Play Nice GWS set to lose the Riverina (including Albury) from their Academy Zone

[Ichabod Noodle]

That's not my understanding. I was under the impression that Riverina players who will be ineligible to play in the Academy Series can still be selected for the Allies in the Div 1 competition. Do you have any source to back up your theory?

No, but think about it. You've got all these kids busting their arses in the div 2 tournament trying to get selected, and putting in some worthy performances - and they dropped (or not selected) for someone who hasn't played a game?

Quite frankly, not a good look.

And then there's this from the AFL website...

The introduction of the Allies side as a division one team (made up of players from the division two competition) means the best prospects from those regions will still play at a national level in the division one carnival, which takes place after the academy series is finished.

Emphasis mine.

Again - which seems to be lost in all of this debate - it's not just about this year. It's about DECADES to come.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

My solution is to play more games in both SA & WA where demand exceeds supply - start with games currently scheduled in Melbourne that don't pull a crowd, don't break even, e.g the North v Eagles game last weekend, where the AFL will pick up the loss.

Start with say 1 game a year as an AFL FIXture, not someone 'one of' sale of a game.
IF you look at the North game, you could provide their WA membership FREE entry to the game, Eagles members would not be entitled to a seat as its Norths home game, and the WA footy public who battle to get to a game would effectively pay at the gate, North would make a profit not a loss, 35k+ fans get to a game, not 22k who have access to another 13 games in Melbourne.

YES, the home game argument would be run, given that North play 2 x home games in Tas (complete with make up games for the members) & an away game v the Hawks also in Tas. Reality home games are about making money, that's why Melbourne clubs move them now - its up to the AFL to fo FIX, & fix they do.

Its doable.

Lol yeah so Eagles get 12 home games and North gets 10 sound legit

And this has what to do with the GWS academy borders?

 

[Kwality]

Well if you have excess demand, then wouldn't it be better for WA and SA to put it to the AFL for 2 new licenses?
Because i really don't think there is one Melbourne club that would agree to play home games in Perth.

I'm looking to the AFL to address the supply/demand issue, a home game is only about money & memberships 11 games being the norm, but Collingwood offer 17 game memberships, so many Melbourne clubs already get make up games, its there for all to see.
Its not about clubs agreeing or disagreeing, the AFL fixture is about our game, witness the Grand Final.
I'm anti more teams made up of the best 80 rejects at the last draft a couple of months back - I want an elite comp, most lists have 5-6 guys who will never make a mark in our game, its too thin with 18 clubs, let alone 20.

Change is challenging ...

 

[Kwality]

And this has what to do with the GWS academy borders?

Yes, we have got off the issue - have the AFL put in a regime to replace GWS yet, or just said what cant happen & let the NRL fill the void.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Having trouble with the Hawks home games in Tas & Melbourne, Geelong in Melbourne & Geelong, Melbourne at the G/Etihad & Darwin, Bullies looking to play home games in Ballarat, Port v the Suns in China - the game has moved on D'As.
How many games do North play at Etihad, some are home, some are away - its only about money, legit is an example of hanging on to long gone State league concepts.

If you can't tell the difference between a home game in your home city or a home game at an interstate venue vs a neutral opponent compared to having a home game interstate at your opponents home ground then I can't help you.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

And this has what to do with the GWS academy borders?

Exactly

 

[Matchu]

No, but think about it. You've got all these kids busting their arses in the div 2 tournament trying to get selected, and putting in some worthy performances - and they dropped (or not selected) for someone who hasn't played a game?

Quite frankly, not a good look.

And then there's this from the AFL website...


Emphasis mine.

Again - which seems to be lost in all of this debate - it's not just about this year. It's about DECADES to come.

I'd guess that quote was written before the Riverina section was removed from the GWS zone and was written that way because the author didn't have the foresight to write it in a more accurate way. Again, my understanding is that any player from QLD, NSW, ACT, NT or TAS can be chosen to represent the Allies. You don't have to be a part of an academy.

The best players available should be selected. If that means it's a kid who hails from Albury playing in the TAC Cup that didn't compete in the Div 2 National Championships then so be it. Let's say this was in place this year and Brander was ineligible to play in the Div 2 National Championships but started tearing up the TAC Cup by the time selection for the Div 1 National Championships came around. You really think they are going to overlook him just purely because he didn't play in the Div 2 Championships? Of course they wouldn't. Brander would be selected because he's performing very well in the strongest under 18 competition in Australia.

 

[Kwality]

If you can't tell the difference between a home game in your home city or a home game at an interstate venue vs a neutral opponent compared to having a home game interstate at your opponents home ground then I can't help you.

As long as you are rooted in a home & away concept from the long gone State comps you are right, but times have changed as best displayed by the Port/Suns FIXture in China.

Are you sure you aren't simply trying to hang on to yesterday because Melbourne clubs don't share the travel, evenly.
When the Ds play at the G its a home game but other times its not ... a home game is only about money .... you want to choose where you play, I'm saying the AFL should FIXture it in the best interests of the game, just as you dont get to pick where you travel to ...
If Melbourne were to get to a GF, they get to play at home , NO they play at the MCG but its not there home ground that day or is it?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

As long as you are rooted in a home & away concept from the long gone State comps you are right, but times have changed as best displayed by the Port/Suns FIXture in China.

Are you sure you aren't simply trying to hang on to yesterday because Melbourne clubs don't share the travel, evenly.
When the Ds play at the G its a home game but other times its not ... a home game is only about money .... you want to choose where you play, I'm saying the AFL should FIXture it in the best interests of the game, just as you dont get to pick where you travel to ...
If Melbourne were to get to a GF, they get to play at home , NO they play at the MCG but its not there home ground that day or is it?

When we play away games at the G it's against another Vic club. We don't play away games at the G vs the Eagles or Crows.

H&A has nothing to do with being a state league. Every national league in the world has a home and away concept. What is so hard to grasp about this?

 

[LoungeLizard]

As long as you are rooted in a home & away concept from the long gone State comps you are right, but times have changed as best displayed by the Port/Suns FIXture in China.

Are you sure you aren't simply trying to hang on to yesterday because Melbourne clubs don't share the travel, evenly.
When the Ds play at the G its a home game but other times its not ... a home game is only about money .... you want to choose where you play, I'm saying the AFL should FIXture it in the best interests of the game, just as you dont get to pick where you travel to ...
If Melbourne were to get to a GF, they get to play at home , NO they play at the MCG but its not there home ground that day or is it?

Victorian clubs have been traveling for a lot longer than you think.

Now i asked you about sharing the travel, and you said travel had nothing to do with it, but here you are saying it does.

So, what i said before, you don't give a s**t about other clubs, as long as your club travels less.

 

[Quinz]

Because i really don't think there is one Melbourne club that would agree to play home games in Perth.

Although I'm not a fan of the idea particularly, surely some would if the money was there, I mean North Melbourne even submitted a home game in Perth as one of their fixture requests back in 2009/10? The AFL blocked it though.

 

[Kwality]

Victorian clubs have been traveling for a lot longer than you think.

Now i asked you about sharing the travel, and you said travel had nothing to do with it, but here you are saying it does.

So, what i said before, you don't give a s**t about other clubs, as long as your club travels less.

Are you sure that's what I said? In the context of home & away, I said: Are you sure you aren't simply trying to hang on to yesterday because Melbourne clubs don't share the travel, evenly.

Supply & demand is my point, oversupply in Melbourne with games losing money, excess demand in Perth & Adelaide, where the same game would help the subsidy being paid on these games i.e a better approach than more teams.

Home is whatever the AFL agrees to & as shown by the Hawks it doesn't have to be in Melbourne & the next step already taken is China.

 

[Kwality]

When we play away games at the G it's against another Vic club. We don't play away games at the G vs the Eagles or Crows.

H&A has nothing to do with being a state league. Every national league in the world has a home and away concept. What is so hard to grasp about this?

Be honest it simply convenience, Melbourne v Collingwood is so different than Collingwood v Melbourne.

Not sure how what every other league in the world has to do with it, I'd guess you don't buy the claim that no other city in the world has 10 teams in a national comp, even more than 50% ... just the Yanks do it, the Poms, the Euros, SO WHAT no cultural cringe here.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Be honest it simply convenience, Melbourne v Collingwood is so different than Collingwood v Melbourne.

Not sure how what every other league in the world has to do with it, I'd guess you don't buy the claim that no other city in the world has 10 teams in a national comp, even more than 50% ... just the Yanks do it, the Poms, the Euros, SO WHAT no cultural cringe here.

Collingwood v Melbourne at the G is different to WCE v Melbourne at the G. What you're advocating is quite simply idiotic. The AFL may as well have no designated home grounds and just allocate games randomly so WCE have to play 5 home games in Melbourne 2 in Adelaide 2 in Sydney and 2 in Perth and other clubs play away games in Perth against non-WA sides. It's utterly ridiculous and has no hope in hell of ever coming to fruition so not sure why you waste your time pushing these hare-brained ideas or why I bother responding to them

 

[Kwality]

Collingwood v Melbourne at the G is different to WCE v Melbourne at the G. What you're advocating is quite simply idiotic. The AFL may as well have no designated home grounds and just allocate games randomly so WCE have to play 5 home games in Melbourne 2 in Adelaide 2 in Sydney and 2 in Perth and other clubs play away games in Perth against non-WA sides. It's utterly ridiculous and has no hope in hell of ever coming to fruition so not sure why you waste your time pushing these hare-brained ideas or why I bother responding to them

Home grounds are merely a convenience that underwrites the sale of memberships.
To suggest Collingwood v Melbourne is different to Melbourne v Collingwood at the same ground beggars belief, as well you know.

The AFL already allocate games randomly, some teams play in Tas more than others - now you'll say home games, one team is there by choice, choice to make money & the other team just follows ... the FIXture is itself random.

I go back to North v the Eagles that was played in Melbourne last weekend & it would have lost money, people didn't go - the AFL stump up that exercise - IF it was played in Perth it would have been well attended, would have made money, and would have serviced the excess demand for our game & would be un noticed in the oversupplied Melbourne market. North already have make up games in place for its members, its just another one.

Yes its different, its not a solution to the supply & demand issue in toto but its a start. I do accept you want to hang on to the past.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

One thing you're failing to take into account. This is a sports competition not a market economy.

 

[Kwality]

One thing you're failing to take into account. This is a sports competition not a market economy.

No I'm thinking about whats best for footy, in the same way I supported GWS retaining the Riverina & I'd suggest those who support whats best for Vic footy disagree with me.

 

[Blue1980]

No I'm thinking about whats best for footy, in the same way I supported GWS retaining the Riverina & I'd suggest those who support whats best for Vic footy disagree with me.

No I want what's best for footy. The Riverina has always been an AFL area and GWS were given a free kick to an established zone.

Don't mind the zones but not in traditional AFL strongholds

 

[Kwality]

No I want what's best for footy. The Riverina has always been an AFL area and GWS were given a free kick to an established zone.

Don't mind the zones but not in traditional AFL strongholds

The NRL see the Riverina as heartland too, &, weakening development GWS style there is a free kick to League.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

No I'm thinking about whats best for footy, in the same way I supported GWS retaining the Riverina & I'd suggest those who support whats best for Vic footy disagree with me.

No I'm thinking about what's best for footy, having an equal draft and salary cap as two of the key pillars of equalisation and every team playing 11 home and 11 away games.

 

[Kwality]

No I'm thinking about what's best for footy, having an equal draft and salary cap as two of the key pillars of equalisation and every team playing 11 home and 11 away games.

How many games do you play at the mandated home of the MCG - how many do you call home games, how many are your version of an away games? I can count them for you if/ WHEN you squib the answer !!!

You want an equal draft & salary cap but insist on an unequal Grand Final location, happy with a lesser travel burden, the players, their recovery - in the days of yore travel was a bus trip down the highway for Victorian clubs, the VFL, not the SANFL, WAFL, not Q ...

You don't want equal, be honest, you want any advantage you can keep ...... you need any advantage you take !!

 

[Marc_Remillard]

How many games do you play at the mandated home of the MCG - how many do you call home games, how many are your version of an away games? I can count them for you if/ WHEN you squib the answer !!!

You want an equal draft & salary cap but insist on an unequal Grand Final location, happy with a lesser travel burden, the players, their recovery - in the days of yore travel was a bus trip down the highway for Victorian clubs, the VFL, not the SANFL, WAFL, not Q ...

You don't want equal, be honest, you want any advantage you can keep ...... you need any advantage you take !!

What a bizarre post.

A club like Melbourne may not travel as much as the Eagles but the pay off of that is that our home ground advantage is no where near as much as your mob.

You keep on conveniently leaving that part out. I would much prefer my club having the Eagles home ground advantage and traveling 10 times a year

 

[Kwality]

What a bizarre post.

A club like Melbourne may not travel as much as the Eagles but the pay off of that is that our home ground advantage is no where near as much as your mob.

You keep on conveniently leaving that part out. I would much prefer my club having the Eagles home ground advantage and traveling 10 times a year

Home ground advantage, to the extent it exists, is a so State league expression - its on the road, its travel that is the challenge .... some clubs do, some don't. If its good enough for the Grand Final why should it not apply more widely. Remember good teams have to win everywhere.

As a Melbourne supporter perhaps you can explain how Melbourne v Collingwood at the G differs from Collingwood v Melbourne at the G - is it just the money, and does it explain why home & away is an outdated concept that results in excess supply in Melbourne and unserviced demand in SA & WA.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Only a small part of the Riverina is a traditional football stronghold, anything above Wagga is not, the game has been played in the Riverina for a long time like Canberra, but it still competes with reasonably strong other codes.

The vast majority of GWS draftees have come from North of Wagga in areas that football is competing with other codes.

Greater Western Sydney 13/43 (30.23%)

1. Isaac Cumming (Broken Hill, Far West)
2. Jeremy Finlayson (Culcairn, Riverina)
3. Matthew Flynn (Narrandera, Riverina)
4. Harrison Himmelberg (Mangoplah, Riverina)
5. Jacob Hopper (Leeton, Riverina)
6. Matthew Kennedy (Collingullie, Riverina)
7. Daniel Lloyd (Killarney Vale, Central Coast)
8. Harry Perryman (Collingullie, Riverina)
9. Will Setterfield (Albury, Riverina)
10. Zach Sproule (Albury, Riverina)
11. Jake Stein (Penrith, West Sydney)
12. Lachlan Tiziani (Broken Hill, Far West)
13. Zac Williams (Narrandera, Riverina)

Giants' zone: 12/13
Swans' zone: 1/13

Sydney 12/46 (26.08%)

1. Harry Cunningham (Turvey Park, Riverina)
2. Sam Fisher (Canberra, ACT)
3. Jordan Foote (Maroubra, East Sydney)
4. Isaac Heeney (Cardiff, Hunter)
5. Brandon Jack (Pennant Hills, East Sydney)
6. Kieren Jack (Pennant Hills, East Sydney)
7. Jarrad McVeigh (Pennant Hills, East Sydney)
8. Callum Mills (North Shore, East Sydney)
9. Sam Murray (Henty, Riverina)
10. Sam Naismith (Gunnedah, New England)
11. Dane Rampe (University of New South Wales, East Sydney)
12. Daniel Robinson (Mosman, East Sydney)

The 4 players bolded are from South Of Wagga to the VIC border, the rest are from North of Wagga where the code is not the undisputed leader.

**Thanks to Matchu for this.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Home ground advantage, to the extent it exists, is a so State league expression - its on the road, its travel that is the challenge .... some clubs do, some don't. If its good enough for the Grand Final why should it not apply more widely. Remember good teams have to win everywhere.

As a Melbourne supporter perhaps you can explain how Melbourne v Collingwood at the G differs from Collingwood v Melbourne at the G - is it just the money, and does it explain why home & away is an outdated concept that results in excess supply in Melbourne and unserviced demand in SA & WA.

If travel is the challenge then it is a challenge for the teams that travel to Perth 10 times a year to play against the Eagles. Hence home ground advantage.