News Geelong aiming for another flag

[Pure_Ownage]

This is a perfect example of how everyone agrees there needs to be change but no one is willing to drop anyone.

Everyone knocked Bomber for not having the guts to leave players out but it seems the supporters are the same.

Some even use the criteria "he should play if fit"
Which means if the 22 (minus gaz) from last years prelim are fit they all play.
Which means we finish 5th.

Then there are those that are only willing to drop stokes/byrnes/lonergan/blake

I can't see how that improves the team.

We lost last year because our engine room lost it's pace. And we've just lost one of our fastest players.

If I could drop 5 they would be Corey, Ling, Milburn, Mooney, Stokes.
So we have to bring in 6.

Probably Mackie, T Hunt, Hogan, Menzel, Duncan, Blake

Bloody awesome post. Should be bookmarked permanently.

Supporters want us to improve but aren't prepared to make the hard decisions required to do it.

As I said, none of our great kids will play unless those decisions are made.

Where are the spare spots?

I certainly hope our new coach isn't as timid as our supporters when it comes to team selection.

 

[David the Cat]

Bloody awesome post. Should be bookmarked permanently.

Supporters want us to improve but aren't prepared to make the hard decisions required to do it.

As I said, none of our great kids will play unless those decisions are made.

Where are the spare spots?

I certainly hope our new coach isn't as timid as our supporters when it comes to team selection.

I hope our new coach picks the team on form, form and form! ...not arbitrarily picking players out of a hat and replacing them with lesser players because they have potential. IF a player doesn't perform, he should be replaced by a player who does. This should be assessed during the pre-season, and from their work on the track.

To discard Corey, for example, based on some unsubstantiated suggestion that his knee is shot, or he's too old, ( at 28???) or he's " had it" is just plain dumb. IF...and I say if...he doesnt perform and his knee doesn't hold up then by all means, but I would suggest that Joel would know that himself, and being the guy he is, make the decision easy for selectors. If ever their was a team man it would be Joel Corey.

There's all this talk about us being too slow, and the calls for quick players to be chosen. Well its no good being quick if you can't get the bloody pill. ( e.g. Kane Tenace )

The year should start with a clean slate for ALL players, and in combination with Scott's game plan be chosen on form, not reputation, OR potential alone.

Change for changes sake isn't a good policy. Resisting change for sentimentality isn't either. Its form...form...form.

I have no doubt that Scott will expect...demand ....performance, and in the end, thats what he will get. And it wont matter who you are.

 

[vinum coupe]

What you say is all fair David. And to be honest if I posted an argument we'd be splitting hairs.
But I'll do it anyway

All I'd say is let's play 5 kids in the nab cup and leave 5 'older' players out.
If the kids form is good enough they stay.

Because if you do it the other way around it will be very easy to justify not dropping the older players. (he just needs another game into his legs. he offers us experience around the contest. we know what he is capable of. he has a strong body that we need. he deserves more time etc. etc.)

It's a bit like keeping M Hussey in the test team. He is good enough to hit a ton and win a test for us eventually. But how long do you wait?
Well we waited and waited and now he can't be dropped. So there goes another 2 years of youth development. A kid could have been playing for the past 18 months and offering just as much as hussey did over that period. And now he would almost be developed.

 

[Cataholic]

What you say is all fair David. And to be honest if I posted an argument we'd be splitting hairs.
But I'll do it anyway

All I'd say is let's play 5 kids in the nab cup and leave 5 'older' players out.
If the kids form is good enough they stay.

Because if you do it the other way around it will be very easy to justify not dropping the older players. (he just needs another game into his legs. he offers us experience around the contest. we know what he is capable of. he has a strong body that we need. he deserves more time etc. etc.)

It's a bit like keeping M Hussey in the test team. He is good enough to hit a ton and win a test for us eventually. But how long do you wait?
Well we waited and waited and now he can't be dropped. So there goes another 2 years of youth development. A kid could have been playing for the past 18 months and offering just as much as hussey did over that period. And now he would almost be developed.

Bullseye. You nailed it. Couldn't agree more.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Bullseye. You nailed it. Couldn't agree more.

Agree- the Team contesting the Finals this year was essentially the same as 2009.
We just got over the line in 2009 and fell well short this year.
We need regeneration or we will continue to come up short when it counts.
We need to introduce our equivalents of Dawes, Blair, Toovey, Reid and NBrown. Who will be our Presti, Lockyer, O'Bree, Fraser, Medhurst etc ?

 

[thejester]

Agree- the Team contesting the Finals this year was essentially the same as 2009.
We just got over the line in 2009 and fell well short this year.
We need regeneration or we will continue to come up short when it counts.
We need to introduce our equivalents of Dawes, Blair, Toovey, Reid and NBrown. Who will be our Presti, Lockyer, O'Bree, Fraser, Medhurst etc ?

I'd be more interested in knowing who will be our Darren Jolly and Luke Ball, TBH.

 

[David the Cat]

What you say is all fair David. And to be honest if I posted an argument we'd be splitting hairs.
But I'll do it anyway

All I'd say is let's play 5 kids in the nab cup and leave 5 'older' players out.
If the kids form is good enough they stay.

Because if you do it the other way around it will be very easy to justify not dropping the older players. (he just needs another game into his legs. he offers us experience around the contest. we know what he is capable of. he has a strong body that we need. he deserves more time etc. etc.)

It's a bit like keeping M Hussey in the test team. He is good enough to hit a ton and win a test for us eventually. But how long do you wait?
Well we waited and waited and now he can't be dropped. So there goes another 2 years of youth development. A kid could have been playing for the past 18 months and offering just as much as hussey did over that period. And now he would almost be developed.

I can see that if we debated this at length we would probably end up at the same point...

Yes..play the kids...AND play the " older" guys in the pre-season....as I said earlier... depth is gold. Another poster also referred to how well Collingwood handled the transition players and it wouldn't hurt us to emulate how they managed this issue ...(Lockyer, Medhurst, Fraser etc)

The cream will eventually rise to the top..players not up to it will drop away, injuries, and form fluctuations will allow for many opportunities....in the end, Scott will know his best combination, and I suspect it will include some of Motlop, Menzel, Duncan, Mackie and Drum..maybe West/Simpson.....changes will happen but lets not condemn 28 year old club champions to the scrap heap prematurely. ( Yes, I am a little sensitive over Joel Corey...I think he is gun and will show he still has it in 2011. My news is he is 100% )

In the finals last year we should have beaten the Saints and ran into a red hot Collingwood who demolished us.... as they did in 2007 btw....we are not far away...4 or 5 changes could make all the difference and we wont have the distraction of the Ablett/Thompson fiasco impacting on team fabric either.

I am optimistic about this coming season.

 

[Vdubs]

I can see that if we debated this at length we would probably end up at the same point...

Yes..play the kids...AND play the " older" guys in the pre-season....as I said earlier... depth is gold. Another poster also referred to how well Collingwood handled the transition players and it wouldn't hurt us to emulate how they managed this issue ...(Lockyer, Medhurst, Fraser etc)

The cream will eventually rise to the top..players not up to it will drop away, injuries, and form fluctuations will allow for many opportunities....in the end, Scott will know his best combination, and I suspect it will include some of Motlop, Menzel, Duncan, Mackie and Drum..maybe West/Simpson.....changes will happen but lets not condemn 28 year old club champions to the scrap heap prematurely. ( Yes, I am a little sensitive over Joel Corey...I think he is gun and will show he still has it in 2011. My news is he is 100% )

In the finals last year we should have beaten the Saints and ran into a red hot Collingwood who demolished us.... as they did in 2007 btw....we are not far away...4 or 5 changes could make all the difference and we wont have the distraction of the Ablett/Thompson fiasco impacting on team fabric either.

I am optimistic about this coming season.

Think you mean 2008 when the red hot Pies demolished us. That very loss left me very much doubting we would win the GF in 08. Just thought we could easily have an off day sometime when it counts.anyway....

I like your optimism, and you seem to know your Geelong stuff really well despite being 3 hours behind? I too look forward to a several Cat issues this year, but I can not visualise our team realistically being up for a flag this year based on , a lot to do with how our season ended 2010. But obviously it has to be the aim as we are clearly not yet going down the reebuilding phase.

 

[David the Cat]

I have a couple of " spies" who write regularly and keep me up to date! But I have loved and followed the Cats since I was 4...and thats a longggg way back...here's a hint how long ago...

I remember a brawl at KP in a Collingwood game...it was an all in...Duncan Wright ( a dog ) was involved of course...and Fred Wooler came running in to get involved...got about one foot away from the pack and ran into a fist..knocking him out before he even had a chance to get involved!. I was very young but I couldnt believe what I was watching. Now thats a long history isnt it???

As you know, I played a lot of footy myself and watched ( and suffered ) club politics and player management over a long period...and being a Psych it seemed all very interesting to me. Its good to read the more intelligent posters here who are close to the action, but sometimes cant help but express a contrary opinion....hell...why not!

Anyway...lets see how 2011 pans out...I think we will be thereabouts. I am not as negative about the end of 2010 as some others, but of course I may be proved wrong.....time will tell.

PS: You're right about 2008...thanks...it was a real shellacking. And I am 10 hours behind...sort of gives me the benefit of hindsight in advance....LOL

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I hope our new coach picks the team on form, form and form! ...not arbitrarily picking players out of a hat and replacing them with lesser players because they have potential. IF a player doesn't perform, he should be replaced by a player who does. This should be assessed during the pre-season, and from their work on the track.

To discard Corey, for example, based on some unsubstantiated suggestion that his knee is shot, or he's too old, ( at 28???) or he's " had it" is just plain dumb. IF...and I say if...he doesnt perform and his knee doesn't hold up then by all means, but I would suggest that Joel would know that himself, and being the guy he is, make the decision easy for selectors. If ever their was a team man it would be Joel Corey.

There's all this talk about us being too slow, and the calls for quick players to be chosen. Well its no good being quick if you can't get the bloody pill. ( e.g. Kane Tenace )

The year should start with a clean slate for ALL players, and in combination with Scott's game plan be chosen on form, not reputation, OR potential alone.

Change for changes sake isn't a good policy. Resisting change for sentimentality isn't either. Its form...form...form.

I have no doubt that Scott will expect...demand ....performance, and in the end, thats what he will get. And it wont matter who you are.

I totally agree selection should be based on form, and we shouldn't have a 'youth policy'. However if it's based on form, you've got to reward the form of players below, if it's better than some in the team, even if it means dropping premiership players.

Anyway, my point wasn't in regards to that, nor was it about dropping JC specifically.

The 'timid' thing was simply at the posts (and real life comments) of many supporters who in one breath support the inclusion of thunt, menzel, duncan etc, yet in the next sentence aren't prepared to drop any senior players. Talk about trying to have your cake and eat it too. VC, the smart man, was onto this on these boards months ago if I remember correctly.

In regards to JC, while I love him, I think it's a bit naive to think he will 'make the decision easy for selectors'. We've all seen that footballers rarely want to go on their own terms and try and hang on as long as they can. Hence why I say hopefully Scott is not timid, because if change ends up needing to be made, he will have to be ruthless in making it, while JC's a great team man, he won't do it for him.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

What you say is all fair David. And to be honest if I posted an argument we'd be splitting hairs.
But I'll do it anyway

All I'd say is let's play 5 kids in the nab cup and leave 5 'older' players out.
If the kids form is good enough they stay.

Because if you do it the other way around it will be very easy to justify not dropping the older players. (he just needs another game into his legs. he offers us experience around the contest. we know what he is capable of. he has a strong body that we need. he deserves more time etc. etc.)

It's a bit like keeping M Hussey in the test team. He is good enough to hit a ton and win a test for us eventually. But how long do you wait?
Well we waited and waited and now he can't be dropped. So there goes another 2 years of youth development. A kid could have been playing for the past 18 months and offering just as much as hussey did over that period. And now he would almost be developed.

Yep, spot on.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

I'd be more interested in knowing who will be our Darren Jolly and Luke Ball, TBH.

Spot on !!
The point I was trying to make was we are at the same point the Pies were - we know that our group is close but not good enough to go all the way in its current mix.
Unless we change/ inject fresh blood/ alter game plan slightly we will fall further behind as others grow and improve. If we stand still we will go backwards, such is the AFL these days.

 

[Partridge]

Because if you do it the other way around it will be very easy to justify not dropping the older players. (he just needs another game into his legs. he offers us experience around the contest. we know what he is capable of. he has a strong body that we need. he deserves more time etc. etc.)

The words Matthew and Stokes come to mind immediately. Glad we've got a new coach.