Greatest allrounder

[Slax]

Following on from some drunken debate on Saturday during the rain it is time to put up (probably again) the debate about who is the best allrounder of all time.

Here are the candidates
Jacques Kallis - 156 tests
Batting - 12,788 runs @ 57.35 Bowling - 280 wickets @ 32.63 Fielding 188 catches

Garry Sobers - 93 Tests
Batting - 8,032 @ 57.78 Bowling - 235 @ 34.03 Fielding 109

Imran Khan - 88 Tests
Batting - 3,807 @ 37.69 Bowling - 362 @ 22.81 Fielding 28

Kapil Dev - 131 tests
Batting - 5,248 @ 31.05 Bowling - 434 @ 29.64 Fielding 64

Richard Hadlee - 86 tests
Batting - 3,124 @ 27.16 Bowling - 431 @ 22.29 Fielding 39

Ian Botham - 102 Tests
Batting - 5,200 @ 33.54 Bowling - 383 @ 28.40 Fielding 120

Keith Miller - 55 Tests
Batting - 2,958 @ 36.97 Bowling - 170 @ 22.97 Fielding 38

Shane Watson - 35 tests
Batting - 2,328 @ 37.54 Bowling - 59 @ 28.91 Fielding 25

 

[aflcliche]

Yep, surely Shane Watson

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

I never had the chance to see a few of them but, statistically, it is hard to go past Kallis.

 

[TassieSaint]

From my time Kallis definitely.

But from what I've heard Sobers was a much better bowler than would show up in stats and could bowl fast, medium, off spin, leg spin pretty much anything he wanted.

So combined with his batting and fielding I think that would make him the best all rounder in the true sense of the word.

 

[ioppolo]

It's a shame I wasn't around during Sobers time, I'd have to say Kallis from what I've seen.

 

[Black Diamond]

Kallis is the best player of my lifetime, period.

I voted Sobers though. I'd have Kallis ahead as a bowler, but Sobers' penchant for massive scores puts him ahead as a batsman. As an aside, my father was there when Sobers hit 250 odd against Australia playing for the World XI.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Sobers by the length of the straight. Someone once said of Sobers that he was totally unaware the game was meant to be difficult. That pretty much sums him up.

Nobody who saw Sobers play would even think about voting for anyone else.

 

[aflcliche]

IMO opinion it is hard to be definitive for several reasons. If we consider batting allrounders, then I would say clearly Sobers. I believe he was more of a frontline bowler than Kallis too. He would make anyones world 11 as a batsman alone, whereas Kallis wouldn't. However, in terms of bowling allrounders, Imran Khan is my choice. But then, consider the period of their careers. Botham was unbelievable at the start and then fell away, whereas Imran was exceptional towards the end of his career. Miller's record stands for itself and by all reports was an amazing player but did not play as many tests as Khan even though their records are near identical. So how can we rate one over the other? Especially since most of us have not seen Miller play.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Channel 9 (Nicholas, Barry Richards (IIRC) and Chappelli) discussed this at tea yesterday. Both Richards and Chappelli named Sir Garfield Sobers as their no. 1 all-rounder of all time, very emphatically.

Chappell said that as a boy, his dad used to take him to Adelaide Oval and his dad told Chappell (presumably Greg and Trevor as well) to watch how Miller played.

One player who BF always forgets in these types of discussions is Richie Benaud. Played 63 tests and scored 2201 runs in 97 innings with a top score of 122 (three centuries and nine 50s) at an average of 24.45 runs/innings. He also took 248 wickets at an average of 27.03 runs/wicket. Certainly wouldn't be the greatest all-rounder of all time, but his career should be recognised more than just being the face of Nine's cricket coverage.

 

[POBT]

I reckon Imran often gets overlooked. IIRC, in the last 10 years of his career, he averaged around 50 with the bat and 19 with the ball. That is phenomenal. He'd be in my top 3.

 

[aflcliche]

Channel 9 (Nicholas, Barry Richards (IIRC) and Chappelli) discussed this at tea yesterday. Both Richards and Chappelli named Sir Garfield Sobers as their no. 1 all-rounder of all time, very emphatically.

Chappell said that as a boy, his dad used to take him to Adelaide Oval and his dad told Chappell (presumably Greg and Trevor as well) to watch how Miller played.

One player who BF always forgets in these types of discussions is Richie Benaud. Played 63 tests and scored 2201 runs in 97 innings with a top score of 122 (three centuries and nine 50s) at an average of 24.45 runs/innings. He also took 248 wickets at an average of 27.03 runs/wicket. Certainly wouldn't be the greatest all-rounder of all time, but his career should be recognised more than just being the face of Nine's cricket coverage.

I agree. Apparently was an innovative captain too who introduced a new kind of culture and team spirit.

 

[Wickzki]

Steve Waugh

 

[DrVanNostrand]

Looks like the award has already been handed out...

 

[Gough]

Botham would be in this conversation if Brearley had captained England more than he did.

 

[Outshined]

I'd go Kallis purely because I've grown up watching him and he's head and shoulders above any of the more contemporary all-rounders. Some of the older guys on here might be more inclined to go with Sobers though. His figures speak for themselves.

 

[Plugger35]

Vettori always tends to get overlooked when talking all rounders but he has just about been NZ's best bowler and batsman the past 10 years or so.

Hard to go past Kallis for modern day all rounders though, his stats are incredible.

Hadlee, Botham, Kapil Dev and Imran Khan were all gun all rounders and great to watch as a kid.

Never saw Sobers play unfortunately but most people that saw him rate him as the best all rounder of all time so he must have been pretty damn good.

 

[Gough]

I'd go Kallis purely because I've grown up watching him and he's head and shoulders above any of the more contemporary all-rounders. Some of the older guys on here might be more inclined to go with Sobers though. His figures speak for themselves.

Agreed, Sobers or Kallis, might as well ask how old are you?

 

[Outshined]

Agreed, Sobers or Kallis, might as well ask how old are you?

22. So well after Sobers' time. Have seen footage of his 200 for the World XI though, so I can see why many consider him the greatest.

 

[aflcliche]

Check out youtube footage of Sobers' last hundred in 1973. 150* against England. He was about 37.

 

[Wallaby]

Channel 9 (Nicholas, Barry Richards (IIRC) and Chappelli) discussed this at tea yesterday. Both Richards and Chappelli named Sir Garfield Sobers as their no. 1 all-rounder of all time, very emphatically.

Chappell said that as a boy, his dad used to take him to Adelaide Oval and his dad told Chappell (presumably Greg and Trevor as well) to watch how Miller played.

One player who BF always forgets in these types of discussions is Richie Benaud. Played 63 tests and scored 2201 runs in 97 innings with a top score of 122 (three centuries and nine 50s) at an average of 24.45 runs/innings. He also took 248 wickets at an average of 27.03 runs/wicket. Certainly wouldn't be the greatest all-rounder of all time, but his career should be recognised more than just being the face of Nine's cricket coverage.

Just for fun, you know that Paul Reiffel has a higher batting average AND lower Bowling average than Benaud? Just saying stats can be fun - Reiffel was seriously under-rated as a player, but not quite in Benaud's league (only playerd 35 tests).

I'd go Sobers - purely because I believe he is in the Top 5 batsmen ever (I rank him No 2). While some of the others are close, I don't think any of them rate in the Top 10 bowlers of all time (nor Kallis as a bat).

And where's the Freddie Flintoff option?

 

[Fred]

Having seen them all, Sobers easily.

 

[djrossie16]

I reckon Imran often gets overlooked. IIRC, in the last 10 years of his career, he averaged around 50 with the bat and 19 with the ball. That is phenomenal. He'd be in my top 3.

I wasn't aware of that

Imran Khan really had a lot of things going for him. A rock star of the game.

 

[Black Diamond]

IMO opinion it is hard to be definitive for several reasons. If we consider batting allrounders, then I would say clearly Sobers. I believe he was more of a frontline bowler than Kallis too.

Average, Strike rate, economy

Sobers: 34.03, 91.9, 2.22
Kallis: 32.63, 69, 2.83

Kallis is a better bowler.

One player who BF always forgets in these types of discussions is...

Monty Noble.

During his long career, Monty Noble showed exceptional ability in every detail of the game, and by many people was regarded as the greatest all-round cricketer produced by Australia.

 

[Super Hans]

Sir Garfield Sobers.

 

[sherb]

One player who BF always forgets in these types of discussions is Richie Benaud. Played 63 tests and scored 2201 runs in 97 innings with a top score of 122 (three centuries and nine 50s) at an average of 24.45 runs/innings. He also took 248 wickets at an average of 27.03 runs/wicket. Certainly wouldn't be the greatest all-rounder of all time, but his career should be recognised more than just being the face of Nine's cricket coverage.

Benaud's first-class record would suggest that he was a better batsman than his Test record indicated.
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Players/0/919/919.html