Play Nice GWS set to lose the Riverina (including Albury) from their Academy Zone

[Demonic Ascent]

What do you think these academies are currently doing? There has been no talent coming out of these regions. Prior to the 2014 AFL draft (when the academies started to produce results) I want you to find me 10 AFL players drafted from Sydney. Rookie's don't count. Then compare it to a city similar in population compare it to Melbourne, or lets go smaller and compare it to Perth. The Northern academies are for areas which are not growing AFL grade players

That's great, I'm all for academies that develop talent in non-traditional footy states or regional areas with little to no development. But no club should have priority pick access to those players as it destroys the integrity of the draft and the equalisation principles of the competition.

 

[TommyD13]

What do you think these academies are currently doing? There has been no talent coming out of these regions. Prior to the 2014 AFL draft (when the academies started to produce results) I want you to find me 10 AFL players drafted from Sydney. Rookie's don't count. Then compare it to a city similar in population compare it to Melbourne, or lets go smaller and compare it to Perth. The Northern academies are for areas which are not growing AFL grade players

I agree that there should be programs to help these so called non-traditional areas. But as Demonic Ascent said a couple of posts back, why do certain clubs get dibs on these players? I think that is what you should be calling unfair.

 

[LoungeLizard]

That's great, I'm all for academies that develop talent in non-traditional footy states or regional areas with little to no development. But no club should have priority pick access to those players as it destroys the integrity of the draft and the equalisation principles of the competition.

Academies won't work unless the club gets 1st dibs.
How many clubs do you think will keep academies going if other clubs were taking the cream?

 

[TommyD13]

Academies won't work unless the club gets 1st dibs.
How many clubs do you think will keep academies going if other clubs were taking the cream?

Dont know how the logistics would work, but why dont the AFL fund these programs, not the clubs?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Academies won't work unless the club gets 1st dibs.
How many clubs do you think will keep academies going if other clubs were taking the cream?

They should be run by the AFL, it shouldn't be up to clubs to develop junior talent. There should be a consistent approach across the board to ensure all kids get the same opportunities. If you're worried about branding, brand them with certain club names. But there is no reason it should be left to clubs to do and even less reason for the draft to be compromised as a result.

And don't come back with "more players drafted now than before" just because it wasn't done properly in the past (it is a growth area after all, not a traditional area) that does not mean it can't be done properly now.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Dont know how the logistics would work, but why dont the AFL fund these programs, not the clubs?

Or give all clubs academies, and each club gets 1st dibs on players they produce.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Or give all clubs academies, and each club gets 1st dibs on players they produce.

Sure if you want to destroy the equalisation principles of the competition and ensure some kids get left behind due to poor investment/development programs of some clubs who struggle to even run themselves properly at times.

 

[LoungeLizard]

They should be run by the AFL, it shouldn't be up to clubs to develop junior talent. There should be a consistent approach across the board to ensure all kids get the same opportunities. If you're worried about branding, brand them with certain club names. But there is no reason it should be left to clubs to do and even less reason for the draft to be compromised as a result.

And don't come back with "more players drafted now than before" just because it wasn't done properly in the past (it is a growth area after all, not a traditional area) that does not mean it can't be done properly now.

It just needs to be equal for all clubs.
AFL could do it yes, but clubs can still run them.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Sure if you want to destroy the equalisation principles of the competition and ensure some kids get left behind due to poor investment/development programs of some clubs who struggle to even run themselves properly at times.

Well that is up to the club, if they want 1st dibs, it's in their interest to develop future stars

 

[BloodySwan]

Dont know how the logistics would work, but why dont the AFL fund these programs, not the clubs?

The AFL has run plenty of programs in the past, they didn't work

 

[Matchu]

But you could probably also come up with an example of people with 2 Aussie parents as well. Simmons had the opportunity to play and elected basketball. I wouldn't have thought the reasoning for the academies is to retain players who already play footy and make a choice to leave, it was to entice kids to play footy who otherwise would never have played in the first place. Simmons could have played for Eastern Rangers (is that the TAC team out Doncaster way?)

You don't think the AFL would loathe the fact that they lost an athlete like Ben Simmons to basketball? What about the fairest and best footballer from the 2004 U16s national championships named Patrick Mills? Multiple Grand Slam champion and former world number 1 Lleyton Hewitt? Spin King Shane Warne? Rugby League Champion Darren Lockyer? Ricky Ponting? Andrew Bogut? Matthew Dellavedova? Just to name a few footy juniors who excelled in other sports.

Granted, most of these guys probably wouldn't have stuck with Aussie rules regardless but the point is that there may have been a few that did. There are recent example of the game potentially losing exceptional athletes with Sydney's academy pair Isaac Heeney and Callum Mills. Both were keen on rugby in their teenage years but stuck with footy because of the Swans academy.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

You don't think the AFL would loathe the fact that they lost an athlete like Ben Simmons to basketball? What about the fairest and best footballer from the 2004 U16s national championships named Patrick Mills? Multiple Grand Slam champion and former world number 1 Lleyton Hewitt? Spin King Shane Warne? Rugby League Champion Darren Lockyer? Ricky Ponting? Andrew Bogut? Matthew Dellavedova? Just to name a few footy juniors who excelled in other sports.

Granted, most of these guys probably wouldn't have stuck with Aussie rules regardless but the point is that there may have been a few that did. There are recent example of the game potentially losing exceptional athletes with Sydney's academy pair Isaac Heeney and Callum Mills. Both were keen on rugby in their teenage years but stuck with footy because of the Swans academy.

I'm assuming most of those you've mentioned wouldn't have been eligible for the multicultural academies so not sure what your point is. The talent pathways existed for those people had they wanted to continue with footy/if they were good enough to make it. Not every pro athlete who used to play footy would've translated to an AFL player.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The AFL has run plenty of programs in the past, they didn't work

Something not being done right previously ≠ something never being able to be done right. Most of these areas weren't focused on as they weren't Aussie rules heartland and the benefits probably weren't seen as great enough to throw resources at. Not to mention the money in the game has grown exponentially to the point where AFL development programs in those areas are now viable. The argument that it wasn't done properly previously doesn't wash.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Well that is up to the club, if they want 1st dibs, it's in their interest to develop future stars

And if they fail to run them properly the sport and competition as a whole is poorer, the kids are let down and equalisation is further eroded. Seems like a waste of time, better to just have consistent approaches to development across the board and have a fair draft in reverse ladder order.

 

[LoungeLizard]

And if they fail to run them properly the sport and competition as a whole is poorer, the kids are let down and equalisation is further eroded. Seems like a waste of time, better to just have consistent approaches to development across the board and have a fair draft in reverse ladder order.

I get what you are saying, but the AFL could also fail, now if the AFL fails, then the competition will be way poorer than if 1 or 2 clubs fail, wouldn't you say?

 

[BloodySwan]

Something not being done right previously ≠ something never being able to be done right. Most of these areas weren't focused on as they weren't Aussie rules heartland and the benefits probably weren't seen as great enough to throw resources at. Not to mention the money in the game has grown exponentially to the point where AFL development programs in those areas are now viable. The argument that it wasn't done properly previously doesn't wash.

The Academies are working. Better than the AFL was expecting - that's your problem with them. The academies are producing AFL grade quality players, and they only continue to work with the assistance of the Northern Clubs. The other programs didn't work that's why you didn't know about them. I grew up in these programs, watched blokes like Witts get rookie drafted as an afterthought. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't but it was waaaay to slow to show any form of improvement. The AFL has invested huge swathes of money into developing NSW & QLD but it hasn't worked.

To put it into perspective, the Swans once approached the AFL requesting first dibs on the greater Sydney region and they would leave the draft all together. The AFL said no because they felt there wasn't enough talent in Sydney to sustain the Swans. That should they do this the Swans would always be last.

 

[sataris]

It just needs to be equal for all clubs.

LOL, Only when the they perceive they're missing out on something do victards trot out this line.

 

[LoungeLizard]

LOL, Only when the they perceive they're missing out on something do victards trot out this line.

Yep, great post, and of course you would know all about equalization hey?

 

[sataris]

Yep, great post, and of course you would know all about equalization hey?

Thanks, I'm glad you learned something.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I get what you are saying, but the AFL could also fail, now if the AFL fails, then the competition will be way poorer than if 1 or 2 clubs fail, wouldn't you say?

The TAC cup seems to go ok as a development mechanism. The current academies seem to be doing OK, they'd just have to take over and maintain the current operations. They have the resources to invest in it, I'm not sure all the clubs do. Not to mention some clubs can't even get the footy team right let alone branching out into women's teams and academies. Can you imagine growing up in Richmond's zone? Jeezus

I just don't like the idea of zones/academies it is a backwards move to an era that led to great inequities in the competition. For all of the Hawks, Swans and Cats dominance it is probably the most even time in the comps history because of the equalisation measures of the AFL like the salary cap and draft. Destroy the integrity of those mechanisms (and let's be honest they're not even applied or policed as stringently as they should be) and the competition will be the poorer.

 

[Clems Knee]

Ok what i meant was that you get rid of the northern academies and give every team a next gen academy. What you do for one club you must do for all.

Yep. So get every Victorian club onto a plane after every game and make them fly 3000km because what you do for one club you must do for all.
Give every club the free ride that certain Victorian clubs get with the umpires, because what you do for one club you must do for all. Oh wait, that last one should actually happen; it just doesn't.

Getting rid of the northern academies would be a stupid and backward step. If the game doesn't grow, then the clubs will be put under pressure. Every club faces its own challenges and it is a balancing act by the AFL to meet these challenges equitably. I think the correction is fair, but if the number of AFL players produced by the Riverina dries up in the next few years, then it will have to be looked at again.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The Academies are working. Better than the AFL was expecting - that's your problem with them. The academies are producing AFL grade quality players, and they only continue to work with the assistance of the Northern Clubs. The other programs didn't work that's why you didn't know about them. I grew up in these programs, watched blokes like Witts get rookie drafted as an afterthought. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't but it was waaaay to slow to show any form of improvement. The AFL has invested huge swathes of money into developing NSW & QLD but it hasn't worked.

To put it into perspective, the Swans once approached the AFL requesting first dibs on the greater Sydney region and they would leave the draft all together. The AFL said no because they felt there wasn't enough talent in Sydney to sustain the Swans. That should they do this the Swans would always be last.

My problem with the academies is once the players are ready for senior footy they don't go into the draft pool like every other player giving teams an opportunity to draft players on their merits according to their draft order. The AFL has pushed harder into the northern states than any time in history over the last decade, there's no reason why full time development programs couldn't be instituted to develop the kids growing up in those areas.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Yep. So get every Victorian club onto a plane after every game and make them fly 3000km because what you do for one club you must do for all.
Give every club the free ride that certain Victorian clubs get with the umpires, because what you do for one club you must do for all. Oh wait, that last one should actually happen; it just doesn't

Lol

 

[BloodySwan]

My problem with the academies is once the players are ready for senior footy they don't go into the draft pool like every other player giving teams an opportunity to draft players on their merits according to their draft order. The AFL has pushed harder into the northern states than any time in history over the last decade, there's no reason why full time development programs couldn't be instituted to develop the kids growing up in those areas.

So your problem is that once the programs succeed - keeping in mind the academies were discussed with the other clubs as well AND the AFL has spent millions of their own money in failed projects over the last 20 years - once the AFL has convinced the clubs to spend millions of dollars over 7ish years they shouldn't be able to have any access to the players that only existed due to these academies.


And while we're on it, how are your opinions on the father son rules?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

So your problem is that once the programs succeed - keeping in mind the academies were discussed with the other clubs as well AND the AFL has spent millions of their own money in failed projects over the last 20 years - once the AFL has convinced the clubs to spend millions of dollars over 7ish years they shouldn't be able to have any access to the players that only existed due to these academies.


And while we're on it, how are your opinions on the father son rules?

I think the father son rule should go as well. Two of the key pillars of equalisation in the AFL's own words are the draft and salary cap. They can't afford to be compromised or the competition as a whole will suffer, competitively and financially.

What do the academy clubs currently do with the academies that you think the AFL couldn't?