Rumour GFC 2025 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt 2

[Vdubs]

You can make the point without dripping in hyperbole Dubs. Why do you always do this?

I’ve been as high on Brisbane’s list as anyone here, and rate Fletcher highly. He’d still be our third best mid at best.

That still proves your point, but it removes the weird need to just throw an extra 30% on any Geelong related issue.

Putting extra mayo on everything lacks the same objectivity as just pretending we’re the best at everything, too.

Who of our mids do you rate more highly
?Smith, Holmes
Ok- I’ll concede- #3 until he matures

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Lions essentially got 2 number 1 picks, and top 3-5 pick and a top 5 pick for a big handful of picks in the 20s and 30s.
That's the issue.

Ashcroft + ashcroft were both the best player in their respective cohorts.

Has a side making b2b grand finals ever received consecutive no1 picks??

 

[D BRIDGE]

Ashcroft + ashcroft were both the best player in their respective cohorts.

Has a side making b2b grand finals ever received consecutive no1 picks??

And other clubs do not make these teams getting gifted gun kids pay top bidding for them.

Will Ashcroft is and has been BOG in basically every huge game he plays in for his entire life... but no #1 bid when clearly the best kid.

So the lions pocket saved points to continue using on other good players.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

West Coast given assistance by the AFL.

End of R1 draft pick 2025. No requirement to trade.
4 x rookie spots for 2026-28. To be used on NGA/experienced players.

Leaves them with 1, 2 (allen), 15, 19 before FA compensation and academy dilution.

 

[cats_09]

Maybe they've reached out and he's said he's not interested?

I feel like the comments in regards to Trac & Merrett of, "why aren't Geelong chasing player X", has the same ring to it when Grundy was moving on from Collingwood & then Melbourne

Geelong can do all they want to chase players X, Y & Z, but it doesn't mean that all those players will be wanting to move to Geelong

 

[Turbocat]

I know you probably meant this - but just pointing that we got ONE player who played over 300 games from this system. We got selwood because we fell down the ladder in 2006 - exactly as the system should work.

NO .The system as it was … we double dipped. So that is the biggest win we have ever received from the FSon rort.

It has change that often over the years. Johno Brown for example got Brisbane when his father did not even play 100 games. The system as it was then was 50 games. IT changes all the time..

and our win with Hawkins was so great that the brought a change. The change the system after that.

In the system as it is today…. we would have to trade out our R1 pick , take Hawkins and miss on Selwood. Hawkins was rated 1,2 or 3 not much later.

But nearly all our oteh rFSons were not considered R1 picks. There is an argument that Woonough and Blake might be two of the highest rated in draft ..although I doubt GA would have lasted too far out of R1 just on his name..but it was probably the best draft ever ..so who knows.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

And other clubs do not make these teams getting gifted gun kids pay top bidding for them.

Will Ashcroft is and has been BOG in basically every huge game he plays in for his entire life... but no #1 bid when clearly the best kid.

So the lions pocket saved points to continue using on other good players.

All the academy and F/S kids have slipped to varying degrees.

Daicos was clearly the best but slipped to 4! And so was will ashcroft

I think clubs are reluctant to bother that early and want the marketing appeal of “ we got the no1 kid” to tell to their fans as opposed to admitting me came last but got second best. There is a sales element to the fans about it.

The only exception has been JUH, which in hindsight they should have just gone thillthrope.

 

[theGav56]

NO .The system as it was … we double dipped. So that is the biggest win we have ever received from the FSon rort.

It has change that often over the years. Johno Brown for example got Brisbane when his father did not even play 100 games. The system as it was then was 50 games. IT changes all the time..

and our win with Hawkins was so great that the brought a change. The change the system after that.

In the system as it is today…. we would have to trade out our R1 pick , take Hawkins and miss on Selwood. Hawkins was rated 1,2 or 3 not much later.

But nearly all our oteh rFSons were not considered R1 picks. There is an argument that Woonough and Blake might be two of the highest rated in draft ..although I doubt GA would have lasted too far out of R1 just on his name..but it was probably the best draft ever ..so who knows.

Ablett coming through now would have already have spent time in the club's academy developing. They enter the league much better prepared.

 

[stac]

West Coast given assistance by the AFL.

End of R1 draft pick 2025. No requirement to trade.
4 x rookie spots for 2026-28. To be used on NGA/experienced players.

Leaves them with 1, 2 (allen), 15, 19 before FA compensation and academy dilution.

I can see them trading 15, 19 and 51 to GC for 6 giving them 1,2 and 6

and hopefully they take who they want with pick one then go Uwland, Annable, Patterson then Dean with pick two forcing GC, Lions and Blues to fess up.

 

[CatRiot]

What is Jhye Clark's value at the trade table?

 

[And_ROOS]

What is Jhye Clark's value at the trade table?

Showed a bit in those last few games, but hasn't shown enough that a team with a specific need would value him.

Basically steak knives. Showed more than Dean Gore had when we made the Danger trade, but wouldn't amount to much in say, a Curnow trade.

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

I feel like the comments in regards to Trac & Merrett of, "why aren't Geelong chasing player X", has the same ring to it when Grundy was moving on from Collingwood & then Melbourne

Geelong can do all they want to chase players X, Y & Z, but it doesn't mean that all those players will be wanting to move to Geelong

IIRC, Grundy was interested in Geelong, and he did do a tour of the club, but he was offered way more money at Melbourne, so he took that. So, while I agree with the premise of your post, I think you need to account for the fact that some players don't come here because other clubs offer them more money. Hopper is another example. Wanted to come to the cats, but Richmond offered way more money, so that's where he went.

 

[jim boy]

In the system as it is today…. we would have to trade out our R1 pick , take Hawkins and miss on Selwood. Hawkins was rated 1,2 or 3 not much later.

Nah - today's system, we just exchange a whole bunch of late draft picks and get Hawkins and Selwood, cost us less than it did then. However probably find that somehow Hawkins gets on to Sydney's NGA and we miss out.

 

[cats_09]

IIRC, Grundy was interested in Geelong, and he did do a tour of the club, but he was offered way more money at Melbourne, so he took that. So, while I agree with the premise of your post, I think you need to account for the fact that some players don't come here because other clubs offer them more money. Hopper is another example. Wanted to come to the cats, but Richmond offered way more money, so that's where he went.

I'm taking a guess that you're thinking of someone other than Grundy as his move from Collingwood wasn't about him seeking the best deal but rather Collingwood looking to get the bulk of his contract off their books

In early 2020 Grundy signed a 7yr extension at Collingwood worth between $900k & $1 million per season. Like they had done in 2020 when Treloar still had 5 years left on his Collingwood contract, the powers at the club strongly encouraged Grundy to find a new home as they wanted to get a good amount of his money off their books - it's only at the completion of this season that Collingwood has stopped paying a portion of Treloar's salary

When Grundy agreed to the Melbourne move, Collingwood agreed to keep paying approx $300k of his salary. Then when Brodie opted to move on from Melbourne to Sydney, the Demons got out of any contractual obligation with Grundy, while Collingwood are still forking out $300k of his annual salary and will continue to do so until he next comes out of contract after the 2027 dream


Grundy never toured Geelong as we aren't the type of city he's looking for - it was well reported that Grundy was after that inner city, hipster coffee loving city which is why he opted for Melbourne initial. Maybe he gets some of that same experience in Sydney

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

Grundy never toured Geelong as we aren't the type of city he's looking for

He did. I read about it back then. But we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[iameviljez]

It has change that often over the years. Johno Brown for example got Brisbane when his father did not even play 100 games. The system as it was then was 50 games. IT changes all the time..

and our win with Hawkins was so great that the brought a change. The change the system after that.

While that's true, it has also been very much driven by the clubs wising up as to what they could do with their father-son picks.

If you have unfettered access to a given player at draft time, it's in your interests to put time and training into them. Collingwood does this and has reaped rewards; the Northern clubs can do it through their academies. 20 years ago, there wasn't any such program AFAIK.

 

[iameviljez]

I'm taking a guess that you're thinking of someone other than Grundy as his move from Collingwood wasn't about him seeking the best deal but rather Collingwood looking to get the bulk of his contract off their books

In early 2020 Grundy signed a 7yr extension at Collingwood worth between $900k & $1 million per season. Like they had done in 2020 when Treloar still had 5 years left on his Collingwood contract, the powers at the club strongly encouraged Grundy to find a new home as they wanted to get a good amount of his money off their books - it's only at the completion of this season that Collingwood has stopped paying a portion of Treloar's salary

When Grundy agreed to the Melbourne move, Collingwood agreed to keep paying approx $300k of his salary. Then when Brodie opted to move on from Melbourne to Sydney, the Demons got out of any contractual obligation with Grundy, while Collingwood are still forking out $300k of his annual salary and will continue to do so until he next comes out of contract after the 2027 dream


Grundy never toured Geelong as we aren't the type of city he's looking for - it was well reported that Grundy was after that inner city, hipster coffee loving city which is why he opted for Melbourne initial. Maybe he gets some of that same experience in Sydney

He did. I read about it back then. But we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Nah, my memory aligns with Blakey's. He certainly was interested in Geelong but the money meant he'd have to take a haircut.

 

[patience]

Just on this...

We live in the City of Casey and my son was invited to Melbourne's NGA u15s team earlier this year. He made the team, despite being 13 years old and only having played 1 season of footy for Narre Warren JFC. He was invited down under the same criteria as listed above but when we got there I saw a lot of kids who didn't seem to fit. For the record, my Dad is Aboriginal & Mum is white and I look Greek/Italian. My wife is Australian Born Chinese, so my son is actually half Chinese and looks it. But he got invited due to his 'Aboriginality'.

Turns out, Melbourne uses the criteria listed above to invite a lot of kids down and expose them to the game, but also to find talent. This way they balance out the numbers to make up the teams. My son played alongside Brad Greene's son, who hardly fits the criteria above. We got to chat with him one day and he surprised me by telling me his son was there for the NGA. That's when I realised Melbourne have a team they use as a foundation then top it up with talented kids they find through this program. They found some ripper Sudanese boys. Tall and very gifted athletes.

A lot of boys who attended were great footballers but were cut because "you can't have a team of midfielders" as one assistant coach said to me. My son wasn't the best footballer, but he was the best small, lockdown defender with good speed, clean hands (he rarely fumbles) and competitive attitude (think of a smaller Tom Atkins but faster who can play in the back pocket).

I think the NGA concept is good, even if it is run differently to what I originally envisioned. It gives a lot of local kids the opportunity to experience some good coaching and to play alongside really good footballers when they otherwise wouldn't be able to.

I just wish my son could play for Geelong's NGA

Having read this I just wish we could have supporter father/sons. Best wishes to your son.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

NO .The system as it was … we double dipped. So that is the biggest win we have ever received from the FSon rort.

It has change that often over the years. Johno Brown for example got Brisbane when his father did not even play 100 games. The system as it was then was 50 games. IT changes all the time..

and our win with Hawkins was so great that the brought a change. The change the system after that.

In the system as it is today…. we would have to trade out our R1 pick , take Hawkins and miss on Selwood. Hawkins was rated 1,2 or 3 not much later.

But nearly all our oteh rFSons were not considered R1 picks. There is an argument that Woonough and Blake might be two of the highest rated in draft ..although I doubt GA would have lasted too far out of R1 just on his name..but it was probably the best draft ever ..so who knows.

That's a fallacy, all we would have done was trade out some later picks or fringe player/s for points then collated a small handful of third round picks to match whatever bid came for him, and kept our first rounder to use on Selwood.
It's exactly what the lions have done and will do again this draft.
What we likely would have missed out on was anyone we picked up after aside those 2.

 

[Boxhead_31]

And other clubs do not make these teams getting gifted gun kids pay top bidding for them.

Will Ashcroft is and has been BOG in basically every huge game he plays in for his entire life... but no #1 bid when clearly the best kid.

So the lions pocket saved points to continue using on other good players.

Same thing with Nick Daicos.
Media all said you can't bid on him because it devalues the No1 pick in the draft

 

[Oisin_the_Goat]

And other clubs do not make these teams getting gifted gun kids pay top bidding for them.

Will Ashcroft is and has been BOG in basically every huge game he plays in for his entire life... but no #1 bid when clearly the best kid.

So the lions pocket saved points to continue using on other good players.

Hopefully, eventually that team will see a major salary cap squeeze which will balance things out.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Wilkie stays at St.Kilda.

 

[D BRIDGE]

Wilkie getting a pay boost from the aints was the most obvious thing ever... Called it the moment the Dog's showed interest.

Good on the Doggies for making them cough up more.

Saints also would have coughed up much more than expected for NWM, Windy and now Wilkie.

Not to mention silly coin for TDK, Aleer getting overs, Silvagni getting overs and Flanders looking like being around 1m per year.

I'm sure they will enjoy some relief when they ship Marshall over to us.

Geezz maybe they'll need him out so bad they'll take a couple of 2nd rounders.

Everyone who has a thing to do with the Aints has their hand out!

#fortheloveoftheclub

 

[jim boy]

What we likely would have missed out on was anyone we picked up after aside those 2.

Nathan Djekurra and Simon Hogan? - no disrespect intended but players like that dont turn the needle.

 

[thejester]

Thanks cats_09 for that info. It is very helpful.

I guess my question remains the same for NGA’s and northern academies:

Why are they run by the clubs for their own club gain, rather than being run by the AFL for the betterment of the game overall?

I am totally onboard with the AFL splashing a lot of cash into underserviced markets to encourage young players to have pathways into the game that they otherwise would not have. But this needs to be AFL run, not run by the clubs.

Why have the AFL outsourced this?

I think for both, but moreso the northern academies, it's because the AFL thinks that the uncertainty of the draft - which no other Australian sport has - is a deterrent to parents, so having a pathway that ties them to a club is good. IIRC the original pitch on northern academies came from the Swans and used Patty Mills as an example of someone who chose college basketball over footy because of the uncertainty of the draft (or being drafted at all). This always struck me as a bit of a problematic example, but there we are. It'd be interesting to know how they actually work outside the bullshit - clearly they are succeeding in the sense that there are a lot more talented Queenslanders in particular entering the system, but how much is that just a function of more money going into the system? Tom Green had some interesting stuff on this in an interview with TGC this year, said he played union and footy growing up but ultimately chose footy seemingly independent of the Giants, who he reckons he barely had any contact with (despite being an academy product). How many academy guys are coming from traditional footy areas in non-footy states (like Canberra or Southport) rather than non-footy areas (like Heeney in Newcastle?)