Fisher and Jacobs

[Bluebear]

My mind turned to these two for different reasons over the weekend as I watched some of our pre-season form from last year.

It occurred to me that in all the off-season discussions about our forward structure Fisher hasn't figured at all.
Now I know this is for a good reason, he had a poor year, is injury prone, and may well have been lucky to survive the off-season cull due to having a contract.
I just wondered if there was even a glimmer of hope that Fisher might just step up and start in the goal square or FP next to Henderson. Starting deep would help cover a couple of Fishers flaws.......inability to kick long and (to a lesser extent covers) inability to chase his opponent.

Could he recover and provide a forward option?

The other interesting one for me is Big Sauce. This time last year he had taken the number 1 ruck mantle. Now granted, Warnock was injured, but he was preferred over Hampson, and to some extent Kreuzer in the first ruck and performed well. In fact up until he injured his foot I would have thought it would be hard for Warnock, even if fit to dislodge him.

Not sure how either of these guys or their competitors for spots (i.e. Warnock) are training but just thought I'd bring them into the discussion as they seem to be overlooked this summer.


Any thoughts on Fisher or Jacobs?

 

[blues4flag]

Up against it. Fisher mightn't have survived the year if he'd been out of contract. While he's a very good mark (though even that part of his game has dropped away over the past couple seasons) his lack of mobility and defensive pressure makes him a liability in the modern game.

Jacobs has slightly better chances as I'm not sold on Warnock. Hasn't played a game in well over a year and seems to be perennially injured. If the club sees Kreuzer or Hampson as a forward option, Jacobs might get a run in the ruck, though I'd have him last in line behind the other three.

 

[zeeCFC]

If Fish adds a Defensive side to his game then I am happy to have him closer to goal, otherwise his flaws heavily outweigh the opportunities.

I like Sauce, think he is a much better ruck than Hammer but needs some real good form to get in the 22. There is also the fact that Hampson gets better every game he plays.

Hopefully we are in the NAB cup long enough to trial a few different set ups

 

[blues4flag]

I see Hammer as a much better option than Sauce myself. While he's not as good a footballer just yet, he's significantly more athletic and could make a dangerous forward option if he gets his hands right.

 

[BlueTongue]

Up against it. Fisher mightn't have survived the year if he'd been out of contract. While he's a very good mark (though even that part of his game has dropped away over the past couple seasons) his lack of mobility and defensive pressure makes him a liability in the modern game...

WTF Mobility is one of his better attributes! His speed off the mark and his work up the ground are one of his saving graces. I've long thought he'd be better off playing on the wing. His kicking is his main flaw. That and the fact that his hunger for the game must surely be waning now it's clear he's never going to be a permanent forward option.

Jacobs has slightly better chances as I'm not sold on Warnock. Hasn't played a game in well over a year and seems to be perennially injured. If the club sees Kreuzer or Hampson as a forward option, Jacobs might get a run in the ruck, though I'd have him last in line behind the other three.

I agree with you there. I must admit I never saw any of his Freo games, or anything other than training photos on this forum but he doesn't exactly strike me as someone who must be in the side at all costs. I actually like sauce as a pure tap ruckman and for is body strength. I'm hoping he can add another dimension to his game play some games for us this year.

 

[HARKER]

I can't see us using Fisher much at all this year.
There will although be some games where he may be brought in to throw opposition off our game, but I doubt that will be the road we want to travel.

The focus will be to develop Henderson and orientate Waite within our forward structure and also use Kreuzer and Hampson up forward where as needed.
With the smalls in Betts, Yarran, Lucas and Walker being used, there will unlikely be any room for Fisher within our forward structure and by default our side.

Jacobs: Not doing anything wrong right now but just a matter of where and how would we use all four talls? I can't see that happening.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Fisher's is a case that might allow him to prosper but for some reason judging by his VFL performances I saw in the finals he doesn't seem to want it enough for my liking. He snagged a casual 4 in a Semi-Final but did next to nothing in the Grand and looked apathetic to be out there playing for the 2's regardless of his teammates in the Ants. Not a good mentality and along with his poor form and shortcomings as a player (not enough speed, no defensive play, can't kick over distance) rules him out for me

 

[The Toad]

I think they are both in serious trouble at the club.

Fisher is pretty much gorne. With likes of Yarran, Garlett, lucas and co I dont think there is a position for him in our team.

Jacobs will only be used if one of the other talls gets injured. IMO it is between him and Hammer and I think Hammer is ahead due to his superior athleticism and potential for major improvment.

 

[mickelboy182]

WTF Mobility is one of his better attributes! His speed off the mark and his work up the ground are one of his saving graces.

Yeah, no.
Way too slow for todays game.
As a side, he was awarded with a free kick in the VFL GF and then COMPLETELY MISSED THE BALL when he went to kick it. I couldn't believe it!

 

[BlueTongue]

Yeah, no.
Way too slow for todays game.

OK I'll fast forward back from 2007 to 2010.

As a side, he was awarded with a free kick in the VFL GF and then COMPLETELY MISSED THE BALL when he went to kick it. I couldn't believe it!

...Oh dear

 

[BlueTongue]

On a side note, what do people think Hadley's chances/role will be in 2010?

 

[HARKER]

On a side note, what do people think Hadley's chances/role will be in 2010?

Great question BT.

I didn't want to put this forward through training reports but in one word he looks: Defeated.

He is doing nothing wrong but McLean has jumped him already.
I set out to spot Hadley as he walked past the ruck drills involving our talls and one centreman: McLean.
His look gave me the impression of a song we all know: "What about me?"

Not suggesting his is broken but he knows he has a lot to do to work this spot over Brock. That was clear.

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

WTF Mobility is one of his better attributes! His speed off the mark and his work up the ground are one of his saving graces. I've long thought he'd be better off playing on the wing. His kicking is his main flaw. That and the fact that his hunger for the game must surely be waning now it's clear he's never going to be a permanent forward option.

His marking overhead is great.
Mobility, especially beneath his knees is IMO, awful. If the ball goes to ground, you can rule Fisher out, unfortunately.

 

[BlueTongue]

Great question BT.

I didn't want to put this forward through training reports but in one word he looks: Defeated.

He is doing nothing wrong but McLean has jumped him already.
I set out to spot Hadley as he walked past the ruck drills involving our talls and one centreman: McLean.
His look gave me the impression of a song we all know: "What about me?"

Not suggesting his is broken but he knows he has a lot to do to work this spot over Brock. That was clear.

Thanks for the feedback Harks.

That's disappointing. I've always thought at 190cm he is too big for an in and under type player, but I was hoping he may get some kind of midfield role.

Do you think he could cut it as a HB sweeper/Hodge type role?

 

[Sin City]

I just wondered if there was even a glimmer of hope that Fisher might just step up and start in the goal square or FP next to Henderson. Starting deep would help cover a couple of Fishers flaws.......inability to kick long and (to a lesser extent covers) inability to chase his opponent.

Good thread Bluebear.

From all reports that FP/goal square spot will be taken by one of the ruckmen, with FF taken by Henderson and CHF by Waite. For depth I would think O'hAilpin and Wiggins would be in front of Fisher based on last years form as well.

Fisher is a hard worker and was one of our best players not so long ago (2007) but with the focus now so much on defensive pressure, his poor kicking and inability to keep his feet he will probably struggle to hold a regular spot.

 

[Kramer1]

There is a bit to like about Fisher. Played deep he offers a great marking option, and will command a reasonable spoiling defender. At 25 and with 100 odd games under his belt he offers a mature body and experience to a very inexperienced forward line. Also his ability to kick consistent goals is proven, unlike a lot of the potential that we are hoping will materialise over the coming season.

His confidence looked shot to pieces last year, and it has probably been that way since he broke his thumb in early 08. Everything seemed to go down hill...mobility, speed, kicking, ability to keep his feet. If he can start with a clean slate this year, and overcome whatever mental hurdles have been in his way I think he can play more often than not in 2010. How's he looked at training??? from the couple of pics I have seen he seems to have bulked up a little (but don't they all) and maybe that's an indication of a new improved approach...maybe.

Sauce...I dunno. Looked good early on last year, but I think I would have looked good in the Richmond game. He seems to lack the mobility of the other three...whether that's because he is relatively immobile or the other three are just freaks I don't know. Will need to add another string to his bow be it improved mobility, marking or maybe follow up work at ruck contests Mumford style. Deft hands alone should not be enough to hold a ruck spot in our team this year.

Hadley...depends which week you ask the question. His best is probably good enough for any midfield rotation in the comp, his worst looks ordinary at Bullant level. I don't know if its an injury management thing but consistency is the key, and I am not convinced that he will find it.

 

[jj1978]

Now it is threads like this that should clearly point out how potentially awesome our team might become. We have DEPTH!!! If the players like Hadley/Fisher/Jacobs get hungry enough and can taste/smell what we are cooking they'll challenge for a spot in the 22.

Really when we have players like Hadley/Fisher/Jacobs/Browne/Austin/Armfield/Yarran/Gartlett/Houlihan/Hampson/Warnock all needing to bust a gut to either guarantee or retain a spot in the 22 you know we're on a pretty good wicket.

I hope our coaching staff are making all the players hungry... in fact even players like Gibbs, Murphy, kreuzer, Carazzo, Simpson, Henderson etc etc should not be made to feel that they are even a walk up start.... so far it appears to me that Judd and McClean who are most likely a couple of our only guaranteed top 22, don't seem to be resting on their laurels and are training as though they are fighting for a top 22 spot... this I hope is filtering down to the other mob!

 

[HBF]

Clubs will figure out Fisher if he basically sits in the FP and does't really lead. Given his lack of pace, the opposition will just put a taller player on him, and therefore take away most of his strength, which is his marking. Even when he has shots on goal from close range, he isn't that reliable as his kicking technique is flawed.

Jacobs on the other hand has been left out as having 4 ruckmen in the 22 is 1 too many. Came along in leaps and bounds last year, and is more than capable of stepping into the Carlton side should we get an injury to one of our big men.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

Jacobs... Came along in leaps and bounds last year, and is more than capable of stepping into the Carlton side.

And the best thing about him, he (was) a rookie. Which bodes well in that there is little expectation on his performances, and also means he's probably happy to have been upgraded to the main list this year, and will take what comes at him - no discord between him and the playing group for not getting picked week-to-week, and we can keep him waiting in the wings for the length of his contract.

As opposed to someone like Hadley, who we shipped in from Brisbane, but who we have recently shipped in replacements for, and also recruited replacements for his position through both the rookie draft and the national draft. He may be feeling like his time here is up and may really want to move on to generate better opportunities for himself. For what it's worth, I hope he stays, we need him as backup, and in the final last year he really could've made a difference with the added grunt work in the middle.

 

[inyourcool]

Fisher has one more year as a Carlton listed Bullants player and then see-ya later!

Jacobs promises heaps IMO and could see some game time for the Blues in 2010

 

[Stig O'Hara]

There is a bit to like about Fisher. Played deep he offers a great marking option, and will command a reasonable spoiling defender. At 25 and with 100 odd games under his belt he offers a mature body and experience to a very inexperienced forward line.

Yep, agree,

Haven't totally written him off and would expect him to play seniors early this year during the reshuffle.

One of the few that can kick 3 in 3 minutes, and a terrific contested mark when on-song.

 

[Blue since 72]

Fisher: Can't see him getting too much/if any senior game time during the season proper; Too many other better options for the forward line IMO.
For a mature player he's too light in the body for his height so while he has a great pair of hands he gets knocked off the footy/goes to ground too easily, defensive pressure hasn't been upto whats expected although I wouldn't accuse him of not trying and kicking at goal too inconsistent.(All stuff we know).

Sauce: Really liked his ruck work in the early games last year, reckon this guy is already a very good tap ruckman. Obviously large down side is lack of mobility campared with the other three. Can postion well for handball receives/give offs but no great pace or agility could unfortunately see him struggle to get into the seniors. However, have been wondering whether we can handle one of our rucks not being a Dean Cox type if he is continually tapping to advantage and our fast emerging midfield is dominating?

Hadley: Really liked seeing this guy do the grunt work and allowing Judd to be released, when he was playing that is. Just don't know where he will play if Mclean stays fit.

 

[blues4flag]

WTF Mobility is one of his better attributes! His speed off the mark and his work up the ground are one of his saving graces. I've long thought he'd be better off playing on the wing. His kicking is his main flaw. That and the fact that his hunger for the game must surely be waning now it's clear he's never going to be a permanent forward option.

Can't agree. He falls over too often and once the ball hits the ground he's basically out of the contest. As others have said, with forward line pressure becoming a huge focus, Fisher's really been found out in that area over the past couple of years.

 

[OldBlueFan]

I seem to agree with most people here.

Fisher has had his day I reckon. I've never seen anyone look as disinterested as he did in the Ant's GF team last year. He had to know he's approaching the last few opportunities to break into the seniors, so not turning up to play in his last game of the year ... well ...

Jacobs definitely started the year ahead of Hampson, but Hampson took his chance and ran with it. That in itself is an attribute you want to see more of in a club. Nothing wrong with Jacobs as far as I can tell, but the others have more positives at this stage. Of course, there's no proof that Warnock can stay on the park, or once there, can deliver, so Jacobs is still a chance to pull himself into the team.

I would have thought we can play both Hadley and McLean in the same team, rotating as the inside mids. This would allow Judd to play exclusively outside unless both the other guys were getting carved up. I thought Hadley proved himself to be very valuable to the team in the last few games before he broke his arm and we missed him when he wasn't there. Another one for whom ability to stay on the park is vital.

Just on the training anecdote, isn't it possible that the coaches think Hadley has had 12 months to get used to the rucks, but McLean having just arrived, will need more time with them? Ruck to smalls understanding is a fairly important part of our game.

 

[HARKER]

Just on the training anecdote, isn't it possible that the coaches think Hadley has had 12 months to get used to the rucks, but McLean having just arrived, will need more time with them? Ruck to smalls understanding is a fairly important part of our game.

Fair question OBF, but in one simple answer: NO
It would be a great decoy if they haven't the plans for McLean that are evident through training.

We know that history shows good trainers and poor performers, but with a confident viewpoint here, that won't be the case for McLean.
He's been given the dream job and he has no intentions of pi..ing it up against the wall. (No pun intended)