Rumour GFC 2024 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt 1

[CatToTheFuture]

Dempsey getting recognition.

6 going with Dempsey
2 Wardlaw
1 each Mckercher and Sanders

No Harley, no Darcy: Our experts tip the AFL Rising Star winner

AFL.com.au's reporters make the call on the 2024 AFL Rising Star winner after Harley Reid and Sam Darcy's bans

www.afl.com.au

 

[cats_09]

Dempsey getting recognition.

6 going with Dempsey
2 Wardlaw
1 each Mckercher and Sanders

No Harley, no Darcy: Our experts tip the AFL Rising Star winner

AFL.com.au's reporters make the call on the 2024 AFL Rising Star winner after Harley Reid and Sam Darcy's bans

www.afl.com.au

He needs to keep playing a similar role to what he did on the weekend - starting up forward and working up the ground, rather than starting on the wing & occasionally pushing forward

 

[ShaunWDT]

He needs to keep playing a similar role to what he did on the weekend - starting up forward and working up the ground, rather than starting on the wing & occasionally pushing forward

Hes way better as a high half forward that can be dangerous around goals, wing he just gets lost in transition all the time and absolutely burned

 

[CHAWKTS]

Hes way better as a high half forward that can be dsngerous around goals, wing he just gets lost in transition all the time and absolutely burned

I agree. In particular about not being used enough. Even in first qtr on weekend he ran 4.4km and was open many many times and not used. Only 3 touches I think. Then Henry got subbed and Dempsey played forward and had Impact (still ran 11km for the other 3km but seemed to get involved more). 13 contested possessions which is easier forward then wing.

I assume what they liked about him wing was his defensive running. He fills holes and makes oppo change ball movement. But I think scott said yesterday or today that his game makes it hard for them not to use him forward more…

 

[moond0g]

There are different ways to build a list. If you are always waiting for the perfect player to fit your exact needs you end up with nothing OR you overpay for that player because they become an obsession.

Call me crazy, but I am all for picking up players who make our list better and will help us win games. Zurhaar is definitely a player that will improve our list. And he likely has more upside in the right environment than just about any other possible recruit out there.

I don’t think he should be our only target, and there is no reason why we couldn’t target him and a midfielder.

Put it this way, if I had the choice between signing zurhaar on an acceptable deal or committing big $$ and long years to a bulldogs midfielder who has been out of form for 2 years, coming off a knee reconstruction and with documented off field issues, well I would take zurhaar every day.

Regardless of whether he is a midfielder or not.

Im reluctant to get him mainly because he’s inconsistent. But also I think there’s merit in saying a midfielder should be our main priority.

But the other point is that the way we approached the draft last year is not a sustainable way of building a list. We had 3 of the last 7 picks in the draft. With the age of our list we’ll probably be doing to same over the next couple of years unless we get some FA in. So I think you can make the argument that we just need to get someone semi capable in via FA otherwise we’ll be filling our list with kids from the wrong end of the draft.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Im reluctant to get him mainly because he’s inconsistent. But also I think there’s merit in saying a midfielder should be our main priority.

But the other point is that the way we approached the draft last year is not a sustainable way of building a list. We had 3 of the last 7 picks in the draft. With the age of our list we’ll probably be doing to same over the next couple of years unless we get some FA in. So I think you can make the argument that we just need to get someone semi capable in via FA otherwise we’ll be filling our list with kids from the wrong end of the draft.

I dunno that it's not sustainable. The reason most of those picks are late was because we traded for Bruhn and Henry. Plus, there's a kid we picked up with one of those that I have a particularly good feeling about

 

[cats_09]

I dunno that it's not sustainable. The reason most of those picks are late was because we traded for Bruhn and Henry. Plus, there's a kid we picked up with one of those that I have a particularly good feeling about

AFL draft convention - the use of late picks in the draft isn't sustainable and you need to look at high end talent...

Geelong since 2007 at the national draft - let's have focus on the 3rd round & beyond
- 3rd round picks: Allen Christensen & Jake Kolodjashnij

- 4th round picks: Gryan Miers

- 5th round picks: Jed Bews & Sam Menegola


Bugger that, let's move to the rookie draft instead:
- James Podsiadly, Jack Henry, Zach Guthrie, Tom Atkins & Bradley Close

And who cares if they have no AFL background:
- Mark Blicavs & Mark O'Connor


The above are just a selection of the picks we've had since 2007 who've gone on to play in a Geelong premiership or played 100+ games for the club


It may not be the approach you want to take year in & year out, to focus only on later picks, but there is talent available with later selections - then the focus turns to the club environment & it's development of it's players

And we seem to go pretty ok with the development of players selected outside of the accepted convention of where you need to be drafting players to find that talent

 

[Biggy_Boy]

AFL draft convention - the use of late picks in the draft isn't sustainable and you need to look at high end talent...

Geelong since 2007 at the national draft - let's have focus on the 3rd round & beyond
- 3rd round picks: Allen Christensen & Jake Kolodjashnij

- 4th round picks: Gryan Miers

- 5th round picks: Jed Bews & Sam Menegola


Bugger that, let's move to the rookie draft instead:
- James Podsiadly, Jack Henry, Zach Guthrie, Tom Atkins & Bradley Close

And who cares if they have no AFL background:
- Mark Blicavs & Mark O'Connor


The above are just a selection of the picks we've had since 2007 who've gone on to play in a Geelong premiership or played 100+ games for the club


It may not be the approach you want to take year in & year out, to focus only on later picks, but there is talent available with later selections - then the focus turns to the club environment & it's development of it's players

And we seem to go pretty ok with the development of players selected outside of the accepted convention of where you need to be drafting players to find that talent

Decent players, but since 2007 is a very large sample size, so you'd expect to see hits. Some did play in flags or were fine players for a while, but also not a lot of absolute premium players there who you could build a club around. We did well with them because (a) we were able to trade in those absolute guns rather than draft them, and (b) we already had some of those premium players there who had been drafted with high picks (such as Selwood) or should have been (such as Hawkins).

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Decent players, but since 2007 is a very large sample size, so you'd expect to see hits. Some did play in flags or were fine players for a while, but also not a lot of absolute premium players there who you could build a club around. We did well with them because (a) we were able to trade in those absolute guns rather than draft them, and (b) we already had some of those premium players there who had been drafted with high picks (such as Selwood) or should have been (such as Hawkins).

Yeah but my thoughts are the opposite entirely. You build a premiership list by nailing the Rookie Draft or the late picks.

Richmond's breakthrough 2017 was built on guys like Lambert, Short from the Rookie Draft. Broad and Butler were pick 67s, Houli a pick 42. Then try imagine Melbourne winning a premiership without mature ager Bailey Fritsch. Harmes, Hunt, Tom McDonald, all late picks.

The top end of the draft is scrutinised so much it's hard to have any kind of advantage in it, but you still get some pretty random outcomes.

 

[moond0g]

AFL draft convention - the use of late picks in the draft isn't sustainable and you need to look at high end talent...

Geelong since 2007 at the national draft - let's have focus on the 3rd round & beyond
- 3rd round picks: Allen Christensen & Jake Kolodjashnij

- 4th round picks: Gryan Miers

- 5th round picks: Jed Bews & Sam Menegola


Bugger that, let's move to the rookie draft instead:
- James Podsiadly, Jack Henry, Zach Guthrie, Tom Atkins & Bradley Close

And who cares if they have no AFL background:
- Mark Blicavs & Mark O'Connor


The above are just a selection of the picks we've had since 2007 who've gone on to play in a Geelong premiership or played 100+ games for the club


It may not be the approach you want to take year in & year out, to focus only on later picks, but there is talent available with later selections - then the focus turns to the club environment & it's development of it's players

And we seem to go pretty ok with the development of players selected outside of the accepted convention of where you need to be drafting players to find that talent

I’m not denying we’ve had success in the latter parts of the draft. But over 18 years you would expect us to have had some hits. You can just as easily make a list of players that have been picked in the first 2 rounds (Hawkins, Selwood, CGuthrie, Duncan) or brought in via trades (Danger, Cameron) or FA (Smith) and say we wouldn’t have had the success eve had without nailing those. Obviously we need both.

But more directly to my point, would you like us to replicate what we did last year and take 3 of the last 7 picks in the national draft on a consistent basis? I would not.

 

[PzBlinky]

Decent players, but since 2007 is a very large sample size, so you'd expect to see hits. Some did play in flags or were fine players for a while, but also not a lot of absolute premium players there who you could build a club around. We did well with them because (a) we were able to trade in those absolute guns rather than draft them, and (b) we already had some of those premium players there who had been drafted with high picks (such as Selwood) or should have been (such as Hawkins).

Therein lies the rub that comes with following Geelong Football Club. Many of us (myself included) get annoyed/frustrated/angry when the team's playing like rubbish and we don't seem to have the type of player who can drag us across the line like Selwood or Danger (still in great touch when he's not injured, but can't rely on him).

But getting access to those premium players means taking the hit and finishing bottom 6 for at least 1, if not 2-3 seasons. And the club seems philosophically opposed to that, which means we've had to rely on Wells and co. making better use out of those late picks than perhaps other clubs would (not that other clubs can't do the same).

So not a question for you specifically, but would us fans tolerate or accept a couple of seasons* down the bottom to get access to that type of player - which is still a roll of the dice - and the chance to make a really strong flag push 4-5 years later?

I don't think that approach is necessarily any better than what we're doing, but perhaps natural attrition will take that question out of our hands soon enough anyway.


* Obviously, bottom 6 for the next couple of years would be a disaster with Tasmania coming in, but I'm not factoring that in here.

 

[D BRIDGE]

* Obviously, bottom 6 for the next couple of years would be a disaster with Tasmania coming in, but I'm not factoring that in here.

All the more reason to really cough up some $$$ and get in the race for high-level free agents.

There's not much point trying to save our $$$ whilst finishing low, only to not get the top draft picks because of Tassie.

 

[PzBlinky]

All the more reason to really cough up some $$$ and get in the race for high-level free agents.

There's not much point trying to save our $$$ whilst finishing low, only to not get the top draft picks because of Tassie.

Agree - to a point. I'm not a fan of bringing anyone who isn't going to make a material difference or not fit the team dynamics just to hit the salary cap. Smith is pretty much the only one I think suits the bill this year, and perhaps LDU next year (though not sure who else is a free agent come end of 2025). Probably stating the obvious but sometimes it feels names get thrown around that make you wonder just how much of a help they'd be.

 

[dazbroncos]

Therein lies the rub that comes with following Geelong Football Club. Many of us (myself included) get annoyed/frustrated/angry when the team's playing like rubbish and we don't seem to have the type of player who can drag us across the line like Selwood or Danger (still in great touch when he's not injured, but can't rely on him).

But getting access to those premium players means taking the hit and finishing bottom 6 for at least 1, if not 2-3 seasons. And the club seems philosophically opposed to that, which means we've had to rely on Wells and co. making better use out of those late picks than perhaps other clubs would (not that other clubs can't do the same).

So not a question for you specifically, but would us fans tolerate or accept a couple of seasons* down the bottom to get access to that type of player - which is still a roll of the dice - and the chance to make a really strong flag push 4-5 years later?

I don't think that approach is necessarily any better than what we're doing, but perhaps natural attrition will take that question out of our hands soon enough anyway.


* Obviously, bottom 6 for the next couple of years would be a disaster with Tasmania coming in, but I'm not factoring that in here.

but the teams going down...North, Hawks, Saints, Tigers, Demons....... Doggies, have they really made out like bandits getting Top picks?!?!

Look at how many GWS and GCS have burned thru to get where they are now... Still Flagless after over a decade of help and top end picks.

Im not convinced that the celar dwelling for a few years is the way to get back up.

And as oyu rightly say... its gonna get WAY worse with Tassie coming in hot.

GO Catters

 

[RegHickeyStand]

but the teams going down...North, Hawks, Saints, Tigers, Demons....... Doggies, have they really made out like bandits getting Top picks?!?!

Look at how many GWS and GCS have burned thru to get where they are now... Still Flagless after over a decade of help and top end picks.

Im not convinced that the celar dwelling for a few years is the way to get back up.

And as oyu rightly say... its gonna get WAY worse with Tassie coming in hot.

GO Catters

Yep. Losing is a bad habit, and very tough to break.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Agree - to a point. I'm not a fan of bringing anyone who isn't going to make a material difference or not fit the team dynamics just to hit the salary cap. Smith is pretty much the only one I think suits the bill this year, and perhaps LDU next year (though not sure who else is a free agent come end of 2025). Probably stating the obvious but sometimes it feels names get thrown around that make you wonder just how much of a help they'd be.

With names available, sometimes we all try bend the problem to fit an available solution. It's the nature of problem solving. Sometimes we bend it too far.

Agree Smith and throw a offer at LDU next year

 

[Lana]

The choice to go down the ladder isn't really there, you get forced down the ladder. When you hit an early pick right the value of it can stick around for 12-15 years. Think Corey from 2000-2012, Bartel from 2002-2016 and Selwood 2007-2022.
We're riding the end of a wave of these style of recruitments. If timed right the next group hits their peak before the past group hits the wall. Last pre-season Danger called out Holmes as our next superstar. He has gone up a level this year and is still quite young so maybe he'll be good enough lead the next group, remains to be seen but I'm feeling a lot better about it now then I was 6 months ago. We might have the signs of a solid core that can be built around.

Once clubs fill out their core and it matures clubs fill out their role players which are cheaper and easier to recruit. Success is driven by the core group but in finals where everyone has a strong core group, if both teams core groups are firing then it is the role players who can decide the day.

We already have those role players, if we can spend the Danger and Hawkins money on something worth the money (competition wide there is more money then players worth it) then we can add to the core and avoid dropping down the ladder again until the next list crisis (Cameron, Stewart).

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

On Gettable:

• Cats or Hawks in front for Smith
• We're expected to still try and make a play for Clayton Oliver
  10

  Clayton Oliver

  Age

  28

  Ht

  189cm

  Wt

  88kg

  Pos.

  Mid

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  27.8

  5star

  K

  9.5

  4star

  HB

  18.4

  5star

  M

  3.2

  3star

  T

  6.3

  5star

  CL

  6.3

  5star

  D

  25.1

  5star

  K

  11.1

  4star

  HB

  14.0

  5star

  M

  3.6

  4star

  T

  5.6

  5star

  CL

  5.9

  5star

  D

  19.2

  5star

  K

  4.6

  2star

  HB

  14.6

  5star

  M

  2.0

  3star

  T

  4.4

  5star

  CL

  3.8

  5star

  .
• No movement on Stengle's contract.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

On Gettable:

• Cats or Hawks in front for Smith
• We're expected to still try and make a play for Clayton Oliver.
• No movement on Stengle's contract.

Smith or Oliver? Imagine both...

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Smith or Oliver? Imagine both...

If they both said Geelong, I have no idea how we get the deal done under the current system. Oliver would have to be a Grundy packet of chips deal and I don't see Dees doing that in this case.

Bet yeah adding both would be huge for our midfield would go from bottom tier to top tier imo.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

If they both said Geelong, I have no idea how we get the deal done under the current system. Oliver would have to be a Grundy packet of chips deal and I don't see Dees doing that in this case.

Bet yeah adding both would be huge for our midfield would go from bottom tier to top tier imo.

Pretty likely the AFL is going to loosen the restrictions on what you're allowed to trade.

Whether it's the right decision from our POV remains to be seen, but it would give us an avenue to get it done if it's what we want to do.

Of course, there's also the option the Clarry is such a pain in the arse that Melbourne will take anything to get rid of him as long as we pay for the contract.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

If they both said Geelong, I have no idea how we get the deal done under the current system. Oliver would have to be a Grundy packet of chips deal and I don't see Dees doing that in this case.

Bet yeah adding both would be huge for our midfield would go from bottom tier to top tier imo.

They're both a bit different too. I'd be extremely wary of Oliver's contract though.

On the other hand under the new CBA a million a year ain't the highest

 

[sexyhunk]

anyone think LDU an option as a FA year end of next year. less pain in the ass regarding trade negotiations assuming north dont match and salary be similar to smith, oliver ,etc

 

[moond0g]

If they both said Geelong, I have no idea how we get the deal done under the current system. Oliver would have to be a Grundy packet of chips deal and I don't see Dees doing that in this case.

Bet yeah adding both would be huge for our midfield would go from bottom tier to top tier imo.

Think the AFL will let clubs trade first rounders 2 years into the future. So we have 3 to play with at trade time already in that case.

 

[moond0g]

They're both a bit different too. I'd be extremely wary of Oliver's contract though.

On the other hand under the new CBA a million a year ain't the highest

Yeah I'm wary of taking any player on a long term deal where we weren't involved in negotiating the terms in the first instance.