaking of favouring one gender to such a skewed degree, how about letting men compete against women in professional sport? Wary of that one at all?

 

[Walshy1]

Right decision made. For the love of all things good can we keep all this "its a social construct" bull poop off this discussion because its doing my head in. Hannah has a unfair advantage. Next Issue.

 

[Timewaster]

Odd that 'the wang' is your central issue here.

When talking about eligibility for a womens' competition???

I think the absence of wangs would be a fair assumption, and if it wasn't I'd reconsider my daughter's participation in the sport.

 

[Engimal v3]

It's odd that someone with a penis is my central issue? When discussing eligibility for a women's comp?

In terms of something that would give them an advantage, a penis is irrelevant. It may as well be a tumor, or any other growth. Testicles on the other hand do give an advantage. That was his point.

 

[wing it]

In terms of something that would give them an advantage, a penis is irrelevant. It may as well be a tumor, or any other growth. Testicles on the other hand do give an advantage. That was his point.

I understand that.

My point is that even before you look at the unfair advantage argument, you need to look at whether the individual is anatomically one sex or the other. That's our starting point.

 

[ABSOLUTE MADMAN]

Right decision made. For the love of all things good can we keep all this "its a social construct" bull poop off this discussion because its doing my head in. Hannah has a unfair advantage. Next Issue.

Bu.. but lowered testosterone makes it fair. Never mind that growing up as a man allowed this person to reach a height that would put them at the 99.996 percentile of women in Australia (serious https://tall.life/height-percentile-calculator-age-country/) in a game where height is an advantage. Never mind the bone structure around the hips that is more favoured toward locomotion. Never mind all the muscle mass built over the years of their life because lowered testosterone makes it all fair and you are ignorant if you think otherwise.

 

[Percel]

Im going tp get to a few Ainslie games this year, will be interesting to watch.