Prediction Fixing our forward line

[Soapy V]

And yes, he did do better than Cas. But we need two talls down fwd.

Why?

 

[BlueRenaissance]

Why?

Because one key fwd (Caz or Weiters) will be double-teamed.

Maybe they let Cas take the mark lol....

 

[Soapy V]

Because one key fwd (Caz or Weiters) will be double-teamed.

Don't agree. Seemed to work for the Bulldogs last year

 

[BlueRenaissance]

Don't agree. Seemed to work for the Bulldogs last year

There is a massive difference between the quality of inside 50s though

We have very few inside 50s that are anywhere near the quality of the doggies; so double-teaming will occur.

 

[cripppa9]

I think keeping Weitering back is best. Keep guys like Caz, Mckay and Curnow down there and have pickett, SPS (when ready), Lamb and Palmer we should go alright.

 

[Soapy V]

There is a massive difference between the quality of inside 50s though

We have very few inside 50s that are anywhere near the quality of the doggies; so double-teaming will occur.

I'd back a forward line with the options of Gibbs Charlie Silvagni Weitering Wright Murphy Pickett McKay Cripps SPS Macreadie Polson Sumner etc any day over what we have been doing previously. No where as predictable, more mobile, better defensively and better conversion. That is our future and will ony get better and better. Just need to start it now

 

[BlueRenaissance]

I'd back a forward line with the options of Gibbs Charlie Silvagni Weitering Wright Murphy Pickett McKay Cripps SPS etc any day over what we have been doing previously. No where as predictable, more mobile, better defensively and better conversion. That is our future and will ony get better and better. Just need to start it now

I really like the sound of that too Soapy. I just think that is 2018 and not 2017.

Overall you have it right...the future is in our new draft picks. The mature players just don't have the disposal skills.

 

[Soapy V]

I really like the sound of that too Soapy. I just think that is 2018 and not 2017.

I go back to my original comment. Why do we need to wait for 2018? Are we playing for NOW or the future?

I believe we are building our next great side which will take 4-5 years minimum. Like Bulldogs, Saints, GWS & Demons have done you need to play the kids asap and get past the average players that won't take you anywhere.

 

[BlueRenaissance]

I go back to my original comment. Why do we need to wait for 2018? Are we playing for NOW or the future?

I believe we are building our next great side which will take 4-5 years minimum. Like Bulldogs, Saints, GWS & Demons have done you need to play the kids asap and get past the average players that won't take you anywhere.

I personally don't think the answer is black or white. It is something in between as we are talking about development here and players confidence. Does getting smashed with no protection help develop our young players..I dont think so. Does more thrashings help our young players, I don't think so. So, ultimately, I see benefit of Casboult being out there for the benefit of the young players.

Betts did well with Fev protecting him...Betts does even better with three big talls protecting him. I feel Pickett, Silver, Lamb, Sumner, Lebois etc... all will do better with Casboult in the side. His crashing and bashing gives them more opportunity. That more opportunity is development and confidence.

Yes, Casboult hmiself is rather average, if not poor.

 

[Soapy V]

I personally don't think the answer is black or white. It is something in between as we are talking about development here and players confidence. Does getting smashed with no protection help develop our young players..I dont think so. Does more thrashings help our young players, I don't think so. So, ultimately, I see benefit of Casboult being out there for the benefit of the young players.

Betts did well with Fev protecting him...Betts does even better with three big talls protecting him. I feel Pickett, Silver, Lamb, Sumner, Lebois etc... all will do better with Casboult in the side. His crashing and bashing gives them more opportunity. That more opportunity is development and confidence.

Sorry but I totally disagree. To say Casboult helps with confidence and development is just wrong. Players don't get smashed and Casboult doesn't crash packs consistently. That's just another falsehood. If anything he drains the confidence of the side with his constant misses and mistakes.

Bottom line for me he is no good, not the future (he's not the only one) and we have heaps of other better options

 

[BlueRenaissance]

Sorry but I totally disagree. To say Casboult helps with confidence and development is just wrong. Players don't get smashed and Casboult doesn't crash packs consistently. That's just another falsehood. If anything he drains the confidence of the side with his constant misses and mistakes.

Bottom line for me he is no good, not the future (he's not the only one) and we have heaps of other better options

That's fine to disagree.

I agree with your push for youth as it is the right way forward. And though I prefer Cas in the side this year, i'd be ok if Mckay/KJ were trialled at some point as it really is close to 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

The Blues future is 2020+

 

[Love the Drake]

Are you suggesting we "fix the forwardline" just for the upcoming season or are you looking at the long-term instead ??

Both.

 

[djw1952]

A lot of what you said makes sense. Problem is we need Casboult to play the second ruck role. Rowe cant do it. Jaksch is behind Cas, Mackay, Jones and Charlie. Kicking 3 or 4 goals in a Northern Blues practice match wont change that.

As for our forwardline as a whole, delivery has been atrocious, and opportunities few and far between. In order to kick a winning score we need to give our forwards more legitimate opportunities.

Jaksch has to be given more game time in the seniors so that he gets some confidence, otherwise he will just lose interest playing in the seconds all the time. I cannot imagine any player having less intensity than Jones, who has the build for a kpp but just goes missing all the time. It is time for Jaksch to be played or got rid of, like Jones will be at the end of this season.

 

[djw1952]

I'm not sold on silvagni at this stage. Hasn't been amazing in the preseason and I don't want another Waite who feels immediately entitled to a game due to their bloodlines.

Gee the kid has only played a hand full of games and you are into him already. Let`s judge him by his efforts after he has played a few seasons at least !!!

 

[Blue Reaper]

At best, I think we'll see only marginal improvements from Casboult. Hope I'm wrong. However, we did look better as a team last year with him in. Certainly a pickle.

I'd like to see Casboult and Jaksch given a consistent run together. The club can then make an informed and definitive call at season's end.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Fixing our forward line isn't this what we started at the 2016 draft?

McKay pick 10 key position forward
Curnow pick 13 key position forward or floating forward
Silvagni father son pick 3rd tall forward
Pickett traded last draft small forward

Unfortunately the big guys take time Hawkins, Josh Kennedy, Taylor Walker all struggled in first couple of season then went bang.

Casboult, Jones & Jaksch won't be part of our next finals assault no matter how much people want them to be they just aren't good enough.

 

[Soapy V]

Casboult, Jones & Jaksch won't be part of our next finals assault no matter how much people want them to be they just aren't good enough.

Agree so why do people want to play them now? (Although I'm still keen to give Jaksch a go in 2017 as he is young and talented) Makes absolutely no sense to me. It's just a waste of time and we have heaps of other options and kids that need the experience

 

[JustaBattler]

One bloke isn't going to 'fix the forward lines.

 

[Govinda blueboy]

I personally don't think the answer is black or white. It is something in between as we are talking about development here and players confidence. Does getting smashed with no protection help develop our young players..I dont think so. Does more thrashings help our young players, I don't think so. So, ultimately, I see benefit of Casboult being out there for the benefit of the young players.

Betts did well with Fev protecting him...Betts does even better with three big talls protecting him. I feel Pickett, Silver, Lamb, Sumner, Lebois etc... all will do better with Casboult in the side. His crashing and bashing gives them more opportunity. That more opportunity is development and confidence.

Yes, Casboult hmiself is rather average, if not poor.

I remember Casboult smashing plenty of our players too lol. Wasn't Walker and Charlie injured directly as a result of Casboult?? Seriously though as many have said he's not a smart player, if you want a big body I think Rowe is a better candidate. Can crash and bash, is more intelligent, can kick straight, has been in the leadership group, can also contest in the ruck to give Kruezer a break. The young players will get more protection and development from Rowe than Casboult, as he won't be sucking the confidence out of players by kicking the ball oob and points which kills momentum as well.

 

[Govinda blueboy]

For what it's worth here's my take on the forward line.

I'm in agreeance with those who want Weitering and Jaksch forward. Weitering is a no brainer for me, we need some intelligent talls down there and he's probably our smartest player and will be one of our best too.

The backline will be fine without him as we have Marchbank who looks like a gun, Plowman who was good last year and will only get better. We also have Macreadie developing who was very impressive in the JLT and JGM as the developing monster KPD. White is backup and A.Silvagni I would have in the team rnd 1 as the experienced key tall.

Anyway I digress, back to the forwards.. Rowe for me gets the relief ruck role as he's smarter than Casboult and can kick straight.

Sos is a must, has shown how clever he is as a forward and needs developing in the seniors.

Charlie is another smart player that's flexible and can kick a goal. The two small spots go to Pickett who's jist so classy and electric and either Sumner, Wright or Armfield.

I believe both Wright and Armfield will both be there to start the year but I'm hoping that at least Army gets pushed out soon

Charlie Weitering Sumner
Silvagni Jaksch Pickett

Wright, Palmer, Armfield, Rowe

Edit: Forgot to mention Jaksch, for me I also believe he needs an extended run in the seniors. He's a beautiful kick and a smart player too. It's make or break year for Kristian so if he's ever going to perform it's now. I say give him a real long go at it and watch his confidence sky rocket.

Mackay is going to need more time imo, sure give him some games but let's not throw him to the wolves rnd 1.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Gee the kid has only played a hand full of games and you are into him already. Let`s judge him by his efforts after he has played a few seasons at least !!!

I'm not "into him" I just have the perception that he was played before Jaksch last season after a brief run of games as much due to his performance as his name. His introduction to the team was carefully timed to correspond with the Collingwood game and was heavily used for promotional purposes. Even the whole "bloodlines" docco this season following the Silvagni's around Italy - its less about on field performance and more about a name. The last thing we need is complacency - so we need to make sure Jack isn't "comfortable".

Jack Silvagni has played more games for Carlton than Jaksch, and yet people are willing to write Jaksch off and say we will delist him at seasons end. We've been playing him as a forward in the VFL, but moving him around in the seniors. He's never played a full game up forward in the AFL (for Carlton at least).

Further, I think criticism of Jack's JLT performances is warranted (informed by my own perection and backed up by stats):
JLT 1 - 81% TOG, 6 touches (3 HB, 3 Kicks - 2 Contested, 4 Uncontested - 2 effective, 4 ineffective - 33.3% DE (The worst in the side)), 0 Goals, 0 Behinds
JLT 3 - 73% TOG, 10 touches (5 HB, 5 Kicks - 5 Contested, 5 Uncontested - 6 effective, 4 ineffective - 60% DE (bottom 3 in the side)), 1 Goal, 1 Behind

His JLT 3 was clearly better, but compare him with Jed Lamb who most people are suggesting we drop:
JLT 3 - 60% TOG, 9 touches (6 HB, 3 Kicks - 4 Contested, 5 Uncontested - 7 effective, 2 ineffective - 77.8% DE), 1 Goal, 1 Behind
Jed lamb had 1 less touch in 13% less game time but was more effective and hit the scoreboard the same amount for the match. He's a "clearly needs to be dropped" but Silvagni is in most peoples best 22. Surely we can agree there's a little bit of perception bias due to his name.

If its a choice between Jack or Jaksch, the latter has done more in the offseason to earn their selection as far as I'm concerned. Not saying he's not going to be a good long term option, but think there's value in Jack playing VFL for now.

 

[El Topo]

It's a good conversation to have, treat the young'uns like stars before they've achieved anything and nek minnut they'll be running around with man buns

 

[1981]

I see Weitering as a slightly less quick/agile N.Riewoldt, and I like him roaming as a high CHF.
Casboult for the long bomb under pressure to the Gl Sqr.
Jack on the lead into empty pockets.
Charlie to run onball a fair bit and use his tank and height to create mismatches when wandering into F50.
Wright and Pickett the small forwards. Sumner if fit too.

It all looks half decent. Just need to win our fair share of the ball and move it methodically and with precision, that seems to be our biggest problem.
Casboult is not a star and not the LT solution. That goes to McKay and/or B., so the finished product of a forwardline is years off.
But we knew that.

Wright and Casboult are ST solutions. Gap fillers.
Maybe chuck Daisy in there too, even though he doesnt kick many.

LeBois to me is a reach. Not sure he will make it. If he does it will take years.

Future Fwds...

Smalls : Pickett, Sumner
Genuine Talls : McKay, B.Silvagni
Medium Talls : J.Silvagni

I'd like to see us draft in a high quality bull HFF, like a Petracca type.
If McKay's progress in next 2 yrs doesn't have the shape of the right type of curve we are looking for then we need to get another high prospect tall fwd.
Doesn't mean you cut the lad, but you need to keep bringing them in if you're not 100% sure of what you've got.

 

[1981]

Curnow of course is the wild card. Clearly BB wants to see if he can crack it as a Mid, and he got 19 touches in PS2 so he may well make it as a Mid, but if he doesn't he is a sure fire bet to excel as a HFF IMO. Imagine Charlie and Weitering roaming CHF, it is a nice thing to dream about.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Who is our best KPF option. Weitering, Marchbank, Rowe, KJ, Kreuze?

I would understand a vote for Weitering but what sort of defence do Freo actually have? Lets not overrate Weiters fwd before we stack up proper evidence. Freo prolly have the worst defenders in the league aside from Brissy.

And yes, he did do better than Cas. But we need two talls down fwd. And Weitering robs our defence as someone like Mcarthy scores 5 goals.

Personally, Kristian Jaksch and Weitering at this point for me. They would be my FF and CHF for round one. After a few rounds playing with the NB, Id bring Macreadie into the mix as the third tall option. Id play Charlie through the middle of the ground, he has the tank for it.