Rumour GFC 2021 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists... Part II

[Shadow89]

‘There is nothing like unearthing young talent’: Geelong boss Steve Hocking

Geelong have committed to Chris Scott beyond 2022 but the club will look different under new CEO Steve Hocking.

www.theage.com.au

Such a good read, and very very happy to see just how strong he's been on this since he got to the club.

These two parts in particular were the most illuminating, IMO:


"That philosophy of giving opportunities to young people would extend beyond the AFL team but to AFLW and all other parts of the football club - you can write that as big as you want, Hocking said...

...Hocking said the club would still contend in 2022, but he felt there had perhaps been too much emphasis on the now rather than the having one foot planted in the current season and another foot looking towards the future."

 

[catempire]

...Hocking said the club would still contend in 2022, but he felt there had perhaps been too much emphasis on the now rather than the having one foot planted in the current season and another foot looking towards the future."

I know that’s a convenient and common narrative, but I’d be interested to know what specific decisions Hocking would place in this frame.

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

Is this Hocking finally admitting what a lot of us have been saying here for years

Hocking said the club would still contend in 2022, but he felt there had perhaps been too much emphasis on the now rather than the having one foot planted in the current season and another foot looking towards the future.

 

[Shadow89]

I know that’s a convenient and common narrative, but I’d be interested to know what specific decisions Hocking would place in this frame.

I think it lines up pretty neatly with the previous comment I posted tbh, where he says 'the philosophy of giving opportunity to young people will extend beyond the AFL to our AFLW team...' etc.

The two statements seem to marry up quite well, and suggest that Hocking will be angling for more opportunity to be provided to those who haven't had a chance to show their wares - even if that is at the expense of succeeding in the present.

That this will be a mantra that he wants spread throughout the club, because we've gone too far in the other direction - to the detriment of some of our younger talent like Kreuger and Clark not getting ample opportunity - which is why they've left. He wants us to swing back more in the other direction. Still being competitive, but actually exposing talent on our list and not just being left with nothing when all our old stars retire.

At least that's how I read it anyway, and that also seems to be all of the messaging coming out of the club too

 

[Shadow89]

Is this Hocking finally admitting what a lot of us have been saying here for years

Yep. And him publicly saying it, and so strongly too, means that some really tough conversations have been held behind closed doors. Makes me feel better about Scott too, as he's got someone bigger than him in Hocking, who seems to be steering the ship in the right direction. Possible that this idea has invigorated Scott a bit, hence him choosing to stick it out - and that not all of the blame for selection rests with him, but with assistants picking their favourites like Scarlett, Knights and Enright.

Genuinely makes me a lot more excited about next year, as Hocking also commented on how all our stars are injured at different points, and how we need to manage that better. Suggests that they'll get rests at times - enforced ones - which allows the younger guys to get more of a look in too. Also suggests that the power will be shifted away from the players who have had too much say - like Ablett and Sel in recent years who should have been rested much more.

Genuinely, this is the probably the best thing I've heard come out of the club in a very long time. An absolute breath of fresh air, and some easy going, knowledgeable and friendly new staff coming in, in Betts, Pops (possibly Egan) and Harry too.

Really starting to look forward to next year, given how many new faces we'll have at the club - and young ones more importantly!

 

[ShaunWDT]

Ones own opinion always kicks in. Knightmare has his too. Would we take Conway with our first pick? It would certainly indicate that we have changed our thinking. ... after bringing in Ceglar..to then draft a ruck with our first pick. It would sort be putting a tack in the wall for a painting with a sledge hammer... but if we went that way so be it.

Just a guess.. and who knows..what the club are thinking really... but I would think they would want pick someone that has a chance of playing by 2023. If it fell the way he has painted.. I think these two would be given strong consideration. .. Howes can play a 3rd tall forward but has the ability to cover ground and Taylor sort of reminds me of Merrit.

Once we get into the 30's good luck picking the way we will go.



26. Hawthorn - Blake Howes
Height, Weight: 190cm, 79kg
Profile: An athletic utility with the positional range to play forward, back or on a wing, Howes is a high leaping and strong marking prospect. Possessing good speed and agility, Howes at this stage is most accustomed to playing across half-forward but could just as easily develop across half-back given his marking gifts and athletic profile.

28. Richmond - Zac Taylor
Height, Weight: 180cm, 74kg
Profile: With one of the strongest closes to the NAB League season, Taylor showed he's one of the most productive and complete midfielders in this draft. Ending his NAB League campaign with 37 disposals, 22 contested possessions and 11 clearances in a 10-point win against Murray, Taylor is a precise and damaging kick, speedy and evasive with ball in hand and has a great inside/outside balance to his game.

Knightmare has better knowledge than most but he still has a ridiculous amount of bias as to how he rates certain players.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Is this Hocking finally admitting what a lot of us have been saying here for years

Problem for me is it's still a step behind, we should now be looking almost entirely to the future.

 

[Warhorse]

There was footage on the club website of Wells calling Scott after we drafted Brad Close. It was clear Scott had absolutely no input on the decision, Wells said something along the lines of "There were a few 190cm type midfielders, but we felt this guy will have a bigger impact" and Scott just responded "Great, sounds good".

Sounds like Wells justifying the decision to Scott more than anything. While Scott doesn't drive the decision making, he has input in our game plan and the types of players he wants for that gameplan

It's not just his kicking.
They are very clever in using slow mo. But his handballs are just bale out options.

Look, I like Blicavs but he craps himself under pressure with bale outs. I see the same in knivett

Yep. Something a little off in that footage.

 

[Down at K Park]

Problem for me is it's still a step behind, we should now be looking almost entirely to the future.

All just words at this point. If we go into round 1 with dahlhouse and higgins still in the team we’ll know it was just a smoke blowing exercise.

 

[Drunkcat]

Id hope we’re not picking/passing on players based on 2-3mins of footage.

If you have not watched a player all year then everyone is going off these highlights, That's why i am happy know one on bigfooty is selecting anyone

 

[Drunkcat]

Just to confirm ..its this kid you are talking about..? Maybe Im looking at different kid.

These highlights gives you nothing could not say he looks good or bad but looks like he has a good left foot kick on him

 

[Pollywaffle]

Thats certainly a definitely a signal thing will be heading a different way. Probably a year two..late but lets see how it works out from here..

Sounded like ‘a bob each way’ to me.
Makes sense that he plays himself in over the medium term with just a few tweaks here and there. Can’t expect him to come in and bigfoot around too much, particularly early days after just recently replacing a guy who has been in the position a long time.
I would think though, if we stink it up next season then we see the real Hocking.

 

[Turbocat]

Who was your pick ahead of Lang at the time?

I think I can remember Vdubs like McStay ...I think he was one one of his boys. Id probably would have gone Dunstan or Crouch. Be nice to have looked at Merritt

 

[GeelongFTW]

The one thing i feel like we will do know that we didn't previously is "nurse" old players.

"hang on just give him a few more games, he will clean up his disposal..."

If you're not playing well from the start (e.g. Smith) you're out of the team until you do in the VFL. And even then...

 

[GeelongFTW]

* not nurse them i mean.

 

[St Francis of Kardinia]

Sorry on second read my post did come across as a bit combative. That certainly wasn't my intention.

I definitely don't think your point of view is outlandish, in fact my philosophy on the draft is probably the more unique one.

I have just always believed that in the first round of the draft you try to pick players who have both a high ceiling and high floor.

But After that you just start focusing on the ceiling as much as possible. You will get a lot more duds. But how you make up for that is after there first 2 year contract you be really harsh if they aren't at where you expected them to be after 2 years when you first drafted them. This way you are getting more quantity through the door.

This is because I believe the point of the draft is to get your A and B+ Grade talent. Any other list holes you have in the future can be solved through free agency, delisted free agency, the trade period and drafting mature age talent.

For example a guy like Angus Sheldrick in this draft, he has had an awesome year. However, personally I don't see a huge amount of upside. His body has already filled out. He isn't overly athletic. Like I would be surprised if he was ever better than a 4th or 5th best mid. Drafting him is a waste because if you ever need a player like that you can just get one for peanuts in the ways I stated above.

I hope this explains why I believe drafting Murley is a smart decision due to his upside but that doesn't mean that my opinion is right. Both philosophies have there pros and cons and won't always work.

Lastly, again appologies for how poorly worded my last post was. That's my bad.

I know it’s a simple idea but I love the high ceiling high floor analogy - I hadn’t thought of it that way- cheers


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[calder_daddy]

To be fair, at the time I thought Fogarty was a great pick.

I was sucked in by a TAC coach of his who said he was a great young player and will have a career like Kieren Jack

Now I look back it’s more of a Brandon Jack career

 

[calder_daddy]

Yes....he can deliver off the left.....more extensive highlights here....


..

This just proves to me I don’t understand the drafting game.
I watch a 10 minute video like that and can’t see how he’s not top 20 material.

Would love him, we need some excitement and flare.
You need players like that in your team that play on instinct

 

[Turbocat]

This just proves to me I don’t understand the drafting game.
I watch a 10 minute video like that and can’t see how he’s not top 20 material.

Would love him, we need some excitement and flare.
You need players like that in your team that play on instinct

I look at these guys now and wonder.

How much of what he is doing is repeatable at afl level. Its highly unlikely that he could just run around players and treat them with contempt because he knows how quick he is. ... In the afl all the opponents will be bigger and quicker and tactically aware.

Occasionally you see players that can an they are elite.

Whats his work rate like when he doesn't have the ball. 95% of the game is what you do when not in posession.

When someone has always had such an advantage over opponents... how hard has he had to work to succeed? There are elements of his game that remind me of what Malcom Rosas doing to opponents.

 

[catempire]

I think it lines up pretty neatly with the previous comment I posted tbh, where he says 'the philosophy of giving opportunity to young people will extend beyond the AFL to our AFLW team...' etc.

The two statements seem to marry up quite well, and suggest that Hocking will be angling for more opportunity to be provided to those who haven't had a chance to show their wares - even if that is at the expense of succeeding in the present.

That this will be a mantra that he wants spread throughout the club, because we've gone too far in the other direction - to the detriment of some of our younger talent like Kreuger and Clark not getting ample opportunity - which is why they've left. He wants us to swing back more in the other direction. Still being competitive, but actually exposing talent on our list and not just being left with nothing when all our old stars retire.

At least that's how I read it anyway, and that also seems to be all of the messaging coming out of the club too

Kreuger was hampered by injury, not selection policy. Clark by inadequacy. I’m unconvinced by the reflective aspect of Hocking’s comments. What he does from here is up to him.

 

[catempire]

I think I can remember Vdubs like McStay ...I think he was one one of his boys. Id probably would have gone Dunstan or Crouch. Be nice to have looked at Merritt

I think all drafts you can do a “would’ve been nice” exercise a decade later. That’s not really saying much though is it? Even then I think Lang’s draft has proven to be weak and his selection not a howler.

 

[Big little cat]

Personally, I like the idea of picking up Brown and/or Lord. Their pace and ball use particularly from the backline or stoppages would make our transitional play much more dangerous

 

[Turbocat]

I think all drafts you can do a “would’ve been nice” exercise a decade later. That’s not really saying much though is it? Even then I think Lang’s draft has proven to be weak and his selection not a howler.

Not a criticism...just saying , without even looking back, I suspect those would be the players that may have appeal. Lang off a leg screamed undervalued due to the leg injury ..and SW had done that several times.

Everyone knows who we should pick and who we should have picked... yet what info are they making the choice on. In the end the right choice can go pear shaped. And with Lang .. it was 2013... so much has changed. If we want to go back and ask why... they why did we go Hooper with our only P1.. why didn't we pick matera. Didn't that come back and bite us. Always easy to be the monday morning expert.

I put our lack of drafted players recently down to not enough chances early in the que, not specifically a blind spot due to poor judgment or a lack of prep.

 

[catempire]

Not a criticism...just saying , without even looking back, I suspect those would be the players that may have appeal. Lang off a leg screamed undervalued due to the leg injury ..and SW had done that several times.

Everyone knows who we should pick and who we should have picked... yet what info are they making the choice on. In the end the right choice can go pear shaped. And with Lang .. it was 2013... so much has changed. If we want to go back and ask why... they why did we go Hooper with our only P1.. why didn't we pick matera. Didn't that come back and bite us. Always easy to be the monday morning expert.

I put our lack of drafted players recently down to not enough chances early in the que, not specifically a blind spot due to poor judgment or a lack of prep.

Agree. The bolded is why I gave up trying long ago. A few highlight videos or watching some carnival games is not enough.

I’d be interested to see how some of those who have more forceful opinions on these matters over the years have fared. My bet is their strike rate Would be much worse than even the mediocre AFL recruiters.

 

[bombersboy]

I think it lines up pretty neatly with the previous comment I posted tbh, where he says 'the philosophy of giving opportunity to young people will extend beyond the AFL to our AFLW team...' etc.

The two statements seem to marry up quite well, and suggest that Hocking will be angling for more opportunity to be provided to those who haven't had a chance to show their wares - even if that is at the expense of succeeding in the present.

That this will be a mantra that he wants spread throughout the club, because we've gone too far in the other direction - to the detriment of some of our younger talent like Kreuger and Clark not getting ample opportunity - which is why they've left. He wants us to swing back more in the other direction. Still being competitive, but actually exposing talent on our list and not just being left with nothing when all our old stars retire.

At least that's how I read it anyway, and that also seems to be all of the messaging coming out of the club too

Krueger may prove to be a loss but the only time he may have warranted a couple of extra games was last year and then at full strength he was always the one who would miss out. In the long term I don't think Clark will be a big loss. He will prove to be an average to good AFL player.