The Law Foglights - Why on earth is it illegal to use them?

[And_ROOS]

na mine are seperate to the high beams.. theres a seperate switch...

high beams are much brighter

No mine was the same, i had a button that would turn them on whenever you wanted, but what you have by definition are driving lights, although some manuals refer to them incorrectly as foglights, and should only be used in high beam situations.

Honestly, each state and then each cop have their own effing theory on them. I remember leaving mine on while i drove for a year, then went to Echuca for a weekend and a cop told me if i didnt turn my foglights (driving lights you ass) off then he would fine me.

 

[Bonobo Jean]

Article from the NRMA that sheds some light (ha ha):

http://www.openroad.com.au/motoring_roadsafety_headlightssafefeature.asp

what are you talking about.. fog lights on the back of your car.. fog lights are on the front.. to see where you are going in the.. get this.. the fog; Not to see where you have been.... I guess not only the water runs backwards down under but the logic does too.. fog lights on the rear of the car are not fog lights.. they are backup lights.. crazy

 

[The Unforgiven]

what are you talking about.. fog lights on the back of your car.. fog lights are on the front.. to see where you are going in the.. get this.. the fog; Not to see where you have been.... I guess not only the water runs backwards down under but the logic does too.. fog lights on the rear of the car are not fog lights.. they are backup lights.. crazy

You thread mine a six and a half year thread to post this crap with your first post?

 

[Illinois Nazi]

Strong opening. I look forward to future contributions by this poster.

 

[The Unforgiven]

Strong opening. I look forward to future contributions by this poster.

The chimps doing it missionary is a ripper av, I'll give them that!

 

[little graham]

Fog lights make it harder to judge the distance and speed of the car.

 

[Nardz]

Fog lights make it harder to judge the distance and speed of the car.

lol how do you suggest they do that?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[little graham]

lol how do you suggest they do that?

By pressing the reply tab, typing in the box and pressing post reply.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Never understood the 200m behind rule, on the open highway you can annoy the **** out of drivers sitting behind them at that distance with high beams on.

I know this is a 6 year old post but the rule when I was getting my licence was either 200m or when you realise that your lights may be interfering with the vision of oncoming traffic.

Lighting technology has advanced so much these days. When I drive up to my work on a Sunday night, I'll have between 4 and 6 road trains travelling in the opposite direction from local mine sites. There are stretches of road where we'll turn our spotties off 6km from each other because they are just too bright, especially on the trucks.

 

[Pie eyed]

i for the life of me cannot figure out why it is illegal to use your fog lights while driving. i have twice now been told off by cops at a booze bus - the last one was an absolute ****** about it.

They are the same brightness as the normal headlights, except they are lower. they do not disrupt other drivers in any way whatsoever. i have NEVER said to myself "I wish that guy behind me would turn his foglights off".

I'm not talking about those massive ones that u see on utes and wrx's. i'm talking about the stock standard factory fitted 2 inch lights.

It is illegal to drive with them - yet it is perfectly legal for a 4WD to drive with their headlights 20 cm higher than any other cars headlights, perfectly angled at the rear view mirror of the car in front of them - now that is something that has bothered me quite often.

talk about ridiculous laws....

Using fog lights antagonises people who do not have them. Police especially do not like them yet they constantly waffle on about being drivers being "visible" even suggesting you should have your lights on during the day. I've had the discussion with a copper who had no answer other than to threaten a ticket for some manufactured offence.

 

[The Unforgiven]

A few years back I was pulled over for having my fog lights on. My wife had driven home from work on a foggy freeway in July. I had already been home an hour or so and we were heading off for some dinner.

Anyway, so she jumped out of the driver's seat and into the passanger seat and we headed off. I'd only gotten a few hundred metres down the road when we passed a cop. I noticed he quickly did a U-turn and proceeded to fly up behind me with his lights and sirens on.

I pulled over and the officer came up to my window and told me he was issuing me a ticket for the offence "using fog lights while not permitted to do so". I tried to reason with the officer, I even explained the situation and that it'd been foggy on the freeway and that I also wasn't aware the lights were on.

His response: "I don't care where it was foggy, it's not foggy right here and now. I also don't care whether you knew the lights were on or not, as a responsible motorist you should be fully aware of all the functions of the motor vehicle at all times while it's in operation".

Now, at this point my heavily pregnant wife who is also a Lawyer, attempted to ask the officer what exactly the problem with using fog lights when it wasn't foggy was. He turned to her and snapped: "if I wanted to hear from you, madam, I would have asked".

I was irate at this point and told him that his attitude was unnecessarily aggressive and that he'd be best served to issue me with a caution as it was hardly a significant crime. He refused to budge and proceeded to issue the notice.

I pressed him again on why using fog lights was an issue and he said that "fog lights can change the perception of oncoming traffic that there's more than one car heading in the opposite direction". I said: "so"? And he said "anything which changes the perception of an oncoming vehicle is deemed dangerous and therefore will attract an infringement, end of story".

I refused to pay the fine and elected to front a magistrate. I wrote an accompanying letter to the Police which they took into account, including the conduct of said officer, prior to the court hearing. Lo and behold, when it was my turn to front the magistrate - the Police prosecution noted and annulled the letter as inadmissible.

The magistrate asked me how a would like to plead, to which I responded "not guilty". I pleaded ot guilty on the ground of it being a trifling offence. The magistrate disagreed, said and I quote "fog lights have the potential to 'dazzle' oncoming traffic and therefore the offence is hardly trifling".

I said to the magistrate "with all due respect, your honour, fog lights are mounted low and deep within the bumper cavity with the intention of piercing through low-lying fog. If there were a possibility that fog lights would dazzle oncoming traffic, one could logically deduce that by this very nature they'd be rendered unfit for their intended purpose".

The magistrate agreed with me, but he still found me guilty of the offence. He removed the monetary component from my fine, but I still had to pay a Victim of Crimes Levy for appearing in court which ended up being a similar cost to the $180 fine. Time wasted for no real result, but fcuk it felt good for a fleeting moment to stick it up them!

 

[skilts]

Well done that man, sort of.

 

[sudakf]

By chance I visit this discussion and even with the fact that it's old, I must to react:

I. Front fog lights are pair of headlamps, with special symmetric, sharp and wide cutoff pattern and with as small as possible light's emitting up from cutoff; thay can emite white, selective yellow or Amber color (Amber only us specs SAE J583 front fog lamps).

Rear fog lamp(s) is one, or pair, of high intensity red tail lamps, emmited illumination between 150 - 600 cd in axis @ 25.0 m (ECE), or between 80 - 300 cd @ 25.0 m (SAE). If is one only, must be placed on the centre, or driver's side (on opposite side than is side of traffic in vehicle's registration country), of vehicle, if is in pair, must be placed simmetrically on both sides.

First front fog lamp introduce Germany Bosh company in 1930. Fog start cca 1-2 feet above ground and drivers assembled this lamp on driver's opposite side so they can see near road edge next before the vehicle when they drive very reduced speed on.

Typically European asymmetrical dipped-beam (common in Commonwealth of Australia) produce countinously illumination before vehicle, with sharp cutoff symmetrically on driver's side and a symmetrically at the angle 45° up the cutoff on driver's opposite side, but every headlamp must have overlap of light above pattern. First reason is visibility of traffic signs & meeting the condition "be seen" too. Second reason is technically impossible build headlamp with no lights up to pattern. Light up to pattern is strictly limited to 2 lux (200 cd) @ 25.0 m.

Rear fog lamp emitted simmilary light as each brake lamp. If it's visibility seriously reduced, they are used to ensure visibility of the vehicle from a sufficient distance, typically between 50 - 150 m. Regular tail lamps are in heavy fog, mist, haze, dust, rain or snow seeing only from few metres.

II. ECE UN regulation no. 19 & SAE J583 class B front fog lamp, in minimally specification, must not emit not more than 2 lux (200 cd) light up to the cutoff pattern on 25 metres. The same restriction as for ECE low-beam headlamp, butt cca on 1/3 intensity opposite than regular us DOT low-beam headlamp (limited to 6.25 lux / 635 cd @ 100 feet).

In minimally specification each front fog lamps must emit main beam of light pattern at the angle 15° to left and right from the centre of headlight main beam pattern, less then normal ECE asymmetrically low-beam pattern.

III. If fog lamps make to do safisfactory work, must be relatively big and very good quality, with very wide light's pattern, very sharp cutoff and with minimally light up to the cutoff. Almost all fog lamps from vehicle's manufacturers and most of sold auxiliary fog lamps not meet this requirements.

Fog lamps must be very accurately aiming. Typically aiming requires folding of main beam pattern about 4" on 25 feet, or about percents as prescribed by the vehicle manufacturer. If they aren't, they dazzling oncoming traffic, and vehicle's driver too, more than regular low-beam headlamps.

Human eyes have problem with processing blue component of light. And selective yellow is the correct light which does not have a blue folder. Driver subjectively sense selective yellow light as less dazzling and tiring than white light. That's why, good fog lamps are selective yellow lamps.

IV. Why is banned by law use fog lights if visibility isn't seriously reduced:

a) because fog lamps emitted light next to the vehicle and illuminate space to distance maximal 25 m (minimally 45 / 75 m in ECE low beam on symmetrical / assymetrical part of light), driver automatically follow near foreground and this extends the reaction time,

b) because fog lamps emitted more light on the road opposite driver subjectively perceives fog lamps as more dazzling than regular low-beam headlamp's light, although reality is exactly the opposite.

V. Why is banned by law using of rear fog lamps if visibility isn't seriously reduced:

a) Subjective perception of light intensity is proportional in 1:3:5 for white:yellow:red. We subjectively perceive red 100 cd as 500 cd white, yellow 100 cd as 300 cd white. Especially ECE specified rear fog lamp emited stronger light than brake lamp and 300 cd red, on 25 m, subjective is as 1,500 cd white. And that's may be very dazzling in normal weather condition night for some people (the photosensitivity of the human eye varies from person to person and changes with age),

b) Despite the fact that minimally distance between each brake lamp and each rear fog lamps must be 100 mm, correct and timely recognition of brake lamps signal is established when rear fog lamps are on, and and all the more established when is good visibility, when are use pair of rear fog lamps and when distance between brake lamps and rear fog lamps is smaller.

Correct and timely recognition:

1. No turn on your from fog lamps if you drive in speed more than 15-20 MPH, Correct and timely recognition and will be dangerous for you.

2. Use your rear fog lamps if you have problem seeing regular tail lamps of others vehicles. If the visibility is not regulated by state law, it's recommended turn on rear fog lamps if the visibility is reduced less than 500 feet. And if the other vehicle runs from behind and don't passing you.

More informations:

Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply

Car fog lamps: Why, how, which, when...and not!

www.danielsternlighting.com

Rear Fog Lights

dastern.torque.net

Historical development and current effectiveness of rear lighting systems

deepblue.lib.umich.edu

 

[Pessimistic]

Very bad for other drivers in rain at night. Didn’t opt for them on any of my Cars because I’ve seen one foggy day maximum per year in eastern Melbourne

 

[HairyO]

w***ers at car magazines started a trend to use fog lights during good weather, followed by w***ers who cant even see the effect of their fog lights but feel that everyone else should.

 

[Seeds]

i have never had an issue with someone elses fog lights. never.

I have a problem everytime. Maybe you just have different light sensitivity than other people.

 

[owen87]

Why does this thread have two posters that their first and only post is in here? So strange.

 

[peternorth]

Why does this thread have two posters that their first and only post is in here? So strange.

Maybe they are from bigfoglights.com.au

 

[Syd]

Maybe they are from bigfoglights.com.au

#girlsturnonyourhighbeams

 

[Pie eyed]

i have never had an issue with someone elses fog lights. never.

Likewise, they do actually make a very real difference on country roads in foggy conditions and also at dawn and dusk as they light the sides of the road, allowing better spotting of suicidal marsupials and the like.
I believe they have the same aggravating effect on police as driving lights on the roll bar or a reversing spotlight, despite these being legal if correctly switched and installed. Young blokes driving aerial farms to ute musters could be at the root of this.

 

[Pessimistic]

Back a few years but d heads in England used to have them on is rainy traffic jams. Totally pissing everyone else off