Coach Fremantle: where to now after Lyon?

catscollector

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losing Hogan is a massive loss. They desperately need that 6ft'5 power forward as McCarthy is a little undersized to play that role.
The other one which is stating the obvious is the loss of Lachie Neale.
Having said all that, they are still in the hunt for the finals and they are going to beat some teams they are heavy underdogs in.
 

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Freomaniac

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I agree with you that Lyon deserves credit for taking 2 historically s**t teams to Grand Finals. The results speak for themselves.

But some scrutiny should be coming his way right now given RECENT results and the question is has the game passed him by?

A few years ago he brought in guys like Guerra and Hale from Hawthorn and attempted to 'modernise' Freo's gameplan. His defensive game plan wasn't cutting it anymore and he knew it. Doesn't help his style that the AFL make rule changes to speed the game up.

However since then, they have finished 16th, 14th & 14th.

They looked good at the start of this year, won some tight games, but the wheels have fallen off. Losing a gun mid like Neale in his age bracket should probably warrant more scrutiny...he didn't even move back to his home state. If they lose Brad Hill & Langdon this year, plus the retirement of Mundy, Freo's midfield will be Fyfe and kids which looks bleak for 2020.

A few questionable decisions (outside his inappropriate sexual comment incident) is rushing injured players back into the team too early where they perform poorly and handing Bennell another contract this year. He also doesn't seem to make any effective changes to adapt in-game.
Bwahahahaha A carlton fan bagging out another team of all supporters. I aint deluded on where freo are now. But I take pride freo didnt have priority picks or 3 number 1 picks in a row for help. I got something and its called pride.

We 1st off congrats on the win over Freo in Perth. Did just enough to beat us.

Ironic the Carlton 2002 side and Crows 2012 side got done for salary cap breaches. Carlton are still struggling to this day. Crows despite losing their 1st and 2nd rounders for 2012 and 2013 drafts, still made a grand final in 2017.

I personally couldnt care less if your side has won 16 flags to be honest. But if I was given a spare $50 note on who is likely to make finals in 2-3 years time, my money is on freo.

Again, Bag freo all you want. Tell me the last time Ross Lyon had pick 1 to work with at the Saints or Freo.
 

Freomaniac

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losing Hogan is a massive loss. They desperately need that 6ft'5 power forward as McCarthy is a little undersized to play that role.
The other one which is stating the obvious is the loss of Lachie Neale.
Having said all that, they are still in the hunt for the finals and they are going to beat some teams they are heavy underdogs in.
Hogan is a loss to a Degree....

Yet we kicked 21 goals vs North in round 1 when Hogan is suspended.

Saying that, we had depth of KPFs.

Hogan is a 195 cm Key forward

Lobb is a 205 cm Forward/Ruckman. Plays FF as a 2nd ruck

Brennan Cox is ok. Was drafted as a Key defender but is a Harry taylor type swingman that can play forward.

Matt Tarberner is like the John Butcher of the side: 197 cm and 90-95kg. Tall and skinny. gets plenty of the ball. Good marker but 50-50 on set shots.

Cam McCarthy I wouldnt call a key forward but can play CHF as a 2nd tall and can thrive if Hogan or Lobb is double teamed.

Sad thing is Hogan, Cox, Tabs are injured. Lobb just got back from injury too.

Hell we Still got shane Kersten. He wasnt bad in 2017. Hell if we wasnt injuried, he could of kicked goals as a 2nd or 3rd tall.

I dont think the loss of Lachie Neale isnt as bad as some people make out. Freo had a lot of mids. I was more than happy to trade a gun mid in Neale to get a need which was a proven key forward in Jesse Hogan.
 

catscollector

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Hogan is a loss to a Degree....

Yet we kicked 21 goals vs North in round 1 when Hogan is suspended.

Saying that, we had depth of KPFs.

Hogan is a 195 cm Key forward

Lobb is a 205 cm Forward/Ruckman. Plays FF as a 2nd ruck

Brennan Cox is ok. Was drafted as a Key defender but is a Harry taylor type swingman that can play forward.

Matt Tarberner is like the John Butcher of the side: 197 cm and 90-95kg. Tall and skinny. gets plenty of the ball. Good marker but 50-50 on set shots.

Cam McCarthy I wouldnt call a key forward but can play CHF as a 2nd tall and can thrive if Hogan or Lobb is double teamed.

Sad thing is Hogan, Cox, Tabs are injured. Lobb just got back from injury too.

Hell we Still got shane Kersten. He wasnt bad in 2017. Hell if we wasnt injuried, he could of kicked goals as a 2nd or 3rd tall.

I dont think the loss of Lachie Neale isnt as bad as some people make out. Freo had a lot of mids. I was more than happy to trade a gun mid in Neale to get a need which was a proven key forward in Jesse Hogan.
Yep good points.
I don't know, it just feels like this current Freo team could be capable of so much more.
I have always been a big supporter of Ross Lyon. He's a very good coach but perhaps he is better suited to managing teams on the cusp of success as opposed to managing teams who have a bevvy of youth.
If Fremantle had a coach who was not so obsessed with the defensive side of the game, they could be a seriously great to watch as they have a great blend of inside and outside runners with exceptional x-factor qualities.
 

Freomaniac

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Think I read it best on another thread with the following.
I read your thread...

Freo finish 14th with 8 wins last season. when we had no forward line or if we did, have the worst backline in the history of the AFL, worse than fitzroy of 1996 and GWS of 2012.

You said we put all our future on our forward line while gutting the midfield and Neglecting the back line.

You can have the best midfield in the comp, but if you dont have forwards to kick goals, you aint winning too many games.

1st off Lachie Neale wanted to leave, we made the best of a bad situation. Brisbane offered up a 1st and 2nd rounder. we used those picks to get Hogan. We essentially traded our 2nd best mid for a gun key forward in Hogan, who fully fit, is easily our best experienced KPF. We also got Rory Lobb in Another trade too

But yeah I am sure 100 goal a season KPFs are taken in the Rookie draft every year. Bastardization of Bigfooty at its best.

Now you say Ross Lyon is doing everything to save his Job by trading Freos future away? Trading your future is like trading picks 11, 27 and 43 for Josh Carr in 2004 or trading picks 3 and 19 for des Headland in 2002.

Did freo traded their future in the Harley Bennell trade(s). Um no they didnt. They traded Picks 16 and 34 for Bennell and pick 22. They then wanted pick 34 back and handed the suns pick 61. Freo traded their 2016 2nd rounder which was sadly pick 21 and pick 61.

I dont know who the suns got with their picks but I know who freo got with theirs. Pick 22 ended up as darcy tucker, pick 34 was Harley balic which sadly didnt end well and that pick was traded to get tom north. Pick 55 was sam collins who ironicall went to the suns.

Again...... What has he done to trade freos Future away? I am not being Ignorant, this is a serious question.

People on here said that freo Had an Ageing squad last year. Define an ageing squad? We were a team with an Ageing squad as we had 6 blokes aged 30 or over in Lee Spurr, Michael Johnson, Danyle Pearce, Aaron Sandilands, Hayden Ballantyne and David Mundy.

I have posted this before and will post this Again, Freo had an ageing squad in 2008. It was so old, they only had 6-7 guys aged 23 or under. They had Rhys Palmer, Clayton Hinkley, Chris Mayne, Marcus drum, Carrick Ibbotson, Robert warnock and my Personal Favourite in Brock "Lesnar" O brien.

Those are 2 examples of Ageing squads.

I also found that funny you said theres a void of 21-22 year olds. That is friggin Hilarious. Go look at what freo picked up in 2016 and 2017 drafts.

In 2016 we got Logue, Darcy, Cox, Ryan. Plus Duman and Nyhuis as rookies.

In 2017, we got Cerra, Crowden, Brayshaw, Banfield, Dixon, Giro and Tom North
 

Freomaniac

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Yep good points.
I don't know, it just feels like this current Freo team could be capable of so much more.
I have always been a big supporter of Ross Lyon. He's a very good coach but perhaps he is better suited to managing teams on the cusp of success as opposed to managing teams who have a bevvy of youth.
If Fremantle had a coach who was not so obsessed with the defensive side of the game, they could be a seriously great to watch as they have a great blend of inside and outside runners with exceptional x-factor qualities.
the funny thing is that Ross Lyon was only defensive from 2012-15 because he didnt have the fire power compared to the hawks at that point.

This year he can play attacking footy if he has the tools. The North game proved it, so did the GWS game and Port game too.
 

Quokka

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This is just so spot on its almost painful.

In the last few years Fremantle have traded for Nathan Wilson (26) Matera (27) Colyer (27), Lobb (26) Conca (26) Hogan (24)

Those are the kind of players a team might recruit if they think their flag window is opening and they need a bit of extra class to put them into contention.

But at the same time they've sent Neale and Weller east for high draft picks.

So what on earth are they doing?

If Freo are a young squad in full rebuild mode why are they clogging their list with guys who will be getting past it when Darcy, Brayshaw and Cerra are in their prime? Shouldn't those spots be going to genuine 19-22 youth in a quest to get them to the magic 100 game figure as quick as possible.

There is only one real answer and it's the obvious one - those recruits are there to inflate freos ladder position and give the illusion that ross knows what hes doing and the rebuild is on track, only to be conveniently forgotten when the huge losses occur- then suddenly freo are sending kids out to play apparently.

Every day Ross Lyon amazes me more, he is wasted as a football coach when he could be flogging dodgy roof repairs to unsuspecting pensioners.

Let's have a more balanced look at it cause a couple of them were filling a need everyone knew Fremantle has had for a decade or so, and even then Freo worked hard not to sell the farm, the rest cost peanuts.

Wilson (24 when traded), Cost: 2nd rounder + 57 --> 71 and Wilson.
Dropping our 2nd rounders are starting to hurt, and have been our biggest weakness, but you're reaching to say Wilson isn't looking like being worth one.

Matera (25 when traded), Cost: a third rounder
Cost bugger all wanting to come home and is showing this year that there might be at least a little value in him... he's better than playing Ballantyne and has had some stand out games this year (25.15 from 13 games).

Colyer (27 when traded) Cost: a fourth rounder
Could of done without this one but it's a free hit and seeing as he's played 5 WAFL games to 9 AFL at least Lyon is showing he's willing to drop players.

Lobb (25 when traded) Cost: 11 + 19 --> Lobb, 14, 43, 47
Worth every cent so far, really needed an option as a ruck/forward and Lobb has shown he can handle himself well in the ruck, would be second in line to only a fit Darcy now, coming back from injury will need time to see if he can hold his own in the forwards but he's no worse than our other options.

Conca (26 when traded) Cost: Free Agency
Another I could of done without but its Free agency, lost nothing but a younger 4th rounder, easy to say that the younger player is better (and it'd have been my choice) but we don't just need young players we need quality and failing that a little maturity to protect the kids.

Hogan (23 when traded) Cost: 6 + 23 --> Hogan + 65
If we didn't take Hogan when he finally wanted home Fremantle would never hear the end of it but even then they argued for some value and didn't cave for two high first rounders. There's risk but it's the right type of risk for a player that could be an absolute key player.

We also traded in Bradley Hill (24 when traded) who has been fantastic for us and a bargain at a second rounder (Hawthorn being kind for the go home factor) but there is nothing in any of this that looks like a club trading its future to sell anything now, playing a full team of kids has been shown to be a very bad idea and Freo are still playing a lot of kids, every week, especially as injury means we are still waiting to see our first and second round picks from the last draft in Sturt and Valente.

Fremantle have consistently kept to keeping their first rounders and have kept about half of their second rounders, that's brought in a good spread of talent and ages, it's what we are currently doing with it (and maybe even if retain it) that has me concerned.
 

master bate

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Hogan is a loss to a Degree....

Yet we kicked 21 goals vs North in round 1 when Hogan is suspended.

Saying that, we had depth of KPFs.

Hogan is a 195 cm Key forward

Lobb is a 205 cm Forward/Ruckman. Plays FF as a 2nd ruck

Brennan Cox is ok. Was drafted as a Key defender but is a Harry taylor type swingman that can play forward.

Matt Tarberner is like the John Butcher of the side: 197 cm and 90-95kg. Tall and skinny. gets plenty of the ball. Good marker but 50-50 on set shots.

Cam McCarthy I wouldnt call a key forward but can play CHF as a 2nd tall and can thrive if Hogan or Lobb is double teamed.

Sad thing is Hogan, Cox, Tabs are injured. Lobb just got back from injury too.

Hell we Still got shane Kersten. He wasnt bad in 2017. Hell if we wasnt injuried, he could of kicked goals as a 2nd or 3rd tall.

I dont think the loss of Lachie Neale isnt as bad as some people make out. Freo had a lot of mids. I was more than happy to trade a gun mid in Neale to get a need which was a proven key forward in Jesse Hogan.
Except Hogan isn't proven as a reliable key forward who can stand up against good teams and Freo don't have a lot of mids, not in the short term anyway. Compounding that is trading out of the other top 6 pick Freo had for multiple picks and Lobb who is a handy player but neither a number 1 forward nor a number 1 ruck. I do like trading a top pick for multiple assets but the top picks are also the best chance of getting future stars.

Losing Neale is a bit like an NBA trade where a superstar walks out and a team gets a big haul of draft picks that looks great but often amounts to nothing. The counter that is Neale to me was always a bit below the absolute elite mids but he's having a great season. Last years trade period puts a lot of pressure on Cerra and Brayshaw being A grade mids of the future because adding the talls took away from chances to add more high end ball winners.

The Freo outside mids are excellent which is why Freo have played a nice spreading game and served it up to top teams in Collingwood and GWS. Ross deserves a lot of credit for Freo's best footy this year looking very good and sound. Backline intercepts, spread and skill, forward line pressure, there was a lot to like.

But the engine room of any side is the centre square and that's Fyfe, Mundy who at nearly 34 should be playing on a flank, Walters who should be 50/50 forward and midfield, Conca - an acceptable tagger - and then kids, none of which are really ready to play full time midfield.

I was impressed at the start of the season how far Mundy turned back the clock, how good Walters was playing as a midfielder and even that Conca was doing his job very well, but at the same time I'm not surprised if there's a drop off there.

Walters can't be in 2 places at once, Mundy isn't going to perform week in week out at his age and games so really the pressure on Fyfe is huge. Being so reliant on one prime midfielder is a pretty good reason why a team that's looked good at times this year might slide in the last few months of the season.
 

Vintage

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Unbelievable that not one of the footy shows yesterday call out their performance on Saturday.
Yes, it was a bad loss, but given where the team is at, and the fact that the score line would have looked slightly less bad if even a few of those gazillion points had been goals, it wasn’t too different to a lot of losses most weeks:
Adelaide 44 to port 101
Pies 37 to north 81
Tigers conceding 5 goals in 15 minutes to lose to Adelaide, who had lost Murphy and Talia early in game
Tigers 37 to Geelong 104 (the week earlier)
Eagles conceding 12 goals to 3 to the 15th placed swans to lose by 45 points in round 12

And that’s just in the last month. All of those losing teams had bad losses, and they’re all supposedly much better teams than freo in 2019.
 

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Freomaniac

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Except Hogan isn't proven as a reliable key forward who can stand up against good teams and Freo don't have a lot of mids, not in the short term anyway. Compounding that is trading out of the other top 6 pick Freo had for multiple picks and Lobb who is a handy player but neither a number 1 forward nor a number 1 ruck. I do like trading a top pick for multiple assets but the top picks are also the best chance of getting future stars.

Losing Neale is a bit like an NBA trade where a superstar walks out and a team gets a big haul of draft picks that looks great but often amounts to nothing. The counter that is Neale to me was always a bit below the absolute elite mids but he's having a great season. Last years trade period puts a lot of pressure on Cerra and Brayshaw being A grade mids of the future because adding the talls took away from chances to add more high end ball winners.

The Freo outside mids are excellent which is why Freo have played a nice spreading game and served it up to top teams in Collingwood and GWS. Ross deserves a lot of credit for Freo's best footy this year looking very good and sound. Backline intercepts, spread and skill, forward line pressure, there was a lot to like.

But the engine room of any side is the centre square and that's Fyfe, Mundy who at nearly 34 should be playing on a flank, Walters who should be 50/50 forward and midfield, Conca - an acceptable tagger - and then kids, none of which are really ready to play full time midfield.

I was impressed at the start of the season how far Mundy turned back the clock, how good Walters was playing as a midfielder and even that Conca was doing his job very well, but at the same time I'm not surprised if there's a drop off there.

Walters can't be in 2 places at once, Mundy isn't going to perform week in week out at his age and games so really the pressure on Fyfe is huge. Being so reliant on one prime midfielder is a pretty good reason why a team that's looked good at times this year might slide in the last few months of the season.
Hogan had some good games this year. kicked 3 goals vs GWS.

I mean Cam McCarthy has kicked 15 goals from 8 games. He had kicked 5 vs North and 4 vs Carlton.

I dont mind the NBA comparison. Again freo made the most of it and got a good deal in the End. It also helped us with a need in getting Hogan. NBA is a totally different best to AFL. I know about Max contracts. Yeah NBA max contracts are 4 year deals at 25% of the cap. Personally, it should be no more than 20%. 2 guys having 40% of the cap isnt bad if the cap is 100 million dollars. At least theres 60 million left for the remaning 10-15 guys on the roster.

You can debate about trading away top 5 picks. You can debate it in a good way or bad way. As I said. Happy trading picks 5 and 41 whichs is an early 1st and 3rd for picks 10, 28 and 46, a mid 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

the Port trade worked out well. Traded picks 5 and 2019 3rd rounder for picks 11, 23, 30 amd 49. Then traded picks 11 and 23 to GWS for pick 14 and Rory lobb.

Drafting can be a lottery. In 2009 we used pick 4 on Anthony Morabito and pick 20 on fyfe.

Freo in 2007 used their pick 7 to get Rhys Palmer, Dangerfield was pick 10.


Im glad we got conca as a free agent, he was the guy to fill matt deboers spot as a mid that does the dirty work despite averaing 15 disposals a game.

you can debate that a top 5 pick can increase your chances of getting a gun player. there has been guys taken at picks 10-20 and become All Australians too.
 

Hawk_francais

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In my opinion: This would be a very smart time for Freo to shake Ross' hand and say "thanks for everything, we're going with Blake Caracella/Rob Harvey/Paul Roos". I see sacking him as their biggest hope for retaining Stephen Hill, therefore encouraging Bradley to see out his contract, whilst potentially attracting Tim Kelly and/or Stephen Coniglio. In their favour they have cap space, draft picks and the go-home factor which should have them dreaming about all four, but with Ross' ability to scare the children there is serious possibility they'll have none next year.

A midfield of both Hills, Fyfe, Kelly and Coniglio (not to mention Langdon, Brayshaw and other players developing nicely), a backline that's already much more than solid, and a dynamic forward line of Hogan, Lobb, Matera, McCarthy, Cerra... with Mundy and Walters floating between mid/attack. It would be one of the best and youngest teams in the comp. They have great key position depth, lots of talented youngsters waiting for an opportunity. I think they would easily attract another quality coach. I thought Adelaide were tough on Sanderson, but ultimately they attracted Phil Walsh who instantly brought the group together to play much better footy.

How do Freo supporters feel on this? Is a new face and voice what this group needs, or is this a Hardwick/Buckley situation where next year things are expected to click for no apparent reason?
 

Magnum27

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I think most West Coast supporters would be on the "remain" side.

I'm happy for him to stay, no matter how many stupid things our club does from time to time, their is always Freo and their constant ineptness which will keep us away from the back pages :), whilst he is coach.
 

TheShardMan

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How do Freo supporters feel on this?
Thing with Ross is i could maybe accept his arrogant, dismissive, brattish manner if he had our team playing a good brand of footy.

If he cant do that, i could maybe accept a ugly, defensive, unimaginative brand of footy so long as we get results.

I'm one who feels we underachieved even in his so called succesful years 12-15. He inherited a decent list from Harvey and took us to finals but I never ever thought we were good enough to win with his style of footy. Since then we've finished 16th, 14th, 14th. Laughable. A good coach does not let his team spiral into uncompetitiveness. He can't blame the list for those years because those recruits were under his watch. He's a coach that coaches for the moment(provided someone else has already built a list for him), and i just don't think he has our long term interests at heart. It's all about him.

His sexual harrasment payoff to a ex staff member last year should have been the nail in his coffin. But no, lol. Still there and still has his merry band of supporters. If they stuck with him through that, the last 2 weeks, loss at home to Carlton(without Cripps, Curnow) and a near 100 point thumping from that mob, his supporters will find excuses. They'll brush it off while the rest of the comp laughs at how we're stuck with this s**tstain.
 

The wily weagle

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I think it's far more interesting to view the degree of leverage Ross seems to have over the Fremantle board.

For a guy who had won nothing, and who has been embroiled in a groping scandal, it's actually quite remarkable.

And when he says he will be coaching the club next year, I actually believe him.

I just don't quite know why the Fremantle hierarchy seems to put so much faith in him when he has all of nothing to show for it.
 

woosha24

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And when he says he will be coaching the club next year, I actually believe him.
This is the bit that is currently baffling me. A couch shouldn't be coming out in a press conference and saying "yeah Im def here next year" without an explicit public statement from the board. Otherwise if he is turfed then not only does he look like an idiot, but it makes it seem like the club cant steer its own ship. If anything it seems like a tactic to force the club's hand into not sacking him.
 

pablo668

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In my opinion: This would be a very smart time for Freo to shake Ross' hand and say "thanks for everything, we're going with Blake Caracella/Rob Harvey/Paul Roos". I see sacking him as their biggest hope for retaining Stephen Hill, therefore encouraging Bradley to see out his contract, whilst potentially attracting Tim Kelly and/or Stephen Coniglio. In their favour they have cap space, draft picks and the go-home factor which should have them dreaming about all four, but with Ross' ability to scare the children there is serious possibility they'll have none next year.

A midfield of both Hills, Fyfe, Kelly and Coniglio (not to mention Langdon, Brayshaw and other players developing nicely), a backline that's already much more than solid, and a dynamic forward line of Hogan, Lobb, Matera, McCarthy, Cerra... with Mundy and Walters floating between mid/attack. It would be one of the best and youngest teams in the comp. They have great key position depth, lots of talented youngsters waiting for an opportunity. I think they would easily attract another quality coach. I thought Adelaide were tough on Sanderson, but ultimately they attracted Phil Walsh who instantly brought the group together to play much better footy.

How do Freo supporters feel on this? Is a new face and voice what this group needs, or is this a Hardwick/Buckley situation where next year things are expected to click for no apparent reason?
I agree with all this, and getting those players in would be awesome.
My honest opinion, and I've said to to everyone who has told me, 'Freo have managed to recruit X player' or' 'Freo's recruiting has been really good' that it's all very nice but good players are wasted on Ross Lyon.
There is really no point to getting good players in if he is the coach. His style, which I really don't think has changed much, isn't about talented players or the often mercurial types we recruit often. It's more about system, set ups and players sticking to their roles.
I have been pilloried in here for this view, and told I'm full of s**t. I didn't stick with it because well.....arguments on the internet are pointless.

I never wanted Ross at the club and have wanted him gone since he joined.
 

Joao

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This is the bit that is currently baffling me. A couch shouldn't be coming out in a press conference and saying "yeah Im def here next year" without an explicit public statement from the board. Otherwise if he is turfed then not only does he look like an idiot, but it makes it seem like the club cant steer its own ship. If anything it seems like a tactic to force the club's hand into not sacking him.
I don't think a statement from the coach would stop any club sacking him if they thought it was warranted.

I think the much more likely reason is he already has assurances that he will be here next year from the club. Whether anyone here agrees with that is irrelevant if that is the case.
 

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Let's have a more balanced look at it cause a couple of them were filling a need everyone knew Fremantle has had for a decade or so, and even then Freo worked hard not to sell the farm, the rest cost peanuts.

Wilson (24 when traded), Cost: 2nd rounder + 57 --> 71 and Wilson.
Dropping our 2nd rounders are starting to hurt, and have been our biggest weakness, but you're reaching to say Wilson isn't looking like being worth one.

Matera (25 when traded), Cost: a third rounder
Cost bugger all wanting to come home and is showing this year that there might be at least a little value in him... he's better than playing Ballantyne and has had some stand out games this year (25.15 from 13 games).

Colyer (27 when traded) Cost: a fourth rounder
Could of done without this one but it's a free hit and seeing as he's played 5 WAFL games to 9 AFL at least Lyon is showing he's willing to drop players.

Lobb (25 when traded) Cost: 11 + 19 --> Lobb, 14, 43, 47
Worth every cent so far, really needed an option as a ruck/forward and Lobb has shown he can handle himself well in the ruck, would be second in line to only a fit Darcy now, coming back from injury will need time to see if he can hold his own in the forwards but he's no worse than our other options.

Conca (26 when traded) Cost: Free Agency
Another I could of done without but its Free agency, lost nothing but a younger 4th rounder, easy to say that the younger player is better (and it'd have been my choice) but we don't just need young players we need quality and failing that a little maturity to protect the kids.

Hogan (23 when traded) Cost: 6 + 23 --> Hogan + 65
If we didn't take Hogan when he finally wanted home Fremantle would never hear the end of it but even then they argued for some value and didn't cave for two high first rounders. There's risk but it's the right type of risk for a player that could be an absolute key player.

We also traded in Bradley Hill (24 when traded) who has been fantastic for us and a bargain at a second rounder (Hawthorn being kind for the go home factor) but there is nothing in any of this that looks like a club trading its future to sell anything now, playing a full team of kids has been shown to be a very bad idea and Freo are still playing a lot of kids, every week, especially as injury means we are still waiting to see our first and second round picks from the last draft in Sturt and Valente.

Fremantle have consistently kept to keeping their first rounders and have kept about half of their second rounders, that's brought in a good spread of talent and ages, it's what we are currently doing with it (and maybe even if retain it) that has me concerned.
Whether viewed in isolation a particular trade is a good deal on paper is a secondary issue.

To do a good rebuild you need to a) draft well, both in terms of quality and quantity, and b) get games into quality kids as quickly as possible.

Bipolar is the perfect description for a coach who simultaneously talks up the need for rebuild and excuses dreadful results because of his inexperienced list, and also trades out draft picks and selects prime aged players who will take games away from draftees. It just makes no sense.
 

woosha24

Premium Platinum
Apr 5, 2015
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Unless you think he wants to be sacked what's so baffling about it then?
Well I'll put it this way: I don't see the coaches of other struggling clubs holding pressers and telling their employer they wont be getting fired before their contract is up.
 

_jrtp09_

Team Captain
May 14, 2014
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I think the defensive conservative approach that coaches have this season has flattered Ross Lyon and Fremantles scoreline a bit this season.I see it at Eagles games this season first quarters are most often tight defensive dour before the side just starts attacking sometime later in the game.I think sides have learmt with Ross to not fight defence with defence in the last few weeks.Think hard times are upon the Lyon style for the rest of the season unless he adapts quickly.
I still sit with my break even 11w 11 L season prediction for Fremant but they might fall a bit short of that imo.
Can’t see Freo with more than 9w by seasons end.

Still, I think he’s had a fair season overall.
 

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
May 3, 2007
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In my opinion: This would be a very smart time for Freo to shake Ross' hand and say "thanks for everything, we're going with Blake Caracella/Rob Harvey/Paul Roos". I see sacking him as their biggest hope for retaining Stephen Hill, therefore encouraging Bradley to see out his contract, whilst potentially attracting Tim Kelly and/or Stephen Coniglio. In their favour they have cap space, draft picks and the go-home factor which should have them dreaming about all four, but with Ross' ability to scare the children there is serious possibility they'll have none next year.

A midfield of both Hills, Fyfe, Kelly and Coniglio (not to mention Langdon, Brayshaw and other players developing nicely), a backline that's already much more than solid, and a dynamic forward line of Hogan, Lobb, Matera, McCarthy, Cerra... with Mundy and Walters floating between mid/attack. It would be one of the best and youngest teams in the comp. They have great key position depth, lots of talented youngsters waiting for an opportunity. I think they would easily attract another quality coach. I thought Adelaide were tough on Sanderson, but ultimately they attracted Phil Walsh who instantly brought the group together to play much better footy.

How do Freo supporters feel on this? Is a new face and voice what this group needs, or is this a Hardwick/Buckley situation where next year things are expected to click for no apparent reason?
You may have some good points here. If he was out of contract this year, Lyon would likely be gone now, unless freo made finals this year.

Saying that If he does get sacked this year, I dont want a fiasco like the saints did with Scott Watters, sacking him just before trade week.

You would Assume freo go after Kelly or Coniglio or both. Freo will have lots of Cap room with Sandi, Bennell, Ballantyne and possibly mundy gone.

The squad has been built slowly over the last 3-4 years. Its way better than the squad we had in 2016. Sure Fyfe and Walters are near the end of their careers but I think freo did the reubuild ok.

The core of young talent is there.

This would be a team Clarkson would do well with obviously.

Again you Look how Richmond won the Flag in 2017. The squad was there. They were just awful in 2016. They made finals from 2013-15, in which you can argue they should of won 1 or 2 finals in that period.

Had everything clicked this season, freo would of made finals easily.

Saying that. I want Lyon to coach next season.
 
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