GWS Giants - honeymoon is over?

[WillHayward]

Is the honeymoon over? 14 years in to the experiment.

Average home crowds this season 12,000.

Hogan, Whitfield, Greene, Kelly, Coniglio all 30.

AFLW side on the bottom .

Tassie coming in.

We all know the "membership" numbers are fake and pumped up by the cheap kayo offer

Publicly they will say everything is going great but privately the AFL would be worried.

No new draftees coming out of western Sydney while SEQ has become a footy factory

How do people really think the Giants are going out in western Sydney if we put the positive spin to the side?

 

[Tackle Bag]

I’d be interested to know what value they bring to the broadcast deal and if that goes some way towards justifying the spend.

Not worried about the list. They have good talent and the AFL will not let them become uncompetitive anyway.

Auskick numbers in NSW have strong growth, how much of that is in GWS?

We’re 15 years into something we were told would take decades.

Even if the AFL did acknowledge internally that they had a problem, moving them or altering from the current path is something they simply wouldn’t do. Can you imagine them backing out of NRL territory with their tail between their legs? It’s a tricky one.

I’d like to see them drop the “greater” and just become Western or West Sydney for a start.

 

[Madas]

Such a big gap between their best and worst

Must be hard though with the revolving door of players over the years

Tough start to next year without young Jones and I’m not sure how much their senior players have got left in the tank

 

[Osho]

When the music's over.
Turn out the lights.
Turn out the lights.

 

[Colonial]

Makes it hard with the inept board the AFL gave us that are untouchable.

Not being full time hurts as well.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Probably doesn't help that they get booted out of their home ground early in the season for the Show. It's hard to build their brand if they're "part time Sydney, part time Canberra".

AFL should look at upgrading another Western Sydney venue to be the second home instead of Canberra - then potentially have Canberra as the 20th team.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Since they cracked through for their first finals in 2016, they've only missed twice, made a grand final, came about as close as you possibly can to making two others and I think last week is the only time they've gone out in an elimination final. A lot of other teams would like the wheels to come off like that. It would be a slightly bitter pill for them to swallow for Gold Coast to swoop in and get their first flag before the Giants though.

Adam Kingsley

Adam Kingsley

Age

50

Ht

183cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.9

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

16.4

4star

K

10.4

4star

HB

6.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

's right: they just need to keep fronting up every year, dare to be great and risk being gutted when you feel so close but fall short. It's a similar path to the one Sydney and Port have taken over the past 10+ years. You'll get your heart broken, but you're never going to win anything, cruising along in safe, mid-table mediocrity.

 

[HBFlanker]

If you are talking about on field performance, they have been really good over their time in the league. Regular finals and a GF appearance is good going. They will continue to be a finals team with Green, Callaghan, Cadman, Taylor etc.

Off field is a different story. They have barely made an impact at all in Western Sydney, and Rugby League has only gotten stronger in the region in the past 15 years.

I know for a fact they have had some crowds under 5000 total attendance at Engie this year. Obviously these numbers are announced differently. Thats a concern for the league.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

If you are talking about on field performance, they have been really good over their time in the league. Regular finals and a GF appearance is good going. They will continue to be a finals team with Green, Callaghan, Cadman, Taylor etc.

Off field is a different story. They have barely made an impact at all in Western Sydney, and Rugby League has only gotten stronger in the region in the past 15 years.

I know for a fact they have had some crowds under 5000 total attendance at Engie this year. Obviously these numbers are announced differently. Thats a concern for the league.

I think getting good numbers on TV (because the games you play in matter), would be of far more concern, when you have situations like Channel 7 actively choosing not to broadcast Carlton v Essendon on free to air because absolutely no-one cares.

They win much more than they lose and their games matter. As long as that continues, I think the AFL has far greater concerns than the Giants.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Is the honeymoon over? 14 years in to the experiment.

Average home crowds this season 12,000.

Hogan, Whitfield, Greene, Kelly, Coniglio all 30.

AFLW side on the bottom .

Tassie coming in.

We all know the "membership" numbers are fake and pumped up by the cheap kayo offer

Publicly they will say everything is going great but privately the AFL would be worried.

No new draftees coming out of western Sydney while SEQ has become a footy factory

How do people really think the Giants are going out in western Sydney?

Horribly. I have said before that not being able to fill the stadium when you're at or near the top doesn't bode well for when they are out of the 8 for several years. I would prefer the AFL relocate GWS to Canberra.

 

[Rotayjay]

It's like giving someone a gift you knew they didn't want, and then wondering why they never use/wear it.

 

[HBFlanker]

I think getting good numbers on TV (because the games you play in matter), would be of far more concern, when you have situations like Channel 7 actively choosing not to broadcast Carlton v Essendon on free to air because absolutely no-one cares.

They win much more than they lose and their games matter. As long as that continues, I think the AFL has far greater concerns than the Giants.

Totally disagree with your second comment. Its a horrible look broadcasting empty stadiums, which GWS regularly play in front of.

They are comfortably the AFLs biggest concern.

In a market like Sydney, you cannot rely on one club to carry the load in terms of attracting new eyeballs.

 

[HBFlanker]

Horribly. I have said before that not being able to fill the stadium when you're at or near the top doesn't bode well for when they are out of the 8 for several years. I would prefer the AFL relocate GWS to Canberra.

Really good point this.

Once they start struggling the numbers will drop further.

Through smart football department management, they have been able to compete for the vast majority of seasons so far. That wont always be the case.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Totally disagree with your second comment. Its a horrible look broadcasting empty stadiums, which GWS regularly play in front of.

They are comfortably the AFLs biggest concern.

In a market like Sydney, you cannot rely on one club to carry the load in terms of attracting new eyeballs.

Well, fair enough, agree to disagree. There were about eight teams who were absolutely irrelevant by the start of the financial year this season. If there's a game featuring one of those teams, chances are I'm not watching it unless my team happens to be playing them... because they don't matter.

 

[Seattle Mariners]

Relocate them down to Canberra if and when Manuka Oval ever resembles a proper AFL venue.

Doubt more than a couple of thousand rusted on GWS supporters would be affected or care.

 

[Fadge]

Since they cracked through for their first finals in 2016, they've only missed twice, made a grand final, came about as close as you possibly can to making two others and I think last week is the only time they've gone out in an elimination final. A lot of other teams would like the wheels to come off like that. It would be a slightly bitter pill for them to swallow for Gold Coast to swoop in and get their first flag before the Giants though.

Adam Kingsley's right: they just need to keep fronting up every year, dare to be great and risk being gutted when you feel so close but fall short. It's a similar path to the one Sydney and Port have taken over the past 10+ years. You'll get your heart broken, but you're never going to win anything, cruising along in safe, mid-table mediocrity.

Absolutely agree.

Flags are frigging hard to win.

 

[BigVic]

Just call them the GIANTS as with the Dolphins in the NRL

 

[WillHayward]

I’d be interested to know what value they bring to the broadcast deal and if that goes some way towards justifying the spend.

Not worried about the list. They have good talent and the AFL will not let them become uncompetitive anyway.

Auskick numbers in NSW have strong growth, how much of that is in GWS?

We’re 15 years into something we were told would take decades.

Even if the AFL did acknowledge internally that they had a problem, moving them or altering from the current path is something they simply wouldn’t do. Can you imagine them backing out of NRL territory with their tail between their legs? It’s a tricky one.

I’d like to see them drop the “greater” and just become Western or West Sydney for a start.

Re Auskick numbers. I think these aren't that important if kids over the age of 10 aren't playing.
I have some friends living in western Sydney and I've asked how my ovals with AFL goal posts they see around and the answer is "not many".

 

[WillHayward]

Since they cracked through for their first finals in 2016, they've only missed twice, made a grand final, came about as close as you possibly can to making two others and I think last week is the only time they've gone out in an elimination final. A lot of other teams would like the wheels to come off like that. It would be a slightly bitter pill for them to swallow for Gold Coast to swoop in and get their first flag before the Giants though.

Adam Kingsley's right: they just need to keep fronting up every year, dare to be great and risk being gutted when you feel so close but fall short. It's a similar path to the one Sydney and Port have taken over the past 10+ years. You'll get your heart broken, but you're never going to win anything, cruising along in safe, mid-table mediocrity.

But they are looking like a mid table mediocre team
Kingsley can say whatever he likes .
Sure they did well on field but that is my question now. Is the honeymoon over?

 

[WillHayward]

It's like giving someone a gift you knew they didn't want, and then wondering why they never use/wear it.

A bit like Christian missionaries in some places in the past..
Locals are like...yeahhh. Nahh..no thanks.

I think only the true AFL zealots think this is going to work...

 

[Tackle Bag]

Re Auskick numbers. I think these aren't that important if kids over the age of 10 aren't playing.
I have some friends living in western Sydney and I've asked how my ovals with AFL goal posts they see around and the answer is "not many".

Agree. I’m told that Auskick numbers have more than doubled from 2024-2025 and are somewhere around 120k for nsw which is promising. I imagine the bulk of those are in swans territory though.

I heard a school teacher from that area on radio here in Vic earlier in the week. He was saying the clubs were fantastic to deal with and very supportive but there was just very little interest among the kids.

 

[Elixuh]

It is concerning that GWS has been really stable in performance and haven’t been a basket case and the support isn’t there. But the questions I think are important are:

1. How long does it take to build a club and a foothold. My view is for a new club it could take a generation or two. Think about how families grow and the kids support the team and so on. 15 years is nothing.

2. What is their value to the broadcast deal.

3. What are the residual benefits of having 2 teams in NSW.

I think the answer to all 3 will be in favour of GWS. Too many take a superficial view on these things.

 

[Corkintheocean]

It is concerning that GWS has been really stable in performance and haven’t been a basket case and the support isn’t there. But the questions I think are important are:

1. How long does it take to build a club and a foothold. My view is for a new club it could take a generation or two. Think about how families grow and the kids support the team and so on. 15 years is nothing.

2. What is their value to the broadcast deal.

3. What are the residual benefits of having 2 teams in NSW.

I think the answer to all 3 will be in favour of GWS. Too many take a superficial view on these things.

On the flipside, how detrimental is it to have the talent pool skewed to non-traditional AFL states to the extent that traditional football states suffer, their teams underperform and historically large talent pools in those states dwindle due to ambivalence towards the sport from seeing their teams languishing at the bottom of the league (WA & SA specifically)?

 

[Elixuh]

On the flipside, how detrimental is it to have the talent pool skewed to non-traditional AFL states to the extent that traditional football states suffer, their teams underperform and historically large talent pools in those states dwindle due to ambivalence towards the sport from seeing their teams languishing at the bottom of the league (WA & SA specifically)?

Is that happening? Each SA and WA team has had periods of success since GWS and GCS entered the competition.

Your issue may instead be that the AFL isn’t spending enough on talent pathways nationally?

The populations in Qld and NSW support a business case for 2 teams in each. But the success of that isn’t going to be seen overnight, especially being in non-traditional states.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

But they are looking like a mid table mediocre team
Kingsley can say whatever he likes .
Sure they did well on field but that is my question now. Is the honeymoon over?

By definition "mid table mediocre" would be 12 wins, what the team that finished in 10th ended up on. GWS finished on 16 wins, one more win and they'd have been in third place.

They were leading in the fourth quarter of their final last week, now all of a sudden they're no good?

People go a bit silly this time of the year: the four teams who won in week 1 are bulletproof, the four teams who lost in week 1 are either on a stay of execution (QF losers) or in need of a complete rebuild (EF losers). We've been here before with the Giants and they've demonstrated their resilience numerous times.