Football Related Random Thread - PART 2

[briztoon]

I dont understand what you are saying.

If a player (uncontracted) wants to play with a nominated club, providing that club wants him at their club, I dont understand what is stopping them from forming an agreement.

I'm not understanding what you are saying.

Current AFL restricted free agency rules.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Bring back Bernie Gabba Vegas

Bring back Oba!!!

Photog credit to Mr Ripper

 

[Mr Ripper]

Bring back Oba!!!

Photog credit to Mr Ripper

Never found out who owns that arm.

 

[Section 5]

I had a chat once with a certain AFL identity who admitted that all their draft rules and trading rules would not survive a restraint of trade case.
Their strategy was simply to outlast the opponents.If the rules were overturned they would bring in similar but different rules.
If they were overturned , new rules and so on and so on.
For those with long memories this was around the time of the Brett Cook saga .
The strategy may have changed but it was an interesting insight into the long game they were playing at the time.
The chap I was talking to certainly was informed and knew exactly what he was talking about but I prefer not to name him.

A quick google search came up with this below

In November 1986, Buckenara decided to move back to Perth with his family.[5] The previous year, his mother Dawn had become paralyzed following a serious car accident, and with the West Coast Eagles having been granted admission into the VFL for the next season, Buckenara had been offered the vice-captaincy.[3] As Buckenara sought a release from his contract, Hawthorn's chief executive John Lauritz went to the Victorian Supreme Court and argued that Buckenara needed to honour his contract as a legally binding document, lest it cause another chaotic legal precedent similar to that of Silvio Foschini back in 1983.

Buckenara put the disappointment of the legal case behind him, and increased the 2-year option to three years, and proceeded to enjoy another stellar season with Hawthorn.
.....................................................
I don't think AFL players will be successful in a "restraint of trade " court case while the AFL have the below policies in place
Maybe a case could be made if something in the below policies, agreements, rules, codes etc was actually illegal
There are 49 in total, but these 9 are the main ones

A player and their legal representation would have to fine a loophole somewhere in the policies that applies to them
Even then it does not mean it would survive a court challenge

The AFLPA and players agree to play under these policies. Contracts are included in these policies
However, i doubt many players actually read these policies

AFL Policies​

AFL Laws of the Game
AFL Rules
AFL Regulations
Collective Bargaining Agreement
AFLW Collective Bargaining Agreement
Match Review Officer/Tribunal Guidelines
Non-Broadcast Rights Holder Camera Access Policy
Privacy Policy
Respect & Responsibility Policy
Whistleblower Policy
Whistleblower Reporting Procedure
Make a Whistleblower Report

 

[POBT]

The current player movement rules would potentially be an unlawful restraint of trade. That's no certainty, because there's no precedent in Australia which is on point, but theres enough to make the AFL nervous.

The fact that the AFLPA signs off on a term doesn't necessarily make it lawful. In the States, it is one factor that the courts have determined is relevant to consideration of whether anti-trust law has been breached. But Australian courts haven't even considered that issue.

The current arrangements rely on everyone being happy enough with that arrangement to ensure no-one will challenge it. Players want unrestricted movement but know that's unrealistic and problematic for a national competition. The AFL would love more power in clubs' hands to trade players against their will but know the AFLPA could crash the whole draft/trade system if the AFL pushes too hard. So there's a middle ground found that both parties can live with.

An individual wishing to challenge the system would likely do so without AFLPA support, meaning they would need to find it themselves. A trip down to the Federal Court would be an extensive and time consuming exercise, even if you have a reasonable chance of winning (which you likely don't).

All of that adds up to the current arrangements, which have been in place for 30+ years in their basic form, and have kept out of the courts.

 

[dlanod]

The current player movement rules would potentially be an unlawful restraint of trade. That's no certainty, because there's no precedent in Australia which is on point, but theres enough to make the AFL nervous.

The fact that the AFLPA signs off on a term doesn't necessarily make it lawful. In the States, it is one factor that the courts have determined is relevant to consideration of whether anti-trust law has been breached. But Australian courts haven't even considered that issue.

The current arrangements rely on everyone being happy enough with that arrangement to ensure no-one will challenge it. Players want unrestricted movement but know that's unrealistic and problematic for a national competition. The AFL would love more power in clubs' hands to trade players against their will but know the AFLPA could crash the whole draft/trade system if the AFL pushes too hard. So there's a middle ground found that both parties can live with.

An individual wishing to challenge the system would likely do so without AFLPA support, meaning they would need to find it themselves. A trip down to the Federal Court would be an extensive and time consuming exercise, even if you have a reasonable chance of winning (which you likely don't).

All of that adds up to the current arrangements, which have been in place for 30+ years in their basic form, and have kept out of the courts.

The NRL (or NSWRL at the time) already had their draft struck down as a restraint of trade back in the '90s, so that part at least hasn't gone a leg to stand on beyond mutual agreement not to rock the boat. The rest is relatively untested - but I agree, ultimately the main thing keeping it all in place is both sides being ok with the situation. It's also why the AFL is begrudgingly willing to increase player movement every time the AFLPA requests it, whether it's free agency, or then lifetime free agency, etc. We'll probably continue along the step by step process to more player movement for that same reason.

 

[lionraven]

If the AFL was challenged surely they would move to a licensing system where only licensed players are eligible to play in the competition. Then the AFL can impose whatever restrictions necessary to get and maintain a playet licence (ie drafting, trading etc). Players wouldn't be restricted in signing whatever contracts they want with whomever stakeholders but the contract would be meaningless to the team if the player isnt eligible for a playing license. They would just be paying someone for no reason

 

[MacMum]

Having had a cancer incident just before Christnas and a wife on indefinite chemoyou have my sympathies

Thank you morsie:....but so sorry to hear of your problems with cancer. It's a hideous disease and doesn't care who it strikes. my thoughts to both you and your wife

 

[Section 5]

If the AFL was challenged surely they would move to a licensing system where only licensed players are eligible to play in the competition. Then the AFL can impose whatever restrictions necessary to get and maintain a playet licence (ie drafting, trading etc). Players wouldn't be restricted in signing whatever contracts they want with whomever stakeholders but the contract would be meaningless to the team if the player isnt eligible for a playing license. They would just be paying someone for no reason

Not sure what you may mean by "licensed players". But all players must be registered to play
Below extract from AFL Rules dated 2nd March 2022
..............................................................................

4. Registration of Players

4.1 All Players to be Registered
A Club shall not play any person in any Team unless that person is registered with the AFL as a Player with that Club.
A person shall be deemed to be registered with the AFL as a Player with a Club where that person has complied with the requirements of Rule
4.2 and that person has not been de-registered as a Player. Maximum Sanction: Maximum 20 Units (Also refer Rules 5.6)

4.2 Eligibility and Requirements for Registration
No person shall be registered or be entitled to be registered with the AFL as a Player with a Club unless he was eligible to be and has been drafted onto or included on a Club’s List and the AFL has:

(a) Registration Application received and approved each year a duly completed Registration Application by the AFL from time to time;

(b) Declaration - Player received a Declaration setting out the Football Payments to be made in respect of that person in the form prescribed in Schedule 1 as Form 2 and made by the person wishing to be registered; (Also refer Rules 39.5 and 39.6)

(c) Declaration – Officer of Club received a Declaration setting out the Football Payments to be made in respect of that person in the form prescribed in Schedule 1 as Form 3 and made by an Officer of the Club who had the care and conduct of the negotiations with the Player; (Also refer Rules 39.5 and 39.6)

(d) Declaration – Representative or Relative where a Player has authorised an Accredited Agent, parent or legal guardian to act on his behalf in negotiating with the Club, received a Declaration made by that person in the form prescribed in Schedule 1 as Form 4

(e) Contract of Service
received a Contract of Service in triplicate executed by the person seeking registration and an Authorised Officer of the Club with which he wishes to play, which is then executed by the AFL

4.3 Contracts

(a) No Player shall be engaged by a Club other than under the Contract of Service lodged with the AFL. The Contract of Service shall be in the form prescribed from time to time by the AFL and the AFLPA.

(b) All Contracts of Service lodged with the AFL under these Rules shall terminate or expire (other than by reason of default or breach which entitles any party to terminate) on or prior to the 31st day of October in the final year in which the Player's services are to be provided under such contract

 

[25 years on]

If all players were employed by the AFL, they could always leave their employ and go to work for another football competition

 

[briztoon]

GWS to new WC.

 

[Section 5]

Link below to the Lions 2022 Financial report year ending 31st October 2022
The club released a few details in the Chairman's report a while back but nothing since
The Chairman did mention the operating profit for the 2022 year was used to complete Brighton Homes Arena
That will have a big effect on next year's figures. So, let's hope we have a year that at least matches 2022 on field.

My take on the report, so just my opinion

https://resources.lions.com.au/aflc-bl/document/2023/01/09/c78c8030-2fe6-4f4b-90dd-96c8af5f9a78/2022_Financial_Report.pdf

................................................................
Copy/past from report
OPERATING AND FINANCIAL REVIEW
The profit for the year was $37,750,983 (2021: $25,337,691). Included in this profit is grant and fundraising revenue of $35,365,986 (2021: $22,399,654).
The operating profit before grant income was $2,384,997 (2021: $2,938,037).
Net profit amounts have been calculated in accordance with Australian Accounting Standards (AASBs). The Company is exempt from payment of income tax under the provisions of section 50 - 45 of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997
................................................................
Below my interoperation of some parts of the report

AFL Distributions
Net AFL distributions to Lions + $2.7 million to $23.063 million

Social Club
You have to extract the only two figures mentioned in the accounts.
Revenue $19.725 million less Expenses $13.188 million gives you a $6.5 million profit?.
Each year i am critical of how this figure is portrayed.

Assets
Total assets not surprisingly increased $14.7 million to $95.527 million with Brighton Homes Arena stage 1 completed.
Net assets increased $15.641 million to $53.446 million.

Joint Venture
Club entered into a 50/50 joint venture with Total Fusion to run a corporate gym. $250,000 loan to the venture for working capitol.

Borrowings
AFL $10 million unchanged from 2021. Payable on demand
Westpac bank $8 million unchanged from 2021. General Secured over the Lions assets.

Leases
Gabba lease expired, and new match day hire agreement being renegotiated. Would include Lions shop and match day merchandising stalls.
Social club Springwood 3 years, + 2 x 10-year options. Westpac has a guarantee to the landlord of $325,278 to cover bond.
Brighton Homes Arena peppercorn lease 50 years + 49-year option. $1 PA for the first 20 years. Market rental determined after 20 years.
Marvel Stadium lease expired, rental now on a month-to-month basis.

Profit & Loss
Profit of $37.750 million but that includes $35.366 million in grant money. So really it is $2.384 million.

When your revenue increases substantially so do your expenses usually. Plus, we were coming off a slow 2021 covid year.

Revenue +26.9%

Less expenses
Cost of goods + 37.4%
Marketing + 29.6%
Administration +26%
Membership + 13%
Football +18%
Lease of football park + 25.4%
Social club + 6%
Other +9%

This all equates to $2.384 million profit which is actually an 18.82% drop in profit from the previous year (or a drop of $0.553 million)

 

[Saucery]

The Numbers have never and will never stand up - it’s should have been knocked on the head once covid hit. AFL has zero $$$ at community level…absolute zero it cannot and will not fund a new stadium - I cannot see why the Feds would either.

I doubt Tasmania’s would accept a relocated team. All in all it’s a s**t show

And the sh1t show grows!

"The proposed stadium at Hobart's Macquarie Point would generate a loss of more than $300 million over 20 years of operation, according to a newly released cost-benefit analysis."

Premier holding tight to AFL stadium dream, despite cost-benefit analysis

A new estimate suggests Hobart's proposed AFL stadium could lose about $300 million over 20 years — but Tasmania's premier says it will be an economic and cultural boon for the state.

www.abc.net.au

This in a state which has the worst education outcomes in the country (worse even than the NT). What a waste.

 

[Section 5]

AFL accused of failing to protect players from concussion in submission to parliament

Player agent Peter Jess lists 32 AFL players that have retired with some form of brain trauma injury since 2009

www.theguardian.com

 

[Saucery]

AFL accused of failing to protect players from concussion in submission to parliament

Player agent Peter Jess lists 32 AFL players that have retired with some form of brain trauma injury since 2009

www.theguardian.com

Yes it's all about to go pear shaped for contact sports, like in Scotland players aren't allowed to header the ball before and after matches.

Scottish footballers to be banned from heading ball before and after matches

Clubs also advised to limit heading training after research showing link with brain disease

www.theguardian.com

Or like in the UK where ex rugby players are suing their league over brain injury.

Ex-British & Irish Lions stars join brain injury legal action

Ex-Wales winger Lenny Woodard says people will be "shocked" when the full list is revealed.

www.bbc.com

 

[Section 5]

Yes it's all about to go pear shaped for contact sports, like in Scotland players aren't allowed to header the ball before and after matches.

Scottish footballers to be banned from heading ball before and after matches

Clubs also advised to limit heading training after research showing link with brain disease

www.theguardian.com

Or like in the UK where ex rugby players are suing their league over brain injury.

Ex-British & Irish Lions stars join brain injury legal action

Ex-Wales winger Lenny Woodard says people will be "shocked" when the full list is revealed.

www.bbc.com

I think at present you must miss 1 game and a minimum of 12 days before playing again.
It is a wonder the AFL have not changed it to 2 games and 16 days before playing again. Just to keep their legal department and insurer on side.
In 2020 Shaun Smith got an insurance payout of $1.4 million. There will be more, and the AFL needs to up their game or pay the price.

But then again you have some retired players like Nick Riewoldt that said he would take the AFL to court if it stopped him playing in a grand final.

 

[Saucery]

I think at present you must miss 1 game and a minimum of 12 days before playing again.
It is a wonder the AFL have not changed it to 2 games and 16 days before playing again. Just to keep their legal department and insurer on side.
In 2020 Shaun Smith got an insurance payout of $1.4 million. There will be more, and the AFL needs to up their game or pay the price.

But then again you have some retired players like Nick Riewoldt that said he would take the AFL to court if it stopped him playing in a grand final.

Yes but Nick does come out with some absolute bollocks.

 

[Section 5]

A few bits of information on Lions players.
McCluggage is one year younger than Dunkley but has played 14 more games.
Lions have 4 players with 200+ games. Only Lyons (181) and Cameron (176) can join that club in 2023.
The lowest player number available to Darragh Joyce is number 38. He played in 39 for Sandy but that is taken.
Excluding our new draftees, we have 3 players yet to make their debut. Lane, Smith & Blake Coleman
Our tallest player is Henry Smith 206 cm age 20years 4 months.
Our heaviest player is Big O at 108 kg next is Payne at 101 kg.
Zorko takes the shortest player at 175 cm being 3 cm shorter than Neale & McCarthy.
We have 11 players from Queensland with 5 being best 22. Does not include Ashcroft as he is listed as from Sandy Dragons.
Josh Dunkley (ranked 10 overall) leads our tackle count (well sort of) with 140.
Next best is McCluggage (rank 21) with 115 then Neale (rank 23) with 113 & Lyons (rank 24) with 112
Big O ranked 6th in hit outs with 576 only 20 behind Gawn (rank 5). Both well behind Witts with 833

 

[Section 5]

Current or former club captains Sam Docherty (Carlton), Nat Fyfe (Fremantle), Dyson Heppell (Essendon), Scott Pendlebury (Collingwood), Phil Davis (Greater Western Sydney), Jack Ziebell (North Melbourne), Dayne Zorko (Brisbane), Dane Rampe (Sydney), Rory Sloane (Adelaide), Luke Shuey and Shannon Hurn (West Coast) are also among the free agents this year.

​

2023 FULL FREE AGENCY LIST​

Nakia Cockatoo*
Darragh Joyce*
Ryan Lester
Rhys Mathieson
Daniel Rich
Dayne Zorko

Link to full article

Prolific Don, big Roo headline bumper crop of 2023 free agents

A number of big names are potentially up for grabs as more than 100 players qualify as free agents this year

www.afl.com.au

 

[royboy2]

Nothing to worry about this year then

 

[morsie]

Thank you morsie:....but so sorry to hear of your problems with cancer. It's a hideous disease and doesn't care who it strikes. my thoughts to both you and your wife

Thanks MacMum.At the moment my wife is in remission and my doc says he got all of mine early but I am on 3 monthly checks.I had no symptoms and was very lucky.

 

[Section 5]

Could Brisbane come to regret not pursuing Liam Jones?

David King believes the Lions made a huge mistake over summer.

www.sen.com.au

 

[royboy2]

David king believes...

 

[Tom14]

Could Brisbane come to regret not pursuing Liam Jones?

David King believes the Lions made a huge mistake over summer.

www.sen.com.au

Beyond Liam Jones being over 30 and a bit overrated, I think he was pretty much committed to the Dogs by the middle of last year. Not a realistic option at the time where we actually knew that Marcus' concussion might be a long-term issue.

 

[Section 5]

Some early betting odds on round 1 v Port
Port the early favorites and they will be hard to beat in round 1 at home.
However, the last time Port beat the Lions was April 2018 at Adelaide Oval 97-92.

TAB: Port $1.65 Lions $2.25
NEDS: Port $1.62 Lions $2.30
Sports Bet: Port $1.73 Lions $2.12
Ladbrokes: Port $1.62 Lions $2.30