I'm pretty sure the thread is about wishing Lyons luck and what a stupid decision it was to trade him. There is no denying the latter.
Good luck Jarryd Lyons
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No other club in the afl was interested at all.. even after a half decent season. We tried to lowball cause we dont rate him. Hes doing well at gc cause after ablett... their inside mid talent is non existent. No other team was interested whatsoever.
Maybe he was worth more and our list managers are crap (probably) but i honestly dont think our team would be better with him in it.
Kerridge got 35 on the weekend... no one here complaining about him. I actually rate kerridge higher than lyons. Be nice to have a real tagger.
Yeah this seems to be the typical defence.
"Hindsight" is to be wise after the event when there was no chance of predicting the outcome.
With Lyons this isn't the case. There was a lot of evidence to suggest he was talented enough to hold his own in the crows midfield. I'm talking last season's stats. This season is another story.
The problem with our list managers is that they didnt do what they were paid to do. Their job is to improve our list. get value for money when trading, pick best players available. etc. Well this time they got it wrong. to the benefit of Gold Coast.
Many who had originally praised Lyons surprising improvement (well surprising to them) in 2016 were quick to sink in the boots when the club offered up what must have been a very insulting contract considering his level of improvement. This opened the floodgates for the anti Lyons bandwagon. What amazes me now is the reaction to Jarryds 2017 season and the lengths some posters will go to to justify their lack of judgment. Some of the rubbish I have read over the last few months has been eye opening.
No club can afford to be giving away quality midfielders for a 3rd round speculative pick. especially one heading towards a final against the midfields of Sydney or Geelong.
Sloane wasn't rated at all in his first attempt. Didnt go until the mid 40s second time around.
Atkins went much higher. Lyons in comparison actually rated better than both if you want to get technical.
Greenwood has potential no question. but seriously he has played 6 games. averaging a dozen kicks a week. He no doubt will improve but you really need to look at Lyons stats this year. There is no comparison.
Remember Lyon played 20 games last year, we the supporters didn't need hindsight. He demonstrated he had a game, his final wasn't great and I guess that mattered.
Lyons was never appreciated by the coaching staff, someone's assessment of his game was always on the more negative side than positive( green vest record holder).
Lyons actual performances now make me question some of the coaching staffs other assessment eg. Scott Thompson selection on Friday night and his re-signing for this year.
Remember Greenwood was a rookie project and not on the main list at the start of this year.
Sure he's been great and deserves his place but I can't fathom that at last year list management meeting Greenwoods name was being talked up as a big bodied logical replacement for Lyon. Not the next year anyway.
Greenwood form just came on quicker than anticipated and his performance forced us to pick him and he'll make a difference but we got a touch lucky.
I really think they just undervalued Lyon and he would be a handy player with us now no question.
Lyons was never appreciated by the coaching staff, someone's assessment of his game was always on the more negative side than positive( green vest record holder).
Lyons actual performances now make me question some of the coaching staffs other assessment eg. Scott Thompson selection on Friday night and his re-signing for this year.
Remember Greenwood was a rookie project and not on the main list at the start of this year.
Sure he's been great and deserves his place but I can't fathom that at last year list management meeting Greenwoods name was being talked up as a big bodied logical replacement for Lyon. Not the next year anyway.
Greenwood form just came on quicker than anticipated and his performance forced us to pick him and he'll make a difference but we got a touch lucky.
I really think they just undervalued Lyon and he would be a handy player with us now no question.
Incorrect. Blues in 2015 were very keen and keen again in 2016 but played stubborn due to Gibbs situation. Saints and North Melbourne also were interested. Another club as well which I can't recall at present.
The Gold Coast offer had been put to him well before trade week began and it was the best contract offer of the 3 or so that he had. For most of the trade period he was still hoping the Crows would budge a bit so he could stay here. Once it was obvious the Carlton deal was not going anywhere and that the Crows were not moving he officially asked to be traded - I believe this was in the last day or two of the trade period. In effect because of GCS's superior offer (and him and his partner liking the GC) and the lateness it really made the trade between GCS and AFC the only feasible option which meant the AFC were over a barrel a bit.
He could have arguably gotten himself (and potentially the AFC) a better deal if he'd asked to be traded prior to the trade period but as I mentioned he was holding out hope that the Crows would move either the term or the amount.
These are facts.
Perhaps Mackay would have been dropped earlier if we had Hampton in the shed.
You're an idiot of you think that you have the required inside information to know whether Lyons was choosing between multiple offers or not.
Quite a few, including me, posted that we got unders for Kerridge and that like Lyons, was underrated by our coaches and missed many an opportunity to be selected because we continually went with the VB's, Dmac's and Wright's of the world.
But please cease with your fantasy that Lyons only had 1 suitor, I could equally fantasise that he took a while to announce his new club because he was weighing up 17 other offers, including the one we had on the table. See, anyone can make up bullshit to suit a pre-conceived and poorly thought out belief.
Remember my post originally stated from saying that if he stayed he would be in our midfield in reply to comments about him not making the side.
I then added that I believe his move to Gold Coast could prove to be the best thing for both Lyons and the Crows. I was looking at it differently. And stated my reason for this. And Yes I was looking for a Football discussion on the topic which I thank you as you are one of the few that will put up a discussion.
Most new Lyons could be a good player, more so after 2016, He went 1 further this year and proved it to most. there no doubting that.
Would I like him in Crows colours today yes but based on what he has done this year. End of last year if I had to choose which mids to move on and which ones to keep. With open list he would stay, unfortunately, the Crows did not have an open list and he was in the Firing Line.
As last year our inside midfield had a sameness about it. with M Crouch, Sloane, Douglas, Wigg, Gore all contracted, then Thommo, Lyons, Grigg only 3 coming out of contract, Thommo had one advantage 1.22% veteran allowance and his coaching contract. And yes we can go on for days about that, Grigg had nothing, Lyons had the ability base on 2016 to shop himself around for a better pay packet which he did a very good move which has been proven. have not included MacKay, Knight, CC as they had 2 advantages contracted and Pace and it seems the club seem to be chasing Pace.
But I have also learnt that Newton 3rd can be applied to the AFL, for every action, there is a reaction, and I was trying to look at both sides of him going and the reaction ie Hampton/ Greenwood as if he stays he would be in their spot because this year he is a better player than most of our Midfield. I did not harp on the benefits he got by going as it pretty obvious to all
Almost agree that or when Knight got Injured, But with the Love MacKay seemed to enjoy I do wonder. As Hampton has pace and toughness I am hoping that by finals time that move may still happen. Due to Greenwood inclusion.
But in a way and to keep on track about Lyons I was wondering if we would have seen Greenwood in the midfield if Lyons was playing for us.
I have no doubt he would be playing but that would have been in Beech's place.
They may have undervalued Lyons no arguments there, but I also believe that we are missing part of the equation, The Club was looking for an improvement a point of difference in our midfield, And as proven by several clubs noted to have the best midfield, that bigger bodied Mid is an important part. The one part we did not have last year. one of the reasons we got smashed in the midfield when it counted. This year I believe we have changed that unfortunately, we needed to grow our own and Brad Crouch, CEY, Hampton and Greenwood were the Prime candidates, 2 off who only moved into the midfield structures this year.
I don't want to see an inside Midfield like Last year for the Crows, I wanted to see an improvement. or at least an attempt to make improvements. One of the reasons I not happy with Thommo inclusion on Sat it was a midfield with that sameness feel about it one that got smashed on SAT and Last year. Full of small mids with no pace. I want a couple of Big bodied Mids pushing hard, we look better when we Have Brad Crouch and Greenwood/Hampton in the side.
I also believe that we had one eye on 2017 and one eye on 2018. with a medium 185cm Midfield coming into the side this trade period.
Again maybe Lyons, move to the Gold Coast will turn out to be good for both parties.
MileraMagic
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Thanks for the insight.
Nice having you around the forums again!
I agree that its definitely worked out well for Lyons. He's in a team that appreciates his talents, us that remains to be seen.
I'm just angry at who makes these judgement calls. You don't need to be Einstein to see a good 25 year old has more upside than a slow 34 year old as a player.
With Thommo I believe the part of his Payment that relates to the Cap is less than what they Offered Lyons. So I don't blame him for Lyons leaving he did not take up too much cap space. At that time the Crows did have Cap space and an open spot on the List, Believe the Cap space has now/will be at 100% with some Front loaded Contracts.
If the anyone to blame it stems back to Tippett, and those parties involved, along some of the same people being forced/stupid to sign Players to longer contracts than they deserved.
Also have to place some Blame on Pyke as his wish list to the List management team was for size and Pace. Sometimes tough and hard to explain decisions need to be made. Some work some don't.
The Vince/M Crouch work for Both the Players and the Club. Will this one work. In 10 to 12 weeks will have a better picture.
At Gold Coast he is playing Matt Crouch's role. Something he did for us at times last year.
We move him on and M Crouch has his break out year as he can now play his natural role for far longer periods.
Both guys sre having great seasons as they have the role they are suited to full time. But who would you rather have?
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We move him on and M Crouch has his break out year as he can now play his natural role for far longer periods.
Both guys sre having great seasons as they have the role they are suited to full time. But who would you rather have?
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Read the conversation from the start, The whole thing was a what if Lyons stay scenarios,
So stop trying to act like the big boy you are not and Grow up little man.
But must admit you surprised me I thought you would have commented a few days ago your slipping I see.
I'd rather have Lyons and have traded Douglas.
People are still understating Lyons - he's not a pure inside mid, he was handy on the outside (as per the meters gained I posted), and he's a regular goal kicker.
The Crows ****ed this right up - no
Excuses.
Thats a tough choice.
In 2016 Lyons moved from 373rd AFL ranked player to number 91 by years end. Since moving to GC he has advanced to 33 after round 16.
In 2016 Matt was ranked 351st in round 1 and finished the season 134th. Currently he is ranked 63.
Matt has improved a great deal in that time but Lyons last 2 seasons have shown even greater improvement. I think a list manager would have a tough time choosing between them but Jarryd does have the ability to move forward as he did with the Crows on occasion. He is also handy around goals as we saw in Ablett's 300th. He would probably suit Pyke's game plan a little more than Matt who is a pure mid. They have played the same number of games give or take a few but Matt is 3 years younger.
The hardest thing to predict is how far each player can go in their AFL career. Jarryd is ahead at the moment ranking wise but Matt will have an opportunity to improve on this in the coming finals while Jarryd will be preparing for next season.
Good analysis...
Then you remember it's irrelevant - because we didn't have to choose one or the other
Then you remember it's irrelevant - because we didn't have to choose one or the other
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Strange statement given Matt Crouch was re-signed after Don Pyke's appointment and clearly Pyke would have had input into the decision to trade Lyons.
Edit : And he did have a full season to form his opinion on both players re his game plan..
It was Pyke who during pre season demanded more flexibility from the squad as part of the club's organic growth.
This was well documented. Based on this Lyons would have been ideal for Pykes game plan.
The trade itself had nothing to do with Pyke. It was not instigated by the club. Lyons requested it.
Red mist
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I'm shitty about it. I hope he has a great career.
