Prediction Fixing our forward line

[Smegger]

I was there last year against Collingwood when he kicked 4 and took 10 contested marks. Was outstanding that day. Thought it might be his breakout game. The next week against Port he took a big mark in the opening minutes, landed awkwardly and hurt his knee and has never recaptured that form.

Also remember many of us at the time hoping for a quick recovery. Alas...a miracle!

 

[Soapy V]

Hear what you're saying Soapy. I can't argue with the facts to date.

The issue is it will take the biggest turnaround in AFL history to go from a player who at 27 averages less than a goal a game, 6 kicks and 5 marks (and that's apparently his strength) to all of a sudden becoming a consistent and influential AFL forward. Even a solid improvement doesn't see him become good enough.

 

[Jabba73]

And I'll be climbing Mount Everist unassisted all the way to the summit...

Photos or GTFO

 

[OldCarltonKnows]

Photos or GTFO

I'll produce em the same day Levi kicks 6! : )

 

[Jabba73]

I'll produce em the same day Levi kicks 6! : )

Touché

 

[Soapy V]

Oh wait, teams pick a best of bunch of defenders who all play roles. Like one to take on the guerillas, smalls to lock down on the rioli, betts, wingard types... Am I getting too complicated?

Have to agree with The Smoking Gun. Sides don't structure like that anymore and haven't for a while. The good sides have a settled defence that have the players flexible to match up on talls and smalls. I think we will have that with Plowman Marchbank Weitering & Williamson. Look at the Hawks & Cats from the 2 last great eras. Team defence and structure is vital and then the ability to create attack from defence. Not only that most sides tend to have 1 or 2 extra dropping back filling the holes and with zones now not many players play on just one player for a whole quarter let alone a whole game.

 

[Smegger]

The issue is it will take the biggest turnaround in AFL history to go from a player who at 27 averages less than a goal a game, 6 kicks and 5 marks (and that's apparently his strength) to all of a sudden becoming a consistent and influential AFL forward. Even a solid improvement doesn't see him become good enough.

Exactly. In Levi's case the horse has seemingly bolted due to lack of junior development. Things are what they are and the focus is rightly on the future instead of the now.

 

[TooBlue14]

I think we need to cut Levi some slack as its only pre-season. His first 8 games last year were very good and if he can do that again (I suspect he can) he should get another 1 year contract or more. Before the knee problem (miraculous injury return) he straightened us up and was a key cog in our positive start to 2016. If we can give Murphy, Gibbs, Kruezer, and co. an excuse for not being absolutely amazing in the pre-season training matches then I'm happy to give one to levi too. 6 marks and 2.2 (13 disposals plus part time rucking) in the game v melbourne with limited forward opportunities, rested v saints then 0.1 v fremantle with 8 touches and 9 hitouts. He played 83% game time also which is saying that they are trying to leave him out there to ENDURE. I can see Sumner and Pickett really appreciating balls being kicked on Levi's head around 50 in 2017 as they will get some action from the rebound every time if he doesn't mark it.

 

[Soapy V]

I think we need to cut Levi some slack as its only pre-season. His first 8 games last year were very good and if he can do that again (I suspect he can) he should get another 1 year contract or more. Before the knee problem (miraculous injury return) he straightened us up and was a key cog in our positive start to 2016. If we can give Murphy, Gibbs, Kruezer, and co. an excuse for not being absolutely amazing in the pre-season training matches then I'm happy to give one to levi too. 6 marks and 2.2 (13 disposals plus part time rucking) in the game v melbourne with limited forward opportunities, rested v saints then 0.1 v fremantle with 8 touches and 9 hitouts. He played 83% game time also which is saying that they are trying to leave him out there to ENDURE. I can see Sumner and Pickett really appreciating balls being kicked on Levi's head around 50 in 2017 as they will get some action from the rebound every time if he doesn't mark it.

Before he did his knee last year (for which he missed one game) Casboult played the first 8 games for 6 goals and in 5 games he was kept goalless. If that's when he is "very good" why are we even discussing him as an option?

We are aren't even discussing his lack of defensive pressure, the consistent mistakes and turnovers he makes and his general lack of football awareness.

 

[TooBlue14]

Before he did his knee last year (for which he missed one game) Casboult played the first 8 games for 6 goals and in 5 games he was kept goalless. If that's when he is "very good" why are we even discussing him as an option?

We are aren't even discussing his lack of defensive pressure, the consistent mistakes and turnovers he makes and his general lack of football awareness.

Well then his 2017 preseason stats of 2.3 in two games is a marketable improvement

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I had hoped Harry would be the answer, but its fairly obvious that he is still a long way off and should not be burdened with the responsibility before he is ready..

We are going to have to suck up another year with Levi leading the fwd line, but i think we should go hard at an uncontracted player from a rival.. Someone like Jack Redpath who shouldnt cost a fortune but would allow us to delist Levi and then have Harry develop in his own time.

 

[Soapy V]

Well then his 2017 preseason stats of 2.3 in two games is a marketable improvement

Pre season means absolutely nothing but if you want suggest that 2 goals in 2 pre season games is an improvement go for it.

That's not even including the turnovers etc

 

[Soapy V]

We are going to have to suck up another year with Levi leading the fwd line,

Not having a go at you ItsAllAboutMe but why? He's 27 and been given every opportunity. We are rebuilding and have options.

I expect McKay to come in by mid year if not earlier. He will be a star. We also have Jaksch who is 22, Weitering (19) is being discussed by many as a forward and is a star at either end, SOS said at the draft Macreadie (19) is a key forward. Charlie & Silvagni are mobile tall forwards and young. Kerr is probably a year away. I have no doubt that when Phillips returns he and Kruezer will play through the square. Rowe is a back up because he can ruck and go back. We have some really exciting smaller forwards and a group of mids that are capable of kicking goals.

We are rebuilding and it's time to play the kids. Most are ready to play. Having Casboult in the side doesn't help us going forward at all.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Not having a go at you ItsAllAboutMe but why? He's 27 and been given every opportunity. We are rebuilding and have options.

I expect McKay to come in by mid year if not earlier. He will be a star. We also have Jaksch who is 22, Weitering (19) is being discussed by many as a forward and is a star at either end, SOS said at the draft Macreadie (19) is a key forward. Charlie & Silvagni are mobile tall forwards and young. Kerr is probably a year away. I have no doubt that when Phillips returns he and Kruezer will play through the square. Rowe is a back up because he can ruck and go back. We have some really exciting smaller forwards and a group of mids that are capable of kicking goals.

We are rebuilding and it's time to play the kids. Most are ready to play. Having Casboult in the side doesn't help us going forward at all.

I tend to agree that it adds nothing to us having Levi in the side.. but for me its about making sure we develop Harry properly and give him the best opportunity to become a star.. I fear if we rush him and burden him with too much responsibility before he is ready we could damage him. I would like to see him monster a few games in the VFL first..

Personally i would like to see Gibbs spend some time at full forward. He marks well, is super smart and has a good set shot for goal. I think he would be a hard match up for any team and better than playing Levi.

Pickett, Weiters, Palmer
Charlie, Gibbs, Jack

A dynamic forward line like this with Kruezar resting forward could cause opposition teams some real trouble.

 

[Soapy V]

Personally i would like to see Gibbs spend some time at full forward. He marks well, is super smart and has a good set shot for goal. I think he would be a hard match up for any team and better than playing Levi.

Pickett, Weiters, Palmer
Charlie, Gibbs, Jack

A dynamic forward line like this with Kruezar resting forward could cause opposition teams some real trouble.

Perfect and I reckon that's the type of thinking we need. I have been hoping that the "secret" training sessions have been Bolton setting up a new different forward line ala Bulldogs in finals last year. Tory Dickson & Liam Picken were their most dangerous forwards supported by a string midfield.

Silvagni & Charlie (maybe Macreadie) are genuine mobile options. Weitering as well. Gibbs Cripps Murphy Pickett SPS Palmer Wright Sumner Gallucci (soon Polson LeBois & Fisher) inside 50 or one out would be extremly dangerous. Bolton & SOS both spoke about adding more run and better ball use this year. I hope they start picking the side that supports that as I see it as our strength as we are building.

 

[Jabba73]

Been suggesting Gibbs to CHF for a few years now, not sure we have the midfield options to make it happen unless SPS, Fisher, Cuningham and at least one other come on in leaps and bounds.

A mobile type like Gibbs needs quality delivery and our recent midfield options were not up to the task. Maybe Smedts and Palmer may be able to help turn the tide towards lowering your eyes and picking out leading targets because it has been drilled into them.

Will make our forwards much more dangerous.

 

[bmaurizio]

I tend to agree that it adds nothing to us having Levi in the side.. but for me its about making sure we develop Harry properly and give him the best opportunity to become a star.. I fear if we rush him and burden him with too much responsibility before he is ready we could damage him. I would like to see him monster a few games in the VFL first..

Personally i would like to see Gibbs spend some time at full forward. He marks well, is super smart and has a good set shot for goal. I think he would be a hard match up for any team and better than playing Levi.

Pickett, Weiters, Palmer
Charlie, Gibbs, Jack

A dynamic forward line like this with Kruezar resting forward could cause opposition teams some real trouble.

I like the idea of Gibbs in the forward line creative and intelligent player.
But then some critics say he choose when to go, same as for Jaksch.
Bolton has to trigger some change it’s been too stagnate, put Gibbs forward some genuine football nous, skilled and throw in Jaksch mobile tall.
Our forward line is deprived of talent, let’s try something different.
We just may produce some potency.

 

[My name geoff]

I think Casboult will benefit from having at least one competent forward playing next to him this year. I'm sure Casboult averaged far better games when spud jones was playing also if I'm not mistaken..

In the Sydney game last year at the SCG I remember thinking our forward line looked dangerous with Curnow and Casboult looking menacing in the air and Sumner and Silvagni also playing well.

Until Casboult busted Charlie's knee of course lol

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Perfect and I reckon that's the type of thinking we need. I have been hoping that the "secret" training sessions have been Bolton setting up a new different forward line ala Bulldogs in finals last year. Tory Dickson & Liam Picken were their most dangerous forwards supported by a string midfield.

Silvagni & Charlie (maybe Macreadie) are genuine mobile options. Weitering as well. Gibbs Cripps Murphy Pickett SPS Palmer Wright Sumner Gallucci (soon Polson LeBois & Fisher) inside 50 or one out would be extremly dangerous. Bolton & SOS both spoke about adding more run and better ball use this year. I hope they start picking the side that supports that as I see it as our strength as we are building.

Exactly, if we take round 1 for instance who does Richmond match up on.. Rance would go to Weitering, but Richmond would also prefer he plays deeper and controls the rebound from the last line.

 

[BlueRenaissance]

A lot of talk about Casboult.

Here is my view.

• An indictment on us that he is getting a game...
  
• His weaknesses: slow, poor decision making, very very poor kick on goal, not enough involvement in game
  
• His strengths: marking and aggression inside 50, ensures opposition players think twice before ragdolling our 1st/2nd year players
  
• Regardless of strengths and weaknesses still our best option as our focal key forward. Mckay not ready, KJ not in the MC plans based on internal information
  
• Honestly, we just have to put up with him in the short term as our best option...yes embarrassing!!
• Supporters calling for him to be dropped are simply short sighted..because we performed badly, we are calling for him to be dropped for KJ. Desperate call, and only results in calling for KJs dismissal the following week as he fails too. Reactionary and predictable fan behaviour after poor form exposed.

Inside 50s and young fwds...
Our forwards and inside 50s are in a poor state in terms of now (2017 competitiveness). Our young forwards need development time due to age; our inside 50s are deplorable. The key offenders are Murphy, Armfield, Kerridge, Curnow, Buckley, Blaine B, and Graham. The latter 3 are on the outer thank god. The first lot we also need to put up with in the short term. Part of the reason why Pickett gave us so much hope wasn't just about the goals....it was about how he kicked and his decision making. He had time, he had smarts...he put some of his senior players to shame.

The future looks bright but we have 10 more players to replace (5 on field)...players who have bad decision making, and bad disposal.

We are on the right track. Everything is proceeding quite well. We just have to suck it up that we lack class going inside 50 and we lack a good key fwd.

2018 should see Mckay evolve into an onground influence. Should see the rise of SPS, Cuningham and Fisher provide better impact going inside 50.

Still lots to look fwd too..just long term.

Go Blues.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Not having a go at you ItsAllAboutMe but why? He's 27 and been given every opportunity. We are rebuilding and have options.

I expect McKay to come in by mid year if not earlier. He will be a star. We also have Jaksch who is 22, Weitering (19) is being discussed by many as a forward and is a star at either end, SOS said at the draft Macreadie (19) is a key forward. Charlie & Silvagni are mobile tall forwards and young. Kerr is probably a year away. I have no doubt that when Phillips returns he and Kruezer will play through the square. Rowe is a back up because he can ruck and go back. We have some really exciting smaller forwards and a group of mids that are capable of kicking goals.

We are rebuilding and it's time to play the kids. Most are ready to play. Having Casboult in the side doesn't help us going forward at all.

Get what your saying but why kruezer and phillips out of a square defeats the purpose of you getting rid of casboult no point ?
On one hand in another post your saying lets play a bulldogs style fwd line with the smalls then saying kruezer and phillips out of the square . Im confused ????

 

[Soapy V]

A lot of talk about Casboult.

Here is my view.

• An indictment on us that he is getting a game...
  
• His weaknesses: slow, poor decision making, very very poor kick on goal, not enough involvement in game
  
• His strengths: marking and aggression inside 50, ensures opposition players think twice before ragdolling our 1st/2nd year players
  
• Regardless of strengths and weaknesses still our best option as our focal key forward. Mckay not ready, KJ not in the MC plans based on internal information
  
• Honestly, we just have to put up with him in the short term as our best option...yes embarrassing!!
• Supporters calling for him to be dropped are simply short sighted..because we performed badly, we are calling for him to be dropped for KJ. Desperate call, and only results in calling for KJs dismissal the following week as he fails too. Reactionary and predictable fan behaviour after poor form exposed.

Inside 50s and young fwds...
Our forwards and inside 50s are in a poor state in terms of now (2017 competitiveness). Our young forwards need development time due to age; our inside 50s are deplorable. The key offenders are Murphy, Armfield, Kerridge, Curnow, Buckley, Blaine B, and Graham. The latter 3 are on the outer thank god. The first lot we also need to put up with in the short term. Part of the reason why Pickett gave us so much hope wasn't just about the goals....it was about how he kicked and his decision making. He had time, he had smarts...he put some of his senior players to shame.

The future looks bright but we have 10 more players to replace (5 on field)...players who have bad decision making, and bad disposal.

We are on the right track. Everything is proceeding quite well. We just have to suck it up that we lack class going inside 50 and we lack a good key fwd.

2018 should see Mckay evolve into an onground influence. Should see the rise of SPS, Cuningham and Fisher provide better impact going inside 50.

Still lots to look fwd too..just long term.

Go Blues.

Well written BR and very good points. The question for me still comes down to this point

"Regardless of strengths and weaknesses still our best option as our focal key forward. McKay not ready, KJ not in the MC plans based on internal information"

People keep saying this but are we playing for NOW or the future? We are rebuilding. Unless the MC truly believe he is a realistic option for the next 3-5 years he shouldn't be playing.

Wins at the moment are largely irrelevant. It's important to get games into the younger players and now. Next year we will bring in another 8-10 kids. It's vital that the current crop get 10-20 games under them now as next year we will have another group of debutants to bring through.

PS I don't think he is our best option

 

[Soapy V]

Get what your saying but why kruezer and phillips out of a square defeats the purpose of you getting rid of casboult no point ?
On one hand in another post your saying lets play a bulldogs style fwd line with the smalls then saying kruezer and phillips out of the square . Im confused ????

I don't want it but I think it will happen. Personally, I want NO Casboult and ONE Ruck.

 

[BlueRenaissance]

PS I don't think he is our best option

Who is our best KPF option. Weitering, Marchbank, Rowe, KJ, Kreuze?

I would understand a vote for Weitering but what sort of defence do Freo actually have? Lets not overrate Weiters fwd before we stack up proper evidence. Freo prolly have the worst defenders in the league aside from Brissy.

And yes, he did do better than Cas. But we need two talls down fwd. And Weitering robs our defence as someone like Mcarthy scores 5 goals.

 

[Iamcarlton]

I don't want it but I think it will happen. Presonally, I want NO Casboult and ONE Ruck.

Im happy for casboult to stay for now and same as you DO NOT WANT 2 RUCKS!!
Kruezer looks and plays better when solo .