Fixing the compensation system

[Gethelred]

Hawks cleared out all picks to get JOM and their latest Brownlow winner. It will happen if the quality is there

I'm not denying that it'd happen, and I'd argue that any trade/FA deal that involves this particular era of Hawthorn doesn't count. They do things weird and wonderful down there, are creative in the most mundane of trades, and find levers and pulleys where everyone else is finding twine and dust.

But by and large, clubs are conservative entities, and will hoard players and picks like dragons.

 

[mediumsizered]

The northern states academies are a rort, like COLA was a rort. They would be the first thing I would eliminate.

The AFL will argue that they have introduced the Next Gen Academies to balance out the advantage the northern teams have with their academies. Whether this is the case, time will tell. It was certainly noticeable both during the U18 National Championships & the TAC Cup finals that players from the NGAs are starting to come through (e.g. Quaynor, Thomas, among others). What this is doing though is further compromising the draft talent pool, potentially continuing to widen the gap between the haves & the have nots.

Much like the rules of the game, the AFL's tinkering with clubs' access to players via the draft, academies, FA etc, has only served to further muddy the waters & put the focus squarely back on compensation for those clubs who need it most.

 

[Stiffler's Dad]

this thread broke my skull

My niece just got a new kitten.

 

[thylacine60]

oh nice!

 

[Blue__Balls]

No, "niece".

 

[gbatman]

Let's go back 10 years ago and see what has changed in the AFL.

Changes
Gold Coast Suns & Greater Western Sydney
Free Agency in
Pre-season draft effectively made redundant
Priority picks effectively abolished


Effects

Two extra sides = Less talent to choose from
- Draft picks are further apart. 10 years ago if you finished last you would get pick 1, 17, 33 etc. Now it's 1, 19, 37 etc. Things get worse as you go.
- State Leagues left bare. There used to be plenty of talent in state leagues. Generally players put on the rookie list who could become good AFL players like Ed Curnow. Pull 88 odd players out of there and state league talent has become rare and lower quality. This is why the state league access is a joke and shows just how out of touch and unaware of how things have changed the AFL are.

Free Agency
- Strong clubs can restock. Tap the old stars on the shoulder then get free agents. They want to go and there is nothing opposition clubs can do about it.
- Force trades. Star players can be forced out of clubs, 1-2 years prior to free agency and because compensation is not great, top clubs can get them for unders.
- Makes player retention harder as the preseason draft is no threat. It's easy for players to walk, they can go where they like and they like to better sides if they are good players.

Pre-season draft
- Every now and then a bottom side could get a good player for nothing but not anymore. It's effectively gone. It was also a threat to keep players at a club.

Priority picks
- At some stage the AFL recognised that some clubs who bottomed right out were not getting enough resources under that current system which was a lot kinder than it is now so priority picks were brought in. How was it that those in charge recognised it then but now, under a more difficult and less resourced system, the ones in charge can not recognise the problem?
- Not only would a struggling club get picks 1, but sometimes pick 2 or 3 or 17 plus picks 18 and 34 etc. They were loaded with resources to rebuild their team more so than now.


What's Wrong
If you finish last you get pick 1, 19, 37 etc and that's it. Basically the AFL are saying go get stuffed, stay down the bottom for 7-10 years, don't try and rebuild and fix your problems because we don't give clubs the resources to do that anymore. Basically stay mediocre. Don't make mistakes or we'll punish you. It's a broken system which has become broken over the years due to expansion and whinging voices coming from fans of strong clubs, top clubs and betting agencies. The biggest reason is weak leadership at the AFL who cave to anything and are inept with their understanding of the current environment and what it takes to rebuild a list.

The AFL have gone from an environment where a club could bottom out, rebuild and do it in an acceptable time frame to a system where the time frame is no longer acceptable and they are failing to recognise the problem. They are failing to recognise the difference between rebuilding and restocking.

The AFL have created a system where you simply can't bottom out. It's like they are trying to force clubs to not bottom out. What if clubs have a problem with culture, age, salaries or just lack of quality? Are they not able to clean the list out and fix their problem? Do they deserve 7-10 years down the bottom? What a Joke the AFL have become denying clubs these rights.


Bottom Team Losses
Draft picks spread further apart, after the first round picks get later and later.
Preseason draft. Bottom teams can't use it as a threat to keep players and bottom teams can't access talent through it.
Priority draft picks.
Rookie draft picks and state league talent - There used to be pretty good state league players around during the rookie draft and some discards that made it. Now they are mostly gone.

Bottom team Gains
Nill

Top team gains
Free Agency allows top clubs to implement a restocking program by poaching top free agents either through free agency or by using it to force clubs to trade.


How To Equalise The System

Minimum Total Player Payments
Currently you have to pay 95% of the salary cap which I think is around the $12M range. So the best you can do is have $600,000 spare. How ridiculously crappy is this if you have a list like we have had with with a bucket load of young players, old rejects and players who are just no good. It's no wonder a club like Carlton has to pick up a bunch of second rate mature age players from other clubs to use as salary dumps to make the TPP.

So here is how you fix it. As soon as a team lands in the bottom 4 they automatically have a Minimum TPP of 90% and it doesn't go back up to 95% until the year after they finish in the top 10. This would allow clubs to clear out 1,200,000 plus salary dump players. IMO this would allow bottom clubs to take top free agents and force trades and make those clubs equal with the top sides when it comes to poaching top talent.

Priority picks. There was never anything wrong with Priority Picks. Of course everyone not getting one would complain about it. Of course betting agencies were going to cry tanking because of it. PP's should be given to clubs who have been bottom 4 for 2 consecutive seasons and they should come in after pick 14. This just takes the wind out of the top 4 sides who are over resourced a little and gives back to the really poor clubs. They are also picks which are likely to be traded which helps bring in mature aged players who can impact immediately.

Do this and the system is fixed and equal again.


Your only chance bottoming out in this time

Say you have a problem and you have to clean list like we have had. We've had a list that was too old, poor culture and grossly lacking talent and leadership.

Under the current system you have to plan a 6+ year rebuild. 3 good players a year for 6 years, you get 18 good players. Hopefully you can get more but with 3 really good draft picks and what ever you have to trade and that's it, you better strap yourselves in for the long haul as you acquire these players and wait for them to mature. Fingers crossed you can actually get free agents along the way or force the odd trade.

To do that you need salary dumps. You need mature bodies who can contribute at AFL level, add to the culture you are building and pay them an absolute fortune on 1 year contracts and you need heaps of them to make the minimum tpp so you can open the salary cap up at any time and never over pay your young players, that's only going to creat problems down the track.

Target young players in the draft and from other clubs and prepare to lose a lot of games for a lot of seasons because until the AFL hand resources back to struggling clubs this is just how it's going to be.

So basically what we are doing.

We don't need a priority pick/picks or salary cap assistance but if we had it we would not have to be down the bottom for so long. Having this system would not make us an unstoppable force. All it would do is get us up and going quicker.

IMO a system which gets struggling sides up and going quicker is a good one and that certainly is not what we have now. It's good for the clubs and for the game if teams don't spend long durations down the bottom and out of finals but we don't have that because the system is quite clearly broken.


Perpetually bottom sides
This is what has been created and everyone loses. People stop following the game. People stop going to games. People stop buying AFL memberships. People stop taking their kids to the game. People stop watching that game on TV. People drift away from the game and lose interest with their team being crap for so long. This is a problem for those clubs, for the AFL and for the game itself. Nothing wrong with a club being bottom for 4 or 5 years but 6-10. That does serious damage to those clubs and the game itself. Particularly when it's an expansion club like The Gold Coast Suns or a heavily followed club like Carlton.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

Let's go back 10 years ago and see what has changed in the AFL.

Changes
Gold Coast Suns & Greater Western Sydney
Free Agency in
Pre-season draft effectively made redundant
Priority picks effectively abolished


Effects

Two extra sides = Less talent to choose from
- Draft picks are further apart. 10 years ago if you finished last you would get pick 1, 17, 33 etc. Now it's 1, 19, 37 etc. Things get worse as you go.
- State Leagues left bare. There used to be plenty of talent in state leagues. Generally players put on the rookie list who could become good AFL players like Ed Curnow. Pull 88 odd players out of there and state league talent has become rare and lower quality. This is why the state league access is a joke and shows just how out of touch and unaware of how things have changed the AFL are.

Free Agency
- Strong clubs can restock. Tap the old stars on the shoulder then get free agents. They want to go and there is nothing opposition clubs can do about it.
- Force trades. Star players can be forced out of clubs, 1-2 years prior to free agency and because compensation is not great, top clubs can get them for unders.
- Makes player retention harder as the preseason draft is no threat. It's easy for players to walk, they can go where they like and they like to better sides if they are good players.

Pre-season draft
- Every now and then a bottom side could get a good player for nothing but not anymore. It's effectively gone. It was also a threat to keep players at a club.

Priority picks
- At some stage the AFL recognised that some clubs who bottomed right out were not getting enough resources under that current system which was a lot kinder than it is now so priority picks were brought in. How was it that those in charge recognised it then but now, under a more difficult and less resourced system, the ones in charge can not recognise the problem?
- Not only would a struggling club get picks 1, but sometimes pick 2 or 3 or 17 plus picks 18 and 34 etc. They were loaded with resources to rebuild their team more so than now.


What's Wrong
If you finish last you get pick 1, 19, 37 etc and that's it. Basically the AFL are saying go get stuffed, stay down the bottom for 7-10 years, don't try and rebuild and fix your problems because we don't give clubs the resources to do that anymore. Basically stay mediocre. Don't make mistakes or we'll punish you. It's a broken system which has become broken over the years due to expansion and whinging voices coming from fans of strong clubs, top clubs and betting agencies. The biggest reason is weak leadership at the AFL who cave to anything and are inept with their understanding of the current environment and what it takes to rebuild a list.

The AFL have gone from an environment where a club could bottom out, rebuild and do it in an acceptable time frame to a system where the time frame is no longer acceptable and they are failing to recognise the problem. They are failing to recognise the difference between rebuilding and restocking.

The AFL have created a system where you simply can't bottom out. It's like they are trying to force clubs to not bottom out. What if clubs have a problem with culture, age, salaries or just lack of quality? Are they not able to clean the list out and fix their problem? Do they deserve 7-10 years down the bottom? What a Joke the AFL have become denying clubs these rights.


Bottom Team Losses
Draft picks spread further apart, after the first round picks get later and later.
Preseason draft. Bottom teams can't use it as a threat to keep players and bottom teams can't access talent through it.
Priority draft picks.
Rookie draft picks and state league talent - There used to be pretty good state league players around during the rookie draft and some discards that made it. Now they are mostly gone.

Bottom team Gains
Nill

Top team gains
Free Agency allows top clubs to implement a restocking program by poaching top free agents either through free agency or by using it to force clubs to trade.


How To Equalise The System

Minimum Total Player Payments
Currently you have to pay 95% of the salary cap which I think is around the $12M range. So the best you can do is have $600,000 spare. How ridiculously crappy is this if you have a list like we have had with with a bucket load of young players, old rejects and players who are just no good. It's no wonder a club like Carlton has to pick up a bunch of second rate mature age players from other clubs to use as salary dumps to make the TPP.

So here is how you fix it. As soon as a team lands in the bottom 4 they automatically have a Minimum TPP of 90% and it doesn't go back up to 95% until the year after they finish in the top 10. This would allow clubs to clear out 1,200,000 plus salary dump players. IMO this would allow bottom clubs to take top free agents and force trades and make those clubs equal with the top sides when it comes to poaching top talent.

Priority picks. There was never anything wrong with Priority Picks. Of course everyone not getting one would complain about it. Of course betting agencies were going to cry tanking because of it. PP's should be given to clubs who have been bottom 4 for 2 consecutive seasons and they should come in after pick 14. This just takes the wind out of the top 4 sides who are over resourced a little and gives back to the really poor clubs. They are also picks which are likely to be traded which helps bring in mature aged players who can impact immediately.

Do this and the system is fixed and equal again.


Your only chance bottoming out in this time

Say you have a problem and you have to clean list like we have had. We've had a list that was too old, poor culture and grossly lacking talent and leadership.

Under the current system you have to plan a 6+ year rebuild. 3 good players a year for 6 years, you get 18 good players. Hopefully you can get more but with 3 really good draft picks and what ever you have to trade and that's it, you better strap yourselves in for the long haul as you acquire these players and wait for them to mature. Fingers crossed you can actually get free agents along the way or force the odd trade.

To do that you need salary dumps. You need mature bodies who can contribute at AFL level, add to the culture you are building and pay them an absolute fortune on 1 year contracts and you need heaps of them to make the minimum tpp so you can open the salary cap up at any time and never over pay your young players, that's only going to creat problems down the track.

Target young players in the draft and from other clubs and prepare to lose a lot of games for a lot of seasons because until the AFL hand resources back to struggling clubs this is just how it's going to be.

So basically what we are doing.

We don't need a priority pick/picks or salary cap assistance but if we had it we would not have to be down the bottom for so long. Having this system would not make us an unstoppable force. All it would do is get us up and going quicker.

IMO a system which gets struggling sides up and going quicker is a good one and that certainly is not what we have now. It's good for the clubs and for the game if teams don't spend long durations down the bottom and out of finals but we don't have that because the system is quite clearly broken.


Perpetually bottom sides
This is what has been created and everyone loses. People stop following the game. People stop going to games. People stop buying AFL memberships. People stop taking their kids to the game. People stop watching that game on TV. People drift away from the game and lose interest with their team being crap for so long. This is a problem for those clubs, for the AFL and for the game itself. Nothing wrong with a club being bottom for 4 or 5 years but 6-10. That does serious damage to those clubs and the game itself. Particularly when it's an expansion club like The Gold Coast Suns or a heavily followed club like Carlton.

I reckon Gold Coast will get a priority pick next year.
Out goes Lynch, May, Hall, Martin ... maybe others ...
In comes a bunch of a State League players, Tigers not best 22 and GHS ... and kids ...

 

[BluesRule]

Let's go back 10 years ago and see what has changed in the AFL.

Changes
Gold Coast Suns & Greater Western Sydney
Free Agency in
Pre-season draft effectively made redundant
Priority picks effectively abolished


Effects

Two extra sides = Less talent to choose from
- Draft picks are further apart. 10 years ago if you finished last you would get pick 1, 17, 33 etc. Now it's 1, 19, 37 etc. Things get worse as you go.
- State Leagues left bare. There used to be plenty of talent in state leagues. Generally players put on the rookie list who could become good AFL players like Ed Curnow. Pull 88 odd players out of there and state league talent has become rare and lower quality. This is why the state league access is a joke and shows just how out of touch and unaware of how things have changed the AFL are.

Free Agency
- Strong clubs can restock. Tap the old stars on the shoulder then get free agents. They want to go and there is nothing opposition clubs can do about it.
- Force trades. Star players can be forced out of clubs, 1-2 years prior to free agency and because compensation is not great, top clubs can get them for unders.
- Makes player retention harder as the preseason draft is no threat. It's easy for players to walk, they can go where they like and they like to better sides if they are good players.

Pre-season draft
- Every now and then a bottom side could get a good player for nothing but not anymore. It's effectively gone. It was also a threat to keep players at a club.

Priority picks
- At some stage the AFL recognised that some clubs who bottomed right out were not getting enough resources under that current system which was a lot kinder than it is now so priority picks were brought in. How was it that those in charge recognised it then but now, under a more difficult and less resourced system, the ones in charge can not recognise the problem?
- Not only would a struggling club get picks 1, but sometimes pick 2 or 3 or 17 plus picks 18 and 34 etc. They were loaded with resources to rebuild their team more so than now.


What's Wrong
If you finish last you get pick 1, 19, 37 etc and that's it. Basically the AFL are saying go get stuffed, stay down the bottom for 7-10 years, don't try and rebuild and fix your problems because we don't give clubs the resources to do that anymore. Basically stay mediocre. Don't make mistakes or we'll punish you. It's a broken system which has become broken over the years due to expansion and whinging voices coming from fans of strong clubs, top clubs and betting agencies. The biggest reason is weak leadership at the AFL who cave to anything and are inept with their understanding of the current environment and what it takes to rebuild a list.

The AFL have gone from an environment where a club could bottom out, rebuild and do it in an acceptable time frame to a system where the time frame is no longer acceptable and they are failing to recognise the problem. They are failing to recognise the difference between rebuilding and restocking.

The AFL have created a system where you simply can't bottom out. It's like they are trying to force clubs to not bottom out. What if clubs have a problem with culture, age, salaries or just lack of quality? Are they not able to clean the list out and fix their problem? Do they deserve 7-10 years down the bottom? What a Joke the AFL have become denying clubs these rights.


Bottom Team Losses
Draft picks spread further apart, after the first round picks get later and later.
Preseason draft. Bottom teams can't use it as a threat to keep players and bottom teams can't access talent through it.
Priority draft picks.
Rookie draft picks and state league talent - There used to be pretty good state league players around during the rookie draft and some discards that made it. Now they are mostly gone.

Bottom team Gains
Nill

Top team gains
Free Agency allows top clubs to implement a restocking program by poaching top free agents either through free agency or by using it to force clubs to trade.


How To Equalise The System

Minimum Total Player Payments
Currently you have to pay 95% of the salary cap which I think is around the $12M range. So the best you can do is have $600,000 spare. How ridiculously crappy is this if you have a list like we have had with with a bucket load of young players, old rejects and players who are just no good. It's no wonder a club like Carlton has to pick up a bunch of second rate mature age players from other clubs to use as salary dumps to make the TPP.

So here is how you fix it. As soon as a team lands in the bottom 4 they automatically have a Minimum TPP of 90% and it doesn't go back up to 95% until the year after they finish in the top 10. This would allow clubs to clear out 1,200,000 plus salary dump players. IMO this would allow bottom clubs to take top free agents and force trades and make those clubs equal with the top sides when it comes to poaching top talent.

Priority picks. There was never anything wrong with Priority Picks. Of course everyone not getting one would complain about it. Of course betting agencies were going to cry tanking because of it. PP's should be given to clubs who have been bottom 4 for 2 consecutive seasons and they should come in after pick 14. This just takes the wind out of the top 4 sides who are over resourced a little and gives back to the really poor clubs. They are also picks which are likely to be traded which helps bring in mature aged players who can impact immediately.

Do this and the system is fixed and equal again.


Your only chance bottoming out in this time

Say you have a problem and you have to clean list like we have had. We've had a list that was too old, poor culture and grossly lacking talent and leadership.

Under the current system you have to plan a 6+ year rebuild. 3 good players a year for 6 years, you get 18 good players. Hopefully you can get more but with 3 really good draft picks and what ever you have to trade and that's it, you better strap yourselves in for the long haul as you acquire these players and wait for them to mature. Fingers crossed you can actually get free agents along the way or force the odd trade.

To do that you need salary dumps. You need mature bodies who can contribute at AFL level, add to the culture you are building and pay them an absolute fortune on 1 year contracts and you need heaps of them to make the minimum tpp so you can open the salary cap up at any time and never over pay your young players, that's only going to creat problems down the track.

Target young players in the draft and from other clubs and prepare to lose a lot of games for a lot of seasons because until the AFL hand resources back to struggling clubs this is just how it's going to be.

So basically what we are doing.

We don't need a priority pick/picks or salary cap assistance but if we had it we would not have to be down the bottom for so long. Having this system would not make us an unstoppable force. All it would do is get us up and going quicker.

IMO a system which gets struggling sides up and going quicker is a good one and that certainly is not what we have now. It's good for the clubs and for the game if teams don't spend long durations down the bottom and out of finals but we don't have that because the system is quite clearly broken.


Perpetually bottom sides
This is what has been created and everyone loses. People stop following the game. People stop going to games. People stop buying AFL memberships. People stop taking their kids to the game. People stop watching that game on TV. People drift away from the game and lose interest with their team being crap for so long. This is a problem for those clubs, for the AFL and for the game itself. Nothing wrong with a club being bottom for 4 or 5 years but 6-10. That does serious damage to those clubs and the game itself. Particularly when it's an expansion club like The Gold Coast Suns or a heavily followed club like Carlton.

Funny thing is when Carlton reach the top after 20 years of struggles they will decide that it took too long and give everybody else a better path back from the bottom in future. Another Carlton rule.

 

[gbatman]

Funny thing is when Carlton reach the top after 20 years of struggles they will decide that it took too long and give everybody else a better path back from the bottom in future. Another Carlton rule.

100% I've been thinking this for a while.

 

[Big Red is back]

fixing is easy .. the team that gets compensation say a first rounder for a free agent loss should equally see the team that gets the free agent give up their pick from the same round.