Injury Fraser; here we go...

[Copeland]

The rolled ankle is a ruse. Fraser / Club not seeing eye/eye to ATM.

As Dave would say- source

 

[mdc]

I've got no problem with form being the indicator but to date in 2010, Fraser has been injury free and ordinary.

You've got it all backwards. That Josh Fraser is injured whenever he has one of his rubbish games is an axiomatic truth adopted long ago by the Joshiites. All other ruckman, though, are almost always 100% healthy.

 

[Optimax]

I've got no problem with form being the indicator but to date in 2010, Fraser has been injury free and ordinary.

Same could be said of wood though

3 games this year, clearly fit in all 3, progressively worse in all 3. If fraser was fit (and his last VFL match he owned apparently) he very much would have been in the side this week.

As i said earlier Wood has at least a fortnight to pull his finger out of his ass and find form, he still plays like tripe and gets out rucked and out played by the Hawkins of this world, play one ruck until a fit fraser or wood find form in the seconds.

All well and good to bag fraser for his form, but same goes for wood, he is getting very very close to the end of he's young so give him a free pass chain

 

[mdc]

3 games this year, clearly fit in all 3, progressively worse in all 3.

Bit of a creative description there. The correct one would have been good against Freo, and shit against both Norf and Geelong.

As i said earlier Wood has at least a fortnight to pull his finger out of his ass and find form, he still plays like tripe and gets out rucked and out played by the Hawkins of this world, play one ruck until a fit fraser or wood find form in the seconds.

I actually think this is currently the best option, especially with Jack back. Dawes is a better ruck than Hawkins on what he showed last year, so I'd love to see us experiment considering how bad both no.2's have been this year.

 

[Football God]

I actually think this is currently the best option, especially with Jack back. Dawes is a better ruck than Hawkins on what he showed last year, so I'd love to see us experiment considering how bad both no.2's have been this year.

maybe take Wood out and bring in Leigh Brown?

 

[Old Spice]

I don't know that Josh owned anything though in the game V the Dolphins who got absolutely smashed.

I'll admit I only watched a small portion of the first quarter of that game before I gave up in frustration owing to the streaming quality, but in the first few minutes Fraser got outbodied in the forward line in a marking contest and I think got a soft free.

Anyway, I still maintain this. Fraser is not going to get any better at this stage of his career. What he has showed at AFL level this year has been crap.

Wood has been ordinary also, but I don't think we've seen all he has to offer and I think you can see glimpses, eg. has managed in a couple of games to smash the ball forward 20-30 metres on a few occassions. Has blocked well and got some okay handballs to mids. Not much to go on, but the point is I think he is level with Fraser at present and has more to go in my view. Will he improve, who knows, but we know Josh in 2010 has been no better.

I was not opposed to Dawes in the ruck for this game V Brisbane, especially with Jack involved, but I don't know that it's worth risking an injury to a key forward when we are not deep up there at the moment.

You can say give up the young tag Opti, but he was pushing shit up hill at Brisbane to get games - similar to the ruck ins and outs at Carlton at the moment, several on level pegging - and hasn't had many opportunities to string much together at Collingwood.

Mick's one ruck preference did not help Wood's situation - not to say that was the wrong tactic for the team.

I think it's fortuitous for Wood that Fraser was out of form and is now injured, and he needs to try and work up some even moderate, Hudson or Blake-like, form.

 

[Optimax]

Alot of that is excuse making spicey

as a young ruck he should have Been expected to play alot of reserves football in his early years, the issue I have is that he has barely improved as a senior player since 2008, yes he has gotten bigger (not that he really uses it) but performance wise he is still spasmodic, still lazy, still prone to shit house mistakes.

Now I agree Fraser was poor early but reports suggest he was finding or found form in the vfl while wood lost all form in seniors, sadly injury and it's all it is kept wood in the side.

I want the side especially the second ruck chosen on form and fitness, not age, not anything crazy form and fitness.

On the wood is younger so may improve, that's great but we are a flag aspirant this year, can a fit Fraser offer more then wood? Yes then he should play, note I said fit.

Final word from me, wood has a fortnight to improve markedly, max 4 weeks, but his current form is disappointing and infuriating and just because of age (although at 23 that's wearing very thin) doesn't mean he should be saved from truthful criticism

 

[Optimax]

Bit of a creative description there. The correct one would have been good against Freo, and shit against both Norf and Geelong.

personally he was no more then serviceable against freo, average against north and abhorrent against Geelong (how a 202cm 100kg+ monster gets outrucked and comprehensively outplayed by Tom Hawkins astounds me, what's worse is he escapes alot of criticism because no one wants to mention Fraser)

harsh or not, his form has gotten worse since freo, and he is very very lucky to not be dropped

 

[Old Spice]

personally he was no more then serviceable against freo, average against north and abhorrent against Geelong (how a 202cm 100kg+ monster gets outrucked and comprehensively outplayed by Tom Hawkins astounds me, what's worse is he escapes alot of criticism because no one wants to mention Fraser)

harsh or not, his form has gotten worse since freo, and he is very very lucky to not be dropped

Sandiland's stays on the ground 80-90% and Jolly didn't win much there either. However, in that game both rucks knew they wouldn't win but put Sandilands on the back foot quite literally and at least made his taps second rate.

I'd have to watch the Wood duels V Geelong again to be convinced about Hawkin's domination / negation, but let's not forget that Ryder carved Fraser a new one in Anzac Day last year as a blow in.

I think we can all agree on form being the marker in a premiership year, but at this point neither has taken it by the nuts. Wood for me retains the spot by fortune because he's there now, and Fraser has to earn the recall. If both were playing shit at the end of the season (and you'd hope we experiment with other combinations) I would give Fraser the nod.

But until then, Wood holds it for me until Fraser displaces him or some other combo is tried.

 

[doppleganger]

I'd have to watch the Wood duels V Geelong again to be convinced about Hawkin's domination / negation, but let's not forget that Ryder carved Fraser a new one in Anzac Day last year as a blow in.

Wood had 9 HO, Hawkins 8 HO....yet Wood is supposed to be a good tap ruck.

Gee the ANZAC day game is blown out of proportion, Ryder did not get the medal for his ruck work....Fraser and Ryder broke even with 27 HOs each.

Ryder got the medal because he ran, chased, harassed and tackled like a mad man, Ryder had 13 tackles. Ryder got the award for his around the ground work, nothing to do with RUCKwork.

In the Return game Fraser had 35 HOs to Ryders 15 HOs....that is being torn a new one in the ruck.

But until then, Wood holds it for me until Fraser displaces him or some other combo is tried.

Wood gets a game because he is the 'future'.

 

[Old Spice]

Wood had 9 HO, Hawkins 8 HO....yet Wood is supposed to be a good tap ruck.

Gee the ANZAC day game is blown out of proportion, Ryder did not get the medal for his ruck work....Fraser and Ryder broke even with 27 HOs each.

Ryder got the medal because he ran, chased, harassed and tackled like a mad man, Ryder had 13 tackles. Ryder got the award for his around the ground work, nothing to do with RUCKwork.

In the Return game Fraser had 35 HOs to Ryders 15 HOs....that is being torn a new one in the ruck.

Wood gets a game because he is the 'future'.

On Anzac Day this is where stats can let you down. Never mind the quality, feel the width. Ryder outplayed Fraser in that game and I don't remember anyone on this site in the post match review thinking Fraser was jibbed, quite the opposite.

In any case, if we go with this years form, Fraser has been a major dissapointment. If he can turn it around, that's great and I'll be happy, but dealing with the reality of form to date, he does not deserve to walk back into the team. Wood should only be dislodged by good Fraser form in the VFL or some other ruck concoction.

And yes, Wood hopefully is the future.

 

[dswan]

Shae is the future! Wood struggles! Fraser is past it !

Shae Shae Shae

 

[Dundalis]

Alot of that is excuse making spicey

as a young ruck he should have Been expected to play alot of reserves football in his early years, the issue I have is that he has barely improved as a senior player since 2008, yes he has gotten bigger (not that he really uses it) but performance wise he is still spasmodic, still lazy, still prone to shit house mistakes.

Now I agree Fraser was poor early but reports suggest he was finding or found form in the vfl while wood lost all form in seniors, sadly injury and it's all it is kept wood in the side.

I want the side especially the second ruck chosen on form and fitness, not age, not anything crazy form and fitness.

On the wood is younger so may improve, that's great but we are a flag aspirant this year, can a fit Fraser offer more then wood? Yes then he should play, note I said fit.

Final word from me, wood has a fortnight to improve markedly, max 4 weeks, but his current form is disappointing and infuriating and just because of age (although at 23 that's wearing very thin) doesn't mean he should be saved from truthful criticism

So basically his form this year is the only track record usable for Wood? What about the end of last season, when he played some excellent games as first ruck? Or do you conveniently forget that? It was the first time in Wood's career that he got consistent games in a row, playing a high percentage of game time, and surprise surprise, it happened to coincide with his best form for the club.

It's very easy to put the blinkers on and only look at the last game or two when judging younger players if they have had particular poor, or conversely excellent games, Wood has played 3 games this year, come off injury and not had a great deal of game time behind Jolly.

So don't bullshit and say Wood has been mediocre the entire time he has been here, because it's rubbish.

Wood is clearly a confidence player at this stage of his career, and while his decision making is certainly poor when he is lacking in confidence, he showed to me that when he is up, as he was towards the end of last season, he looks a much different player, his decision making was quite sound and he was much more aggressive than he is currently.

As far as Fraser goes, what does he offer anyway? He is a far inferior mark to Wood, is no longer as physical as he used to be (and he was never physical in the first place) and doesn't make any impact on the game whatsoever. Is he a better player than Wood at this stage? On current form yes. Wood on last years form no. The determining factor though is that Fraser has no real impact on our games. Therefore having Wood in, even on current poor form makes no real difference, or the difference is minimal enough to have no real effect on the teams performance. Therefore having Wood in, with the developmental experience for the future makes far more sense. All Fraser would be is a progress stopper. I don't think Fraser has a footballing career past 30. His body will give way by then.

 

[Optimax]

Fraser played quality games last year as well, which as always get conviently forgotten because surely only wood can play well?

I'm stating here and now woods form has been terrible and he needs to pull his finger out, don't care about past year care about now, if we can only look at frasers mediocre efforts in 2010, then same criteria for wood

 

[HotPiesWithSauce]

I doubt Fraser would've been picked this week on a hard Gabba surface, even if fit.

 

[doppleganger]

On Anzac Day this is where stats can let you down. Never mind the quality, feel the width.

I dont follow the feel the width?

Id say that ANZAC day is an example where our 5min capitulation hurt Josh more than anybody..it was a game with no stand-out player.

Ryder did not our RUCK josh, he actually out 'Joshed' him, ie it was his effort around the ground as an extra midfielder that won him the accolades.

In any case Ryder is a pretty good ruck......much better than feckin Hawkins.

Ryder outplayed Fraser in that game and I don't remember anyone on this site in the post match review thinking Fraser was jibbed, quite the opposite.

Say it again, it was his around the ground work which people were raving about. He didn't dominate or own Josh in the actual RUCK contest....and that is Josh' weakest point according to most on this site.

Wood is supposed to be a good tap ruckman, yet he couldn't even beat fecking Hawkins....and Wood offers nothing around the ground, and less physical presence than Josh.

In any case, if we go with this years form, Fraser has been a major dissapointment. If he can turn it around, that's great and I'll be happy, but dealing with the reality of form to date, he does not deserve to walk back into the team. Wood should only be dislodged by good Fraser form in the VFL or some other ruck concoction.

This years form.....Wood's game against Geelong was worse than anything Fraser had done. Even when Josh is poor he still gets the ball 10 times and makes an opponent worry about where he is on the ground.

And yes, Wood hopefully is the future.

This is getting tiring....

Wood is one day older than T.Cloke, yet T.Cloke gets criticised by all and sundry for having a quiet game........why no lenience for Trav, surely he is the future?

Wood is older than Ryder, M.Clark, Leunberger, Renouf, Goldstein, McEvoy, J.White..........tired of the excuses for Wood.

He is 23 and he has shown minimal improvement from when we first drafted him....yet he gets the easiest ride of all players on our list in terms of criticism.

Fraser was 23 in 2005.....by that stage he had played over 100 games and established himself as our number 1 ruck.

I hope Wood proves me wrong, but aint shown much that he will be a big part of our future.....especially as his performances are comparable to Fraser's worst games.

 

[rose jam]

I dont follow the feel the width?

Id say that ANZAC day is an example where our 5min capitulation hurt Josh more than anybody..it was a game with no stand-out player.

Ryder did not our RUCK josh, he actually out 'Joshed' him, ie it was his effort around the ground as an extra midfielder that won him the accolades.
.

In the return game last year Josh tore Ryder and the whole Essendon team a new one when they were at the peak of their form.

Fraser's best is better than Wood's (and Jolly's actually) so let's hope he can get there at the business end and everyone can put away their own agenda's because a fit Josh at finals time is a proven performer.

 

[dswan]

Our rucks suck play shae

 

[Football God]

Our rucks suck play shae

he hurt

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Shae is the future! Wood struggles! Fraser is past it !

Shae Shae Shae

On a related note, I've heard Jarrod Witts is now stretching the tape to 207cms.