Analysis Geelong Cats are preliminary finals chokers: Some hard truthes.

[ATSAM]

There is a difference between supportive fans and those that think the club owes them. Many jumped on the bandwagon 2007-11 and expect the same success and are unable to accept the cycles of life.

Cook did not blame the fans for the loss to Richmond, he was disappointed that so few turned up.

Yes but it felt like we were being blamed, for something. If the club had come out an argued strong and loud(even if they knew they wouldn't win) for a home final and against a Friday night in Melb we may have been on his side and felt a little less under the spotlight. Its alright for him it is part of his job so he can drive up to Melb early, get a park and stroll in to a delegated seat. We can't. Did he have to pay for his ticket??? We do.
Lots of reasons why Geelong supporters weren't there.
And PS how long since he has even deemed to 'speak' to the members/supporters

 

[Pavlovs Cat]

We lost to the best team in the comp on their home deck. On what planet is that a choke? Our depth is an issue but what do you expect with 8 prelims in eleven years? No early draft picks and we've swapped out and topped up fairly well to stay in the window. So I think it's awesome that players like Parfitt, Smith, Parsons, Stewart, Bews, Zuthrie, Cockatoo and Buzza have emerged or genuinely stepped up.

While it looks like we haven't advanced the names named above show that we are developing the next generation and remaining competitive. The added bonus is that these blokes are getting finals in to them. I also thought Chris Scott showed a greater willingness to change and that he showed that he can learn from mistakes which was a valid criticism of him last year.

We were flattened by two freight trains this month who have also had the choker tag applied to them in previous seasons. If you keep knocking on the door you are an attractive destination club whose time will eventually come.

 

[steady2]

Yes but it felt like we were being blamed, for something. If the club had come out an argued strong and loud(even if they knew they wouldn't win) for a home final and against a Friday night in Melb we may have been on his side and felt a little less under the spotlight. Its alright for him it is part of his job so he can drive up to Melb early, get a park and stroll in to a delegated seat. We can't. Did he have to pay for his ticket??? We do.
Lots of reasons why Geelong supporters weren't there.
And PS how long since he has even deemed to 'speak' to the members/supporters

Think you represent all the Cat supporters do you? It is ok to express your own personal frustration, too many here think they represent everybody else. Whatever you felt, it is what you felt. I did not.

Yes I would have preferred a stronger position on the 'home' final from the club, that has nothing to do with why I did not go. (family/work,etc) and yes I feel a little guilty I did not make a better effort, but I do not condemn Cook or the club for pointing out how little support there was there that night.

Cook speaks to Geelong supporters and members just about every day of the week as far as I can see. Cook, along with Costa and Bomber Thomson and later on Neil Balme is one of the team that dragged Geelong out of mediocrity into a powerhouse which won three flags. But you go ahead and whinge, perhaps you can call for his head too, since you 'feel' so bad about our loss. Point the finger and blame.

 

[Ricketz]

You watch Richmond fight to get cotchin off for his bump and compare to the pathetic effort when dangerfield got suspended. We are soft from the top down. We are spineless as a club and the players are a reflection of that

It sure helps when even the AFL media posts more articles about why Cotchin should get off than they do about the actual game.

The media campaigners across the board are gunning hard to get him off - its a disgrace.

 

[maryjames]

Just maybe cats havent quite got the team to win a premiership the last few years. Ffs.

 

[Warhorse]

We lost to the best team in the comp on their home deck. On what planet is that a choke? Our depth is an issue but what do you expect with 8 prelims in eleven years? No early draft picks and we've swapped out and topped up fairly well to stay in the window. So I think it's awesome that players like Parfitt, Smith, Parsons, Stewart, Bews, Zuthrie, Cockatoo and Buzza have emerged or genuinely stepped up.

While it looks like we haven't advanced the names named above show that we are developing the next generation and remaining competitive. The added bonus is that these blokes are getting finals in to them. I also thought Chris Scott showed a greater willingness to change and that he showed that he can learn from mistakes which was a valid criticism of him last year.

We were flattened by two freight trains this month who have also had the choker tag applied to them in previous seasons. If you keep knocking on the door you are an attractive destination club whose time will eventually come.

Two freight trains? You must be kidding. Both are average. We have a better midfield and defence than adelaide on paper but blew it with team selection and poor coaching. Seeing adelaide run away to a quick lead whilst danger is sitting in the forward line twiddling his thumbs was shocking.

Richmond have an average list but the coach has them working hard and playing for each other. Look at how dusty plays for his team and compare to danger who plays for himself

 

[maryjames]

this time last year richmond was a laughing stock
one year on and the result is so different

If lose on Saturday the laughing will continue..

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Loving all these blow ins created this month..
Wonder whose alias they would be...

 

[Ricketz]

Two freight trains? You must be kidding. Both are average. We have a better midfield and defence than adelaide on paper but blew it with team selection and poor coaching. Seeing adelaide run away to a quick lead whilst danger is sitting in the forward line twiddling his thumbs was shocking.

Richmond have an average list but the coach has them working hard and playing for each other. Look at how dusty plays for his team and compare to danger who plays for himself

I said it would be a certainty they play Danger in the guts from the start. They move him in and he gets us back in the game - I just can't fathom that decision.

I can't agree with your assessment of Danger though. Nor Dusty.

 

[Warhorse]

I said it would be a certainty they play Danger in the guts from the start. They move him in and he gets us back in the game - I just can't fathom that decision.

I can't agree with your assessment of Danger though. Nor Dusty.

Danger might be a good forward but he certainly doesnt work well in the forwardline unless he is 'the man'. Cutting of a certain menzel mark is a prime example

 

[nananana catman]

We had the cattle to win the flag this year, and will again next year.

For any team that does win, there is always an element of luck involved. I wonder how the same game looks on Friday if Dangerfield nails that first goal of the match?

However, Chris Scot has summed it up quite well. It now needs to be stripped back and we start again. The development of players that showed improvement this year needs to continue, as does the management and strategic planning of developing a side the suits September/beating the other good sides in the competition.

The reality is we beat both Adelaide and Richmond during the year. And, we played in how many Prelims in the last decade? Anyone who says there is 'something wrong' needs to go and chat to a few St Kilda or Melbourne fans.

 

[longtimecat]

We had the cattle to win the flag this year, and will again next year.

For any team that does win, there is always an element of luck involved. I wonder how the same game looks on Friday if Dangerfield nails that first goal of the match?

However, Chris Scot has summed it up quite well. It now needs to be stripped back and we start again. The development of players that showed improvement this year needs to continue, as does the management and strategic planning of developing a side the suits September/beating the other good sides in the competition.

The reality is we beat both Adelaide and Richmond during the year. And, we played in how many Prelims in the last decade? Anyone who says there is 'something wrong' needs to go and chat to a few St Kilda or Melbourne fans.

I reckon both Richmond and Adelaide showed up our lack of pace, a lot of our smaller players have been out injured this year so I guess that will help next year, but we sure could use a quick forward pocket.

 

[baldandbroke]

Sorry for the intrusion, but this needs a comment

Patrick Dangerfield is a champion.

Agreed.

But, his field kicking to position on the run and goal kicking in front of goal needs some work and polish.

Yep, spot on. Has always suffered from this, but you take his positives over his negatives all day long.

Danger reminds me of Darren Jarman. But his foot disposal lets him down.

Huh? Paddy is like the anti-DJarman. PD has explosive pace, brutal at the coal face. DJ was silk but never fast, elite football mind, the best kick (either foot) in football.

As far as your list goes, I think it is better than many realise as you have blooded some talent ... and just like everyone you else need that to come on. Losing Mackie and Lonergan will be a challenge ... but you coped before when you lost superstars, so I expect it happen again.

 

[Seeds]

we have finished top four in four of the past five seasons. the probability of making a gf from a top four finish is about 46 per cent. Therefore the probabilty of us not making a gf and for it not to be a random event in the past five years is less then 10 percent. Thats statistically significant for me. We are finals chokers.

 

[Partridge]

I reckon both Richmond and Adelaide showed up our lack of pace, a lot of our smaller players have been out injured this year so I guess that will help next year, but we sure could use a quick forward pocket.

They both showed us up for pace. More importantly, they showed us up for evenness across an entire 22. Not to mention effort and commitment.

I'm not sure we do have the cattle. The stats don't lie and they are brutal. We were belted by both Grand Final teams. An entire tier of the team failed again under finals heat. Given that most if not all will still be there next year, and won't be dropped, I don't see that as being magically resolved.

 

[Cat Tragic]

Kinda hard to assess the season. We played 36 players and 8 debutants. Great teams are built around a group of players playing lots of football together. We never had thatthis year and our forward line was especially hard hit. The number of injuries must be fixed.

You say we were a point from seventh. I say we're second and as a club we earnt it.

What we need is consistency of efforts from everyone. That is what disappoints me the most.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Sticksman]

You say we were a point from seventh. I say we're second and as a club we earnt it.

We certainly did earn it.

People can split hairs as much as they like but the fact is we finished on the same number of wins, draws and losses as the team that finished top despite them playing 12 games at their home ground whilst we played just 7 at our home ground. That is a pretty remarkable record.

 

[Jaydogga]

No in depth analysis needed... we just aren't a premiership winning team. We have an incredible home ground advantage that our tactics work perfectly on for us to get some big wins. And we have (arguably) 2 of the best 5 players in the competition who both dig in deep at tight moments. So our faults just get papered over and have us appearing closer to premiership than what we actually are.
We've drafted for the now with Menegola, Stewart and Ruggles, and you get what you pay for, they have flaws, their flaws are disposal efficiency.
We have players like Blicavs, Guthrie, Murdoch who only perform when they are required otherwise they leave it to somebody else.
Stanley is a front runner and shows fleeting glimpses of being the elite big man in the competition. If you were winning by 100+ every week he'd look incredible.
Smith is improving but just drag him down to defence and he hates the contested ball. Stokes could out mark him in marking contest.
Tuohy was the turn over king Friday, I know he breaks lines by drawing the player but he just seemed out of his depth with the pressure on Friday.
Parsons I really like... just like I really like Murdoch after 10 games. I feel like he could be a right footed Murdoch. Exactly what we need.
Lang, just because we recruited one gun who slid down the draft order with an injury doesn't mean that is a guaranteed way to success. When he gets the ball he looks so slick... he just rarely gets it enough.
Kolo, yes he improved but a still poor mans wingman. Always making mistakes... yes I know he will improve.
S.Selwood tries hard but also poor skills, always had them even at WC.
Taylor... poor guy, recruit or develop a forward so he can play defence. He's an A grade defender, and a a C grade forward... our next key forward is only a D grade. Our second key forwards have all been pathetic since pods left.
Hawkins... he still has credits in the bank for me, so won't tee off yet.
If Menzel wants to stay at geelong, maybe do just something selfless like put on some defensive pressure or pass the ball to someone in a better position. You don't need to be like Cyril, but maybe just 1 tackle a game might help.
Motlop 700k he's on... he has the talent to be on even more if he just switched himself on for each game. Instead he's now going to have his salary sliced.
But... Come round 1, when I have hope and optimisin back in my eyes I'll see the positives in all these guys again.

 

[Ricketz]

Danger might be a good forward but he certainly doesnt work well in the forwardline unless he is 'the man'. Cutting of a certain menzel mark is a prime example

Yeah, I agree with that assessment. In his defence, that happens a lot when you sit a midfielder in the forwardline, tbh.

 

[Ricketz]

we have finished top four in four of the past five seasons. the probability of making a gf from a top four finish is about 46 per cent. Therefore the probabilty of us not making a gf and for it not to be a random event in the past five years is less then 10 percent. Thats statistically significant for me. We are finals chokers.

I think it is fair to say that you are shoehorning some stats to fit your pre-conceived conclusion. Your sample size is far too small to be making these sorts of conclusions with any meaningful certainty.

Fair enough if that is what you think, but this isn't proof of it.

 

[dazbroncos]

Loving all these blow ins created this month..
Wonder whose alias they would be...

There a long list don’t worry

Go Catters

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

We're about to watch a team go into a Grand Final with the following players in their bottom 10.
Jason Castagna, Nick Vlastuin, Shaun Grigg, Kamdyn McIntosh, Daniel Rioli, Jack Graham, Jacob Townsend, Dan Butler, Nathan Broad, David Astbury.

These blokes are either seriously limited, or incredibly inexperienced (in some cases, both), but right now they are playing an outstanding brand of team football. These blokes completely understand their role.

We've got the cattle to play in a GF, we just need to figure out how to use it.

 

[Ricketz]

They both showed us up for pace. More importantly, they showed us up for evenness across an entire 22. Not to mention effort and commitment.

I'm not sure we do have the cattle. The stats don't lie and they are brutal. We were belted by both Grand Final teams. An entire tier of the team failed again under finals heat. Given that most if not all will still be there next year, and won't be dropped, I don't see that as being magically resolved.

You probably forgot how bad our preparation was leading into the finals, hell all yeah in terms of stability - we did not field our best side for any period of consistency and certainly not before the finals. How many inexperienced players who hadn't played with the other 21 players for any significant period did we play against Richmond and Adelaide, compared to their teams?

I see genuine improvement coming from our list, and some massive leaps and bounds from some of those players if we can get through our injuries and have a decent run at it.

 

[Rear Admiral]

I'm a Crows supporter, but not a Troll looking to stir sh*t in the least.

I thought Geelong were amongst the best teams over the season, where they were one of the teams that I thought were a genuine threat for the Flag. I don't want to start "naming names/teams", but Geelong were one of the teams I thought were a true threat for the Flag, in no uncertain terms.

I only just watched Chris Scott's post-match press conference here:

http://www.afl.com.au/video/latest/media-conferences

I was incredibly surprised at what he said, but especially by how he spoke, where he did speak incredibly well.

Irrespective of the final margin, I didn't think that Geelong played poorly, where the players should not feel they've let down their fans. Over the duration, there have been different games where various clubs have played really badly on the day, where the Crows are anything but immune. But I honestly think that this Preliminary Final was not an example of this. Geelong weren't pathetic, not by any means. Nor did they chuck in the towel.

 

[iameviljez]

Two freight trains? You must be kidding. Both are average. We have a better midfield and defence than adelaide on paper but blew it with team selection and poor coaching. Seeing adelaide run away to a quick lead whilst danger is sitting in the forward line twiddling his thumbs was shocking.

Better defence, probably, but a better midfield?

They have numbers in depth that we simply cannot match. I mean, they left Scott Thompson out all year for goodness' sakes. It doesn't hurt that they have the best ruckman in the comp, too.