Rules Free kicks and interpretation

[Burro]

The AFL are just another company selling a product. They have no interest in Geelong being successful. It is all about how they can expand. This is why Mumford can charge a player and remove him from the game and escape without even a mention in the MRP report. The AFL see the Victorian marketplace as being saturated....no more supporters to get...the money is in western sydney and qld the greatly untapped markets. Hawthorn has only had the AFL boost because they did not want them to go bankrupt and destabilise the melb supporter base....the same reason they tried their best to get essendon off the hook. There may not be a conspiracy....maybe a contrivance is a better description. The fantasy that we are all in is to think that every team has an equal chance.

 

[Burro]

Remember that the squeaky wheel gets the oil.....speak up and complain...there is no reason not to.

Fools said I, you do not know
Silence like a cancer grows.

-Simon and Garfunkle "Sounds of silence"

 

[David the Cat]

While I rarely blame umpires for losses, I did feel watching the game, that we didn't get (m)any 50/50 decisions.

Don't get me started on Stevic though....

 

[Burro]

The AFL have a plan and I'must not sure Gee long is part of it. If we do well it will be against the flow. Only 2 weeks in and already there lots of inconsistencies.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

We may have been a bit unlucky against GWS, but this conspiracy shit belongs on the Hawthorn board.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

I try my best not to be one eyed when watching the Cats play .....

I have never tried that. What's it like?

 

[Burro]

I have never tried that. What's it like?

Very hard......50/50 should always be in our favour and it is amazing how many free we don't get......The thing is that I know that is the way i want to see it....so I can be objective and there are occasions when I say ...we got away with that. But on balance we don't we an even spread of good and bad...it just does not happen.

 

[Burro]

We may have been a bit unlucky against GWS, but this conspiracy shit belongs on the Hawthorn board.

You make your own luck but the umps can certainly make it all bad luck. There is no more conspiracy in the AFL than there is at McDonalds....putting fries in a sugar bath before they cooked. They are not trying to get people hooked on sugar just selling more fries.

 

[Willo_]

Scott on 360 last night was asked about the free kick differential and said it is a problem for us and we are putting a lot of work into it.. but there are no patterns or certain frees we give away more than others.

He clearly wasn't happy with the umpiring on the weekend and mentioned that we only got 10 frees, then he stopped himself I think said we needed to be better

 

[Burro]

Scott on 360 last night was asked about the free kick differential and said it is a problem for us and we are putting a lot of work into it.. but there are no patterns or certain frees we give away more than others.

He clearly wasn't happy with the umpiring on the weekend and mentioned that we only got 10 frees, then he stopped himself I think said we needed to be better

I don't think you need to be a Geelong supporter to see that there is something wrong with the umpiring in Geelong games. Stevic comes to mind. I hope GFC are being very strong with the AFL behind the scenes and Scott should get a pat on the back.

 

[STP18]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/geelongs-chris-scott-admits-a-problem-20160404-gnyb97.html

Geelong coach Chris Scott has conceded the Cats are "bad" when it comes to free kicks, and what's worse, he doesn't know the cause of his side's malaise.

The Cats have conceded 17 more free kicks than they have won so far in 2016, leaving them last in the AFL for free kick differential.

Scott confirmed on Monday night that Geelong had sought clarity from the league's umpiring department about the reasons for the issue, but remains none the wiser. "We've got a problem," Scott told Fox Footy.



Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-a-problem-20160404-gnyb97.html#ixzz44uK00kkb
Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

 

[SJ]

I don't think you need to be a Geelong supporter to see that there is something wrong with the umpiring in Geelong games. Stevic comes to mind. I hope GFC are being very strong with the AFL behind the scenes and Scott should get a pat on the back.

Most supporters from every team reckon they get a harsh run with the umpires most of the time.

Think about that for a while and figure out what do you reckon could actually be the explanation.

 

[FredLeDeux]

(1) Most supporters from every team reckon they get a harsh run with the umpires most of the time.

(2) Think about that for a while and figure out what do you reckon could actually be the explanation.

(1) Three extremely broad generalisations, each or all of which might or not be correct.

(2) Even assuming all of the generalisations are correct, there may be no such thing as "the explanation".

 

[SJ]

(1) Three extremely broad generalisations, each or all of which might or not be correct.

(2) Even assuming all of the generalisations are correct, there may be no such thing as "the explanation".

They are all correct.

How many neutral games have you been to? I would have been to at least 50. Generally you hear the supporters of both teams walking out at the breaks thinking that they have been on the wrong side of the umpires. As a neutral you almost always think the game has been umpired fairly.

You will find thread after thread on every BigFooty club board, and post after post in every club game day thread, discussing how 'there is something wrong with the umpiring in [our club's] games'.

They can't all be right.

 

[Wojcinski]

They are all correct.

How many neutral games have you been to? I would have been to at least 50. Generally you hear the supporters of both teams walking out at the breaks thinking that they have been on the wrong side of the umpires. As a neutral you almost always think the game has been umpired fairly.

You will find thread after thread on every BigFooty club board, and post after post in every club game day thread, discussing how 'there is something wrong with the umpiring in [our club's] games'.

They can't all be right.

I'm with you, I think the only time I really find it hard to take is game changing/very obvious decisions. The last time I felt that way was the Shannon Burns goal vs Collingwood in late 2010 season, called a point for over the line despite replays showing him about a meter back of the line. We were up about 12 points having kicked about 6 in a row and I felt that would have deflated the pies, they ended up coming back and winning the game.

I felt a little like that this week with the Hendo no mark and the call on Lappin, I think that's what sets supporters off because then you check the free kick count and realise they've had 13 more than your mob and the snowball rolls from there.

 

[Partridge]

They are all correct.

How many neutral games have you been to? I would have been to at least 50. Generally you hear the supporters of both teams walking out at the breaks thinking that they have been on the wrong side of the umpires. As a neutral you almost always think the game has been umpired fairly.

You will find thread after thread on every BigFooty club board, and post after post in every club game day thread, discussing how 'there is something wrong with the umpiring in [our club's] games'.

They can't all be right.

I try hard to not even notice the umpires now, and certainly to never mention them or blame them when things don't go our way. I can't recall a single Geelong match ever where umpiring cost us the result.

It might make us feel better to blame the umpires for poor results, but it doesn't make them true.

 

[FredLeDeux]

They are all correct.

How many neutral games have you been to? I would have been to at least 50. Generally you hear the supporters of both teams walking out at the breaks thinking that they have been on the wrong side of the umpires. As a neutral you almost always think the game has been umpired fairly.

You will find thread after thread on every BigFooty club board, and post after post in every club game day thread, discussing how 'there is something wrong with the umpiring in [our club's] games'.

They can't all be right.

I'm not going to argue with this any further.
All it amounts to is the same old furphy that if both sides think there is bias against them (whether it be political reporting, football umpiring, whatever), then that is proof that there is no bias.
Logically, it's complete and utter rubbish.

 

[barmy44]

I'm not going to argue with this any further.
All it amounts to is the same old furphy that if both sides think there is bias against them (whether it be political reporting, football umpiring, whatever), then that is proof that there is no bias.
Logically, it's complete and utter rubbish.

it doesnt prove that there is no bias, but from what i can see that was never the claim. everything a human does will be infected with bias of some sort or another. umpires are no different.

it does however show that the average football supporter is a horribly impartial judge of anything to do with their team. the most obvious example would be a simple team swap: replace our starting 22 with that of hawthorns, and the views on hodge, mitchell, puopolo, selwood, bartel, mackie on here would be a complete inverse. exactly the same 'input', completely reversed 'output'. guaranteed mitchell wouldnt be generally perceived as a 'thug sniper' on this board if he had played his career in the hoops.

the blind tribalism supporters display is, on the whole, infuriating. for a geelong supporter to say 'im completely impartial, and it is plainly obvious that geelong are the worst treated club in the AFL' should simply be given very limited weight.

beyond that - claims of a targeted AFL conspiracy go well beyond issues of 'limited weight', and land well within the realms of 'delusion'.

 

[SJ]

I'm not going to argue with this any further.
All it amounts to is the same old furphy that if both sides think there is bias against them (whether it be political reporting, football umpiring, whatever), then that is proof that there is no bias.
Logically, it's complete and utter rubbish.

And it's complete and utter rubbish to think there is a systemic bias because one team averages two or three free kicks per game fewer than its opponents.

 

[FredLeDeux]

And it's complete and utter rubbish to think there is a systemic bias because one team averages two or three free kicks per game fewer than its opponents.

I never at any stage commented on or suggested that there was any systemic bias - or, indeed, any bias at all.

 

[FredLeDeux]

it doesnt prove that there is no bias, but from what i can see that was never the claim. everything a human does will be infected with bias of some sort or another. umpires are no different.

it does however show that the average football supporter is a horribly impartial judge of anything to do with their team. the most obvious example would be a simple team swap: replace our starting 22 with that of hawthorns, and the views on hodge, mitchell, puopolo, selwood, bartel, mackie on here would be a complete inverse. exactly the same 'input', completely reversed 'output'. guaranteed mitchell wouldnt be generally perceived as a 'thug sniper' on this board if he had played his career in the hoops.

the blind tribalism supporters display is, on the whole, infuriating. for a geelong supporter to say 'im completely impartial, and it is plainly obvious that geelong are the worst treated club in the AFL' should simply be given very limited weight.

beyond that - claims of a targeted AFL conspiracy go well beyond issues of 'limited weight', and land well within the realms of 'delusion'.

It was exactly the claim.

 

[barmy44]

It was exactly the claim.

i read SJs claim as 'supporters from all clubs commonly state bias against, and it is a practical impossibility for them all to be correct'. no claim that bias for or against was never actually present.

either way, not really worth butting heads over. i could easily have misinterpreted SJs intended point/claim.

 

[numbwombat]

i read SJs claim as 'supporters from all clubs commonly state bias against, and it is a practical impossibility for them all to be correct'. no claim that bias for or against was never actually present.

either way, not really worth butting heads over. i could easily have misinterpreted SJs intended point/claim.

i think fred's point is that an irregularity can't be outright dismissed on the grounds that people see a bias against their own team. that still leaves room for healthy scepticism about some nefarious anti-geelong conspiracy.

for what it's worth, with the exception of freo, who are thugs imho, the 2015 rankings for contested possessions are fairly close to an inversion of the rankings for frees against -
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_rankings?year=2015&type=TA&sby=23&advv=Y
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_rankings?year=2015&type=TA&sby=9

 

[barmy44]

i think fred's point is that an irregularity can't be outright dismissed on the grounds that people see a bias against their own team. that still leaves room for healthy scepticism about some nefarious anti-geelong conspiracy.

for what it's worth, with the exception of freo, who are thugs imho, the 2015 rankings for contested possessions are fairly close to an inversion of the rankings for frees against -
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_rankings?year=2015&type=TA&sby=23&advv=Y
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_rankings?year=2015&type=TA&sby=9

umpiring bias is just not something that could: 1) either actually be determined; or 2) be rationally argued to a point of determination.

umpiring bias would be present, and would even be fluid throughout a game. how a player or coach interacts with an umpire during a game/season/career will impact on the umpires performance and decision, either actively or passively. hell, an event from an umpires childhood they dont even remember could reveal itself in a decision in the 4th quarter of a tight game 28 years after the fact, completely unintentionally. were all human, and umpires are, perhaps surprisingly, no different. we all have ingrained bias in virtually every action we take.

put simply, though - claims made in this thread by a few that, essentially, 'i am capable of viewing things objectively, and objectively my team is the worst treated team in the AFL' should not be taken on face value. i think that is the general point. bias is unavoidable, and certainly not cancelled out because 'we all see it'.

as far as umpiring irregularities go, though, my thought is that anyone who uses a free kick differential as a means of attacking umpiring quality is misled. a game could be 22-2 in terms of free kicks, and be the most perfectly unbiased umpiring performance in history. the chances are slight, but its possible. similarly, the count could be 12-12 and be horrendously biased in favour of one team, whether intentional or not.

but i think the point that SJ has been making, and ive tried to make myself a few times in here, is that a few of the claims in this thread can only really legitimately be greeted with a roll of the eyes and a chuckle. footy supporters are ruled by tribalism, and love is blind.

anyway, i fully accept that i could have misread comments in this thread, and i could be totally off the mark. i never come online seeking or wanting arguments with strangers.

it is definitely possible that geelong are in fact the team who regularly receive the most unfavourable biases from the umpiring fraternity.

 

[Burro]

Most supporters from every team reckon they get a harsh run with the umpires most of the time.

Think about that for a while and figure out what do you reckon could actually be the explanation.

That seems a very simplistic way of looking at it. Could you please explain why the Mumford Duncan hit was not even mentioned in the MRP report? Obviously that tackle is now the gold standard for all teams..just using your logic.