Freo's trading and drafting

[peppy la pew]

Freo and Bond are notoriously difficult to trade with, they tried to fleece Brisbane for Mitch Clark and got burnt.

Yeah, he is going gangbusters isn't he ?

 

[Purple Suit]

In what parallel universe did Freo miss out on Cloke? He was never leaving Collingwood and was certainly never leaving Victoria.

Exactly, but it was enough to add another 200K / year to his contract so it wasn't a complete waste of time.

 

[Plugger35]

You just worry about the umpires champ.

Has Carlilse fronted the leadership group yet.

Apparently Revolt is vey upset, Jake has given the club a bad image, its Ok to take photo's holding each others **** though.

The sort of mature response I'd expect from Freo supporters, this thread isn't about St Kilda or umpires it's about Freo's poor trading and drafting.

It is bullshit. But removing established KPFs who we made an offer to and they refused. How many drafted KPFs did we miss out on that would, right now, be making a difference for us? Good KPFs don't 'slide' to pick #58 like a Lachie Neale or Sam Mitchell. They're gone by pick 10. Even then they probably won't make it. GWS drafting 5 KPFs is unheard of. Mason Shaw has been delisted. Lee (StK) doing nothing along with Kersten (Geel). There simply hasn't been the talent to draft. We tried Gumbleton ( fail) and Apeness did his knee last year. One thing I think we should have done is trade out Mundy when his last contract was up, that would've ( maybe) got McCarthy.

Freo could have done a lot worse than have made a play for Tom Lee, with Carlisle arriving at St Kilda and Bruce and Membrey ahead of him in the pecking order up forward I can't see Lee getting many opportunities with us in the near future and you probably wouldn't have had to give up too much in a trade for him.

He's actually been OK in the few opportunities he's had at AFL level playing as a forward and has been playing in defence for us in the VFL where by all accounts he's been playing quite well. At worst he could have been a decent stop gap KPP until you find other players to replace McPharlin and Pavlich.

It just seemed that with Freo it was McCarthy or bust in terms of targeting a KPF, as Trevor Nisbett said recently you need to have a few irons in the fire with trading as quite often your first trade option falls through so you need to have back up trade options.

 

[Purple Suit]

The sort of mature response I'd expect from Freo supporters, this thread isn't about St Kilda or umpires it's about Freo's poor trading and drafting.



Freo could have done a lot worse than have made a play for Tom Lee, with Carlisle arriving at St Kilda and Bruce and Membrey ahead of him in the pecking order up forward I can't see Lee getting many opportunities with us in the near future and you probably wouldn't have had to give up too much in a trade for him.

He's actually been OK in the few opportunities he's had at AFL level playing as a forward and has been playing in defence for us in the VFL where by all accounts he's been playing quite well. At worst he could have been a decent stop gap KPP until you find other players to replace McPharlin and Pavlich.

It just seemed that with Freo it was McCarthy or bust in terms of targeting a KPF, as Trevor Nisbett said recently you need to have a few irons in the fire with trading as quite often your first trade option falls through so you need to have back up trade options.

There are plenty of hack key forwards out there. I'm sure we'll pick one or two up for free in draft and draft a young one who we can develop. No need to take on failed key forwards from other teams who still have contracts and had high picks burnt on them.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Exactly, but it was enough to add another 200K / year to his contract so it wasn't a complete waste of time.

Even if true how does that improve freos list

 

[Bucking Bronco]

Surprising thread, I thought Ross Lyon was the coaching messiah and had learnt from his mistakes from his time at St Kilda, well that's what Freo supporters have been telling me the past few years.

Seems like the same old problems are surfacing with Ross focusing on the short term rather than the long term and playing his favourite experienced players at the expense of youth.

Then when those favourite experienced players like McPharlin and Pavlich retire it's like "oh shit now what do we do?".

It's been pretty obvious that Freo have needed a quality KPF replacement for Pavlich for a while now, they shouldn't have been relying on a last ditch attempt to secure a young contracted KPF from GWS who still hasn't really proven himself consistently at AFL level.

No, It's actually the opposite. They are too hung up on the long-term and trying to achieve "sustained success" and as a result have been way too conservative when it's comes to drafting and trading. Whether it be overlooking a KPP (Lever/ Goddard) for the "best available" which happens to be a midfielder (Weller) that we already have in abundance, or refusing to offer mega deals to blokes like Tippett due to the fear offsetting TPP, or staunchly refusing to break some OCD-like parameter that has been put in place to prevent the club from "selling the future" (pick 16)/ paying overs for Mitch Clark - which in hindsight cost us at least one premiership.

I can understand it though, both parties have been involved in environments where they've been burnt by it. Ross with St. Kilda falling into a heap after neglecting the future, and the past Fremantle administration trading away the chance to get Jack Riewoldt in favour of having Chris Tarrant on the list for 4 years, etc.

I have no ill feeling towards Ross Lyon though, I think he is one of, if not the best coach(s) in the game. We had the 2nd worst key-forward stocks in the competition after Brisbane this year and yet still managed to finish top. It was on the back of him masterminding a gameplan that enabled us on most occasions to bring the opposition down to our level and hinder their ability to kick game-winning scores.

I think people expect too much of Lyon because of his credentials as a coach and because of the midfield that he has at his disposal. The reality is that it is very difficult to win a premiership without a dominant key-forward without getting very lucky. Sydney did it in 2012, but it was pretty much a self-inflicted loss from Hawthorn (the dominant team all year) on the back of them kicking themselves out of the game. You could still win one, but it requires a hell of a lot of luck (rub of the green, as well as opposition faltering). Against Hawthorn in the Preliminary final this year we didn't get the 'luck' with the umpires gifting multiple goals to Hawthorn and assisting them in stealing the momentum away from us. Because we don't have a forward line that is capable of making the most of our forward 50 entries we have very little room for error and are constantly walking a fine line against the very best teams as we are just not capable of pegging back any decently sized deficit. A few goals here and there due to errors in skill are expected and it is part of the tit for tat nature of footy but when it comes to adding in unfavourable 'luck' against a good team that we are already struggling to break even with, without the "3rd-party intervention" of umpires, our very small toleranced tipping point is reached.

That's what it comes down to. Whether Ross had any input in lowballing Brisbane for Clark, I don't know. If so then he is partly culpable for our current predicament of being premiership virgins. But, without that knowledge I can't fault his coaching considering what he has had to work with over the last few years.

 

[Kram]

The sort of mature response I'd expect from Freo supporters, this thread isn't about St Kilda or umpires it's about Freo's poor trading and drafting.



Freo could have done a lot worse than have made a play for Tom Lee, with Carlisle arriving at St Kilda and Bruce and Membrey ahead of him in the pecking order up forward I can't see Lee getting many opportunities with us in the near future and you probably wouldn't have had to give up too much in a trade for him.

He's actually been OK in the few opportunities he's had at AFL level playing as a forward and has been playing in defence for us in the VFL where by all accounts he's been playing quite well. At worst he could have been a decent stop gap KPP until you find other players to replace McPharlin and Pavlich.

It just seemed that with Freo it was McCarthy or bust in terms of targeting a KPF, as Trevor Nisbett said recently you need to have a few irons in the fire with trading as quite often your first trade option falls through so you need to have back up trade options.

lol Plugger.

 

[Bucking Bronco]

You say this but Mitch Clark has done bugger all. I wouldn't say this is a stuff up.

You're pretty thick, aye? Butterfly effect... He severely injured his foot in a freak accident against GWS in round 13 at the 'G. Prior to that he was killing it for the Dee's and was one of the top scorers in the comp.

He didn't have a defective body, he just got really unlucky. Something that probably would never have happened had he joined Freo. Once he injured his foot it set off a chain reaction which resulted in other areas of his body breaking down and him developing depression. Chances are he never would have sustained a serious injury in his entire career at Freo and we would have won a premiership in 2012/ 2013 and then probably another one this year or last.

Who knows if his body is partially cooked from all the injuries or if the mental issues were still weighing on his mind, but the Mitch Clark that was out there for Geelong this year was not the same one that was out there for Melbourne in 2012 and the same one that would have been at the Dockers.

 

[Silent Alarm]

There are issues with coaching, for sure. I do not rate Lyon. He's been up in the finals catalogue for so long but hasn't once pinched a flag. I'd really like to see some statistical comparison between how many finals premiership coaches get to – I bet Ross is right up there, without the 'premiership coach' title.

I don't rate him, his gameplay is overrated, he has a strict inability to reward youngsters or patronise youth who always need a few matches to adapt to the space and speed of AFL football. He gives Matt DeBoer and Nick Suban and Clancee Pearce 18 games a season when they're depth at best: guys who come in, do a job, and play their six matches a season.

There's a toxic culture at Freo where mediocrity is revered.

Richmond have a gutless captain who had an 'aw shucks' reaction to getting embarrassed by Port in 2014 (literally, the bloke shrugged his shoulders and said "yeah jeeeez, yeah, I just... dunno"). They have a BnF winner parading improvement when there's 0% and they should be ashamed of their perpetual finals failure. And people rag them for it.

But Freo supporters need to see some Tiges in themselves.

Why do 90% of supporters say "oh but we've been top four for four seasons!" as a trophy? You don't get anything for that. You only get a token for literally finishing top. It's a bit like how Arsene Wenger says playing Champions League for a decade is akin to an actual, physical, silver, real trophy. I do not feel happy about losing prelims or Grand Finals. There is no difference between finishing eighth and first. There is no memory, no party at Fremantle Oval, no justice for Pav, no day you'll be able to look back on with total pride and opposition envy. I have not seen a flag. I have seen a Grand Final, it was fun, I've got some special memories of the finals of 2013, but I haven't seen a flag.

The thing I am sick to **** of is people being happy to accept this, and using the club's poor fortunes prior to the 2010s as some comparison. Like everything is okay now because it was so glum then.

In 2003, Fremantle hosted Essendon in the club's first ever final.

They got flogged. Absolutely flogged.

The fans clapped Freo off.

How far away really is that mentality?

 

[Borderline]

You're pretty thick, aye? Butterfly effect... He severely injured his foot in a freak accident against GWS in round 13 at the 'G. Prior to that he was killing it for the Dee's and was one of the top scorers in the comp.

He didn't have a defective body, he just got really unlucky. Something that probably would never have happened had he joined Freo. Once he injured his foot it set off a chain reaction which resulted in other areas of his body breaking down and him developing depression. Chances are he never would have sustained a serious injury in his entire career at Freo and we would have won a premiership in 2012/ 2013 and then probably another one this year or last.

Who knows if his body is partially cooked from all the injuries or if the mental issues were still weighing on his mind, but the Mitch Clark that was out there for Geelong this year was not the same one that was out there for Melbourne in 2012 and the same one that would have been at the Dockers.

That's just guesswork at best. What's to say his mental health issues wouldn't have affected him here?

 

[Bicco]

The sort of mature response I'd expect from Freo supporters, this thread isn't about St Kilda or umpires it's about Freo's poor trading and drafting.



Freo could have done a lot worse than have made a play for Tom Lee, with Carlisle arriving at St Kilda and Bruce and Membrey ahead of him in the pecking order up forward I can't see Lee getting many opportunities with us in the near future and you probably wouldn't have had to give up too much in a trade for him.

He's actually been OK in the few opportunities he's had at AFL level playing as a forward and has been playing in defence for us in the VFL where by all accounts he's been playing quite well. At worst he could have been a decent stop gap KPP until you find other players to replace McPharlin and Pavlich.

It just seemed that with Freo it was McCarthy or bust in terms of targeting a KPF, as Trevor Nisbett said recently you need to have a few irons in the fire with trading as quite often your first trade option falls through so you need to have back up trade options.

It still leaves us in pretty much the same position though. A KPF takes on and can beat the opposition KPD. Lee won't do that for us. I'm sure there's one or two somebody will find, but there just hasn't been the talent to draft with the picks we've had. I think my points above are mostly valid. Our failures are as much bad management as bad luck and timing. An effect of two new teams coming in, diluting the talent pool and GWS in particular drafting multiple talented KPFs.

 

[Lach72]

lol Plugger.

Tom ****ing Lee [emoji23]

 

[Plugger35]

There are plenty of hack key forwards out there. I'm sure we'll pick one or two up for free in draft and draft a young one who we can develop. No need to take on failed key forwards from other teams who still have contracts and had high picks burnt on them.

I wouldn't call Lee a failed key forward, he's struggled with injuries and lack of opportunities lately but he's a serviceable KPF at AFL level plus he can also play as a key defender so I would've thought Freo would've at least had him under consideration, especially with him being from WA.

 

[Bucking Bronco]

That's just guesswork at best. What's to say his mental health issues wouldn't have affected him here?

It's not guesswork at all... One of the catalyst in his depression manifesting was because he was on a massive contract and he felt like he was letting the team down by not being able to be out there and help them; then the constant injuries compounded it.

It has been well documented.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

There are issues with coaching, for sure. I do not rate Lyon. He's been up in the finals catalogue for so long but hasn't once pinched a flag. I'd really like to see some statistical comparison between how many finals premiership coaches get to – I bet Ross is right up there, without the 'premiership coach' title.

I don't rate him, his gameplay is overrated, he has a strict inability to reward youngsters or patronise youth who always need a few matches to adapt to the space and speed of AFL football. He gives Matt DeBoer and Nick Suban and Clancee Pearce 18 games a season when they're depth at best: guys who come in, do a job, and play their six matches a season.

There's a toxic culture at Freo where mediocrity is revered.

Richmond have a gutless captain who had an 'aw shucks' reaction to getting embarrassed by Port in 2014 (literally, the bloke shrugged his shoulders and said "yeah jeeeez, yeah, I just... dunno"). They have a BnF winner parading improvement when there's 0% and they should be ashamed of their perpetual finals failure. And people rag them for it.

But Freo supporters need to see some Tiges in themselves.

Why do 90% of supporters say "oh but we've been top four for four seasons!" as a trophy? You don't get anything for that. You only get a token for literally finishing top. It's a bit like how Arsene Wenger says playing Champions League for a decade is akin to an actual, physical, silver, real trophy. I do not feel happy about losing prelims or Grand Finals. There is no difference between finishing eighth and first. There is no memory, no party at Fremantle Oval, no justice for Pav, no day you'll be able to look back on with total pride and opposition envy. I have not seen a flag. I have seen a Grand Final, it was fun, I've got some special memories of the finals of 2013, but I haven't seen a flag.

The thing I am sick to **** of is people being happy to accept this, and using the club's poor fortunes prior to the 2010s as some comparison. Like everything is okay now because it was so glum then.

In 2003, Fremantle hosted Essendon in the club's first ever final.

They got flogged. Absolutely flogged.

The fans clapped Freo off.

How far away really is that mentality?

Good night that!

 

[Lach72]

I wouldn't call Lee a failed key forward, he's struggled with injuries and lack of opportunities lately but he's a serviceable KPF at AFL level plus he can also play as a key defender so I would've thought Freo would've at least had him under consideration, especially with him being from WA.

He's not serviceable at AFL level. He's a crab

 

[Danny Cullen]

I wouldn't call Lee a failed key forward, he's struggled with injuries and lack of opportunities lately but he's a serviceable KPF at AFL level plus he can also play as a key defender so I would've thought Freo would've at least had him under consideration, especially with him being from WA.

Meh, he basically came across to your rabble with Coach McPhee. Actually reeks a bit of Neesham in the early days (btw, 2nd best coach we have had).

 

[Danny Cullen]

snip

Why don't you just **** off?

 

[Lach72]

Why don't you just **** off?

He would but he's fallen into his cup of decaf recaf after tripping over his self importance

 

[Kram]

Good night that!

Disgraced drug cheat.

 

[mehow2g]

If Fyfe gets injured which is pretty likely as he carries the team as it is good bye 2016.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Why don't you just **** off?

You hate environmentalism so much, you're bringing anti-Greens sentiments into every single bigfooty (a football, not ****ing political forum, by the way) post via your signature. I'm happy you think I'm a tool.

 

[Danny Cullen]

You hate environmentalism so much, you're bringing anti-Greens sentiments into every single bigfooty (a football, not ******* political forum, by the way) post via your signature. I'm happy you think I'm a tool.

I can't stand greenies and political fools. So sue me.

 

[Borderline]

It's not guesswork at all... One of the catalyst in his depression manifesting was because he was on a massive contract and he felt like he was letting the team down by not being able to be out there and help them; then the constant injuries compounded it.

It has been well documented.

You don't need a reason to have depression, sure that wouldn't have helped but there's people in enjoyable jobs, earning big bucks, happy kids and wife who are still depressed, it doesn't need a trigger.

 

[Bender_]

Had to check I hadn't accidentally wandered onto the Freo board, riveting stuff though guys.

I rarely read the mainboard, but this thread is too good to put down.