Gun Control

[Borderline]

I've been through this before, America has more shit people, more crazies and more deaths. If you want a gun in Australia, Europe the shit people find a way to get one. The Muslim who shot up the Parramatta cop shop was not only using a unlicenced weapon, he was using one that was not even legally available in this country.

The Paris Muslims got their weapons from the Muslim enclave of Molenbeek in Brussels, where the cops have no power and you can buy a gun on every Street corner, military grade mind you.

Australia, and our significant lack of murderous, shit people, means we have less attacks. The Lindt Muslim terrorist and the Parramatta Muslim terrorist were both using illegal, black market firearms.

Take the Czech Republic for example, you're allowed to concealed carry and they have very loose gun laws, but when was the last time you saw a mass shooting there?

American culture and their plethora of shitty people, thugs, criminals are to blame for their high gun crime rates. Make guns illegal, take them off law abiding citizens, and you're still going to have tens of millions, even hundreds of millions illegal firearms floating around. It ain't gonna work.

I don't expect anything but abuse from the far left zombies in this thread but ironically those who say gun owners have a violence problem would be the first to let you know that Islam doesn't have a terrorism problem.

 

[kickazz]

I've been through this before, America has more shit people, more crazies and more deaths. If you want a gun in Australia, Europe the shit people find a way to get one. The Muslim who shot up the Parramatta cop shop was not only using a unlicenced weapon, he was using one that was not even legally available in this country.

The Paris Muslims got their weapons from the Muslim enclave of Molenbeek in Brussels, where the cops have no power and you can buy a gun on every Street corner, military grade mind you.

Australia, and our significant lack of murderous, shit people, means we have less attacks. The Lindt Muslim terrorist and the Parramatta Muslim terrorist were both using illegal, black market firearms.

Take the Czech Republic for example, you're allowed to concealed carry and they have very loose gun laws, but when was the last time you saw a mass shooting there?

American culture and their plethora of shitty people, thugs, criminals are to blame for their high gun crime rates. Make guns illegal, take them off law abiding citizens, and you're still going to have tens of millions, even hundreds of millions illegal firearms floating around. It ain't gonna work.

I don't expect anything but abuse from the far left zombies in this thread but ironically those who say gun owners have a violence problem would be the first to let you know that Islam doesn't have a terrorism problem.

All good points. The situation in the US is cultural and endemic, I still believe their gun laws are too liberal but you just can't change them that easily given the situation that currently exists.

Really bad guys will always get guns, that much is true. I think more restrictive laws would definitely help mitigate the problem of high school / university massacre type situations though. In these cases the perps are often not your traditional bad guy, they are lonely and lack the network to get their hands on contraband.

 

[Sydney Kicker]

Funny thing is. that's the first thing i'd do.

g'day Rambo, hope you're enjoying your visit down under.

I tell you what you would probably do in real life. A large number of trained soldiers when facing battle for the first time are too freaked out to fire a shot. So I expect you probably would freeze in place and do exactly what the gunman told you to do - oh you might leak a bit of urine or soil your undies too. (bit like Norf in the finals actually)

If you somehow managed to get your gun out of your concealed carry without being noticed and get your shaky hand to pull the trigger most likely you will hit nothing, or perhaps hit a fellow hostage through a ricochet.

Then when the special forces who actually undergo years of rigorous training and psychological testing to prepare for just such a moment come storming in with the stun grenades, they will see you holding a firearm and take you down in a couple of seconds before you even know what is happening let alone get a chance to say "It wasn't me it was him".

But I guess this is your wet dream, so no doubt after pulling out your big shiny magnum and asking the terrorist "are you feeling lucky punk", you will blow the crap out of him, following which you will take the pretty blonde co hostage back to your hotel just like in a James Bond movie.

Seriously why don't you p$%# off to the good ole USA with all the other nutjobs who equate firearm ownership with freedom and safety.

 

[Borderline]

All good points. The situation in the US is cultural and endemic, I still believe their gun laws are too liberal but you just can't change them that easily given the situation that currently exists.

Really bad guys will always get guns, that much is true. I think more restrictive laws would definitely help mitigate the problem of high school / university massacre type situations though. In these cases the perps are often not your traditional bad guy, they are lonely and lack the network to get their hands on contraband.

Spot on. Take Chicago, worst gun violence rates in America, strictest gun laws

 

[Doss]

Spot on. Take Chicago, worst gun violence rates in America, strictest gun laws

Where are you getting that from about Chicago?

Are you comparing Chicago purely to the other largest cities like LA, New York, Philadelphia, Houston and Dallas?

Because I think you'll find the worst gun violence rates in the US are in places with the highest murder rates, like Camden, Gary and East St Louis. Not to mention somewhere like Detroit.

Also, Chicago's murder rate is lower than Philadelphia's and given that firearms are the cause of approximately two thirds of murders in the US generally, I'd question whether Chicago is even the most dangerous of the large cities.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Where are you getting that from about Chicago?

Pro-gunners work in misinformation and outright lies.

 

[JoseMourinho]

I thought Detriot was highest gun violence

 

[WCErevival]

I've been through this before, America has more shit people, more crazies and more deaths. If you want a gun in Australia, Europe the shit people find a way to get one. The Muslim who shot up the Parramatta cop shop was not only using a unlicenced weapon, he was using one that was not even legally available in this country.

The Paris Muslims got their weapons from the Muslim enclave of Molenbeek in Brussels, where the cops have no power and you can buy a gun on every Street corner, military grade mind you.

Australia, and our significant lack of murderous, shit people, means we have less attacks. The Lindt Muslim terrorist and the Parramatta Muslim terrorist were both using illegal, black market firearms.

Take the Czech Republic for example, you're allowed to concealed carry and they have very loose gun laws, but when was the last time you saw a mass shooting there?

American culture and their plethora of shitty people, thugs, criminals are to blame for their high gun crime rates. Make guns illegal, take them off law abiding citizens, and you're still going to have tens of millions, even hundreds of millions illegal firearms floating around. It ain't gonna work.

I don't expect anything but abuse from the far left zombies in this thread but ironically those who say gun owners have a violence problem would be the first to let you know that Islam doesn't have a terrorism problem.

Can you imagine all the drugged up idiots in Perth if they had easy access to guns?

 

[Borderline]

Where are you getting that from about Chicago?

Are you comparing Chicago purely to the other largest cities like LA, New York, Philadelphia, Houston and Dallas?

Because I think you'll find the worst gun violence rates in the US are in places with the highest murder rates, like Camden, Gary and East St Louis. Not to mention somewhere like Detroit.

Also, Chicago's murder rate is lower than Philadelphia's and given that firearms are the cause of approximately two thirds of murders in the US generally, I'd question whether Chicago is even the most dangerous of the large cities.

Sorry, I meant to say they have the most mass shooting deaths as a whole. When you consider much larger cities have far lower numbers than Chicago it really strikes home though.

 

[Borderline]

Can you imagine all the drugged up idiots in Perth if they had easy access to guns?

I don't think it would make a difference. They have easy access to knives so if you can prove an escalated rate of stabbings for people on drugs vs not on drugs I'll take notice.

 

[Doss]

Yes but Chicago is the third biggest city in the country anyway; only New York and LA are bigger, and if it has a higher level than those two, I'm not sure what practical use that statistic has.

I'm not sure what point there is distinguishing between 'mass shooting deaths' and 'normal' gun deaths either.

Yeah, Chicago has a problem with gun violence in spite of the strict(ish) laws around them but it's still far from the worst in the US.

As an amazing aside, I saw this tidbit the other day; New York City had 328 recorded homicides in 2014. In 1990, it had, with a smaller population, 2,245 recorded homicides.

So it's gone from an average of over six per day, to under one. Pretty incredible.

 

[apparentlydead]

But would he have had the wherewithal to get one? If he didn't have guns already in his possession, would the massacre ever have happened at all? Was he committed enough to it to have gone out and illegally obtained the firearms needed?

Maybe, maybe not. Guns were readily available in publications like The Trading Post and the like, so it wouldn't have been too difficult if he was determined enough. Apparently money wasn't an issue for him.

The problem with Bryant, IMO, was the lack of recognition of someone with a severe cognitive impairment who was already in possession of an arsenal. With firearm ownership also comes a responsibility of the authorities to withdraw that license if one becomes mentally unstable.

Yep, sometimes that can be too late. The world aint perfect.

Urg. Good guys? Can you spot that every farmer/sporting shooter is a good guy? Like Gino Stocco? I understand as a farmer you need these things (Hell, i've lived on a farm when i was younger, so i understand how much of a pest wallabies/kangaroos can be)

I know what you're saying, but no system is without its flaws.

My original point was that the Stuccco's of the world can, and will, access high powered fire arms far easier today than before Port Arthur.

In saying that, only recently a farmer shot and killed his wife, two kids and himself with a fully licensed gun. So what do you do?

Indeed, my opinion would be that while a lot of bad guys could always get their hands on a gun... why make it any easier for them.

But it is easier for them. The black market has flourished.

 

[Gough]

Suicide is the unspoken part of gun control debate. It's already at crisis point in Australia, and throwing easy access to guns into that mix would be a recipe for disaster.

 

[apparentlydead]

Suicide is the unspoken part of gun control debate. It's already at crisis point in Australia, and throwing easy access to guns into that mix would be a recipe for disaster.

I don't thinks so mate. If people are determined enough to suicide, the lack of a firearm is hardly going to stop them.

Is there/has there been a study after the Port Arthur gun control laws showing a direct correlation between a drop in suicide rates and the handing in of guns?

I don't reckon there has been.

 

[Gough]

I don't thinks so mate. If people are determined enough to suicide, the lack of a firearm is hardly going to stop them.

Is there/has there been a study after the Port Arthur gun control laws showing a direct correlation between a drop in suicide rates and the handing in of guns?

I don't reckon there has been.

I can only speak for myself, but I couldn't put my hand on heart, and say that if I had access to a gun in some of darker moments, that I'd be standing here now.

 

[apparentlydead]

I can only speak for myself, but I couldn't put my hand on heart, and say that if I had access to a gun in some of darker moments, that I'd be standing here now.

I know what you're saying and have been down that dark tunnel too, and in possession of a literal arsenal of guns, but the thought of a family member finding me with my head actually blown off always stopped me.

I suppose we are all different, but I would go out with an overdose of something peaceful.

Again, like you, that's just me though.

 

[Gough]

I know what you're saying and have been down that dark tunnel too, and in possession of a literal arsenal of guns, but the thought of a family member finding me with my head actually blown off always stopped me.

I suppose we are all different, but I would go out with an overdose of something peaceful.

Again, like you, that's just me though.

My reasoning is more that in the cold hard light of day I can see the issue rationally, but if you're in the moment, and you have a bunch guns at hand, bad decisions can be made.

 

[apparentlydead]

My reasoning is more that in the cold hard light of day I can see the issue rationally, but if you're in the moment, and you have a bunch guns at hand, bad decisions can be made.

Yeah, but I don't think anyone here, (apart from Borderline ), is advocating for a free for all policy on guns like in the States.

For myself, I'm only pointing out that the policy has failed, and that it is only the Australian psyche, (as pointed out by Doss ), which stops the massacres which we see in the USA.

The guns are already out there for it to happen, and they have been for years.

 

[Borderline]

Yeah, but I don't think anyone here, (apart from Borderline ), is advocating for a free for all policy on guns like in the States.

For myself, I'm only pointing out that the policy has failed, and that it is only the Australian psyche, (as pointed out by Doss ), which stops the massacres which we see in the USA.

The guns are already out there for it to happen, and they have been for years.

Lol you know you're just agreeing with me with this post? Never thought I'd see the day

 

[apparentlydead]

Lol you know you're just agreeing with me with this post? Never thought I'd see the day

No, no I'm not.

 

[Borderline]

No, no I'm not.

I'm not advocating for a free for all, not that the US has that

 

[Keys]

I've never felt even slightly compelled to buy a gun of any type so I've never had the need to look into our gun laws in any depth

The laws should not allow for the purchase of automatic weapons or allow for guns to be carried in public (concealed or not). People with a criminal record or a mental illness should not be allowed to own a firearm

Those that want a gun hard enough will find a way to get one no matter how restrictive the laws are, but I'm glad I can go about what I need to do on a daily basis without concerning myself that a significant percentage of the people around me are carrying a weapon

A lot if that is because as a society we don't place a high importance on owning guns and probably moreso than our gun laws. Doesn't mean I won't those laws relaxed nor would I care if they were tightened further

 

[Scotland]

Reasons to own a gun:

1. You're a farmer or a hunter and you need to shoot animals on the land on a regular basis.

2. You're a sport shooter and you like to shoot clay pigeons or stationary targets or VB cans or whatever it is you shoot at.

That pretty much covers it. You don't need to own an AK47 or Uzi and you don't need a gun of any description in the home in the city.

We like to think we're better than the US because we don't have an ingrained gun culture but every weekend we have people hospitalised from drunken fights, glassings etc. and each year some of these end in fatalities. What do you think would happen if everyone could carry a handgun?

 

[Bomberboyokay]

 

[Plugger35]

There was that teacher who was at Sandy Hook interviewed on the ABC recently.

Woodbang/10 btw

What she described with grade 1 kids only 6 years old getting gunned down by this maniac with school teachers trying to shield them was heartbreaking.

If that doesn't change gun control laws in the States then nothing will, all gun massacres are tragic but little kids getting gunned down is beyond the pale.