By that logic only the 'right' use the term, I gather you consider me a righty then.
Yeah nah, I base my world views on practic - zero to do with fringe areas of the political spectrum.
I'm going to rationally suggest you look up the term.
Society/Culture Has cancel culture gone too far?
- Thread starter Sweet Jesus
- Start date
- Tagged users None
By that logic only the 'right' use the term, I gather you consider me a righty then.
Yeah nah, I base my world views on practic - zero to do with fringe areas of the political spectrum.
I'm going to rationally suggest you look up the term.
iBeng
Intentionally left blank
- Apr 3, 2012
- 58,148
- 66,409
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
What do you think determines what is the general perception of what is considered politically correct in a societal environment?
Society. Duh. We as a society thought 40 years ago very different things to what is widely acceptable now. Do you think generations before the current ones would have voted for things like same sex marriage? Society grows and changes with time and what was once acceptable changes with each new generation.
Its one of the big things, for me, about conservativism as a basis for political or physiological guidelines that makes zero sense. Nature in it self is about change. Sometimes big, sometimes very small, but theres a constant shift to enable balance. Conservativism demands adherence to structures that quickly outdate themselves.
So your definition of PC is 'don't be a dick to people'. Not many people want to be dicks to other people. Sure that sentiment is noble, the problem starts when the easily offended want to cancel / play victim and the majority must agree or risk being labeled as something they're not, or worse.
PC - as the definition I posted is not practical, for example, the woke folk honestly have brainwashed themselves that all white people are racist or that they should be guilt by association coz y'know they're white. That itself is textbook racism, but it's ok coz y'know white people.
Of course the woke folk are definitely a minuscule minority but fk they're loud and everyone else tags along coz y'know they don't wanna be seen as the 'bad'. Cowards.
That is not realistic nor practical, and sure there are some people / things that the easily offended rightfully have a gripe about, but no need to cancel trivial sh*t for everyone to appease the offended few.
iBeng
Intentionally left blank
- Apr 3, 2012
- 58,148
- 66,409
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
Is it possible you are upset at other people pointing out that some things that are being done are arsehole type things and being called out on it is causing you distress?
Of course things change in society, have been since the beginning of humanity. That is not an issue for anyone, all progressive ideals come about only if they're practical.
Cancelling / removing trivial words / things to appease the few is not what most people (the quiet centred who have little if any time for fringe ideologues) consider practical.
Progression is a wonderful form of evolution ONLY if it is practical, otherwise it falls on its own sword.
Hope that makes sense to you, I'm sure you'll get it.
I'm not 'upset or distressed' about anything. Those 'arsehole things' are not reflective of the mind set of broader society - they're reflective of the few assholes that are in society - far right groups like supremacists, misogynists' and the like.
Broader society, certainly in this country are not those assholes. The over reaction and the one size fits all cancel anything and everything approach only appeases the few and is the reason why it has attracted terms like PC and wokeism.
Unfortunately dickheads from the fringe right aren't as stupid as they are discriminatory and use these terms as an antagonizing tool, and anyone fringe left screams the sky is falling in and believes anyone right of fringe left is part of that arsehole group i:e the rest of the world, when that is clearly not the case.
So it's let's cancel this for everyone coz the 'whole world is against us'!
Does that make sense?
Anything coming from either side of the 'culture wars' is just corporate marketing. When was the last time you've heard anyone talk about Mr. potato head or Dr. seuss? Genius.
Yes, there is a culture where people write each other off for saying or doing shitty things once in their life. The idea that people are irredeemable. That is cancel culture.
What isn't cancel culture is not renewing an actress' contract because she tweets something stupid about jews that no company would want to be associated with, or HBO putting a text up explaining that racism is bad before a movie that they are still showing in full. Only bored morons and grifters would try and spin something out of that s**t.
Yes, there is a culture where people write each other off for saying or doing shitty things once in their life. The idea that people are irredeemable. That is cancel culture.
What isn't cancel culture is not renewing an actress' contract because she tweets something stupid about jews that no company would want to be associated with, or HBO putting a text up explaining that racism is bad before a movie that they are still showing in full. Only bored morons and grifters would try and spin something out of that s**t.
A lot different to you, sure. Not to me. End of the day, they're all leveraging empty platitudes to make more bank ie. marketing.
Although I suppose there's always the possibility that a critical mass of Hasbro execs actually do feel strongly about inclusivity, and their actions are being driven by that belief rather than the almighty dollar, which by your rationale would no longer mean it's "bad faith". Seems like a long shot to me though.
Last edited:
- Sep 17, 2019
- 22,341
- 35,391
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Moderator
- #2,085
Do you think Hasbro is relying on people like you to keep this conversation going for months, as part of a viral marketing strategy?
iBeng
Intentionally left blank
- Apr 3, 2012
- 58,148
- 66,409
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
So by this logic which you seem to want to apply to everything, was Germany wrong to cancel Nazi symbolism? Isnt it important to keep it around in order to educate people that its...I dont know, wrong?
Where do you cross the line, who gets to decide it and how is it enforced?
You cross the line when society deems it required to do so, society is who decides it and society is ultimately who enforces it.
The difference now compared to 20 years ago is a little old thing we are using right now: The Internet.
Why can’t your children read about behaviour that you disagree with? How are they going to learn about wrong and right if you can’t show them examples of things you think are wrong?
How are they going to learn about history? Will you just pretend everyone was nice to everyone in the past?
ps. The worst stories from the past are not dumbo, dr Suess or even enid blighton. It’s bugs bunny which is horrific. And no I’m not just referring to the anti Japanese and German cartoons from the war era. I’m referring to all of the bugs bunny cartoons. Horrific.
- Sep 17, 2019
- 22,341
- 35,391
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Moderator
- #2,088
bugs bunny is a show about violence and murder towards intelligent conscious beings with the full range of human emotions. it humanises all its animal characters and then shows it’s completely fine too violently attack and murder those humanised characters as long as they belong to a different sub group compared to your own. It effectively says it’s not only ok but expected that you violently attacking people from other groups. It basically non stop through out the show is encouraging hate crimes.
It also shows none of the ramifications of violence beyond a bruised bump on the head or floating off into the clouds as an angel playing a harp.
It also had a character whose sole goal is to physically sexually abuse females. whenever he is on screen that’s all he is doing.
They can read about it as long as it's in the context of the set of morals I'd like them to learn. It's why they won't see much Christian propaganda and as far as they're concerned, Christmas is about family and not about fairy tales. Every parent wants to teach their kids morals, but they're all slightly different so all curate their childrens' content differently.
Did you know Dumbo's name is Jumbo and Dumbo is the nickname given to him to pick on him. And his mum gets locked up for protecting him. Maybe you could argue it teaches kids that life's not fair, but I'd rather they learnt not to call people names. To me, the overall message is too negative. Don't get me started on Sleeping Beauty: A tale of sexual assault.
Faux violence is different to real violence if that's the horror of Bugs Bunny you're referring to? I don't let them see Saving Private Ryan with people being blown apart, but Wil E. Coyote's rocket blowing up making him turn ashen I will allow.
To be fair, I haven't watched Bugs Bunny and neither have the kids, so I haven't seen if it's appropriate or not.
But I do teach them about the food chain and that snakes eat mice, foxes eat chickens (one even took a bit out of one of ours).
iBeng
Intentionally left blank
- Apr 3, 2012
- 58,148
- 66,409
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
Are you telling him how to parent correctly? Because the previous generation went your ideal route and look at some of the groups going around today spewing neo-nazi s**t.
I closing follow what my daughter watches and reads and I occasionally veto some things that, while I could sit down and explain to her why what she sees isnt accurate anymore, I know her 6 year old brain is far to young and absorbent to properly comprehend it.
- Sep 17, 2019
- 22,341
- 35,391
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Moderator
- #2,092
Boomers warned us about video games too. Then they boarded the Q bus and we know how that worked out.
neuroscience suggests the boomers were right on video game violence leads to more violence. It does make us have more aggressive thoughts. While most people can control these thoughts there are some that can’t and these people become more violent as a result of the more aggressive thoughts.
The boomers were wrong on just about everything else regarding video games however.
iBeng
Intentionally left blank
- Apr 3, 2012
- 58,148
- 66,409
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
Yeah, I reguarly resort to using my buster sword to cut things in half when I get angry. Damn you FF7 for twisting my adolescence!
Parenting isn’t a relativst concept. It’s objective. on a probability basis there are right and wrong ways to parent. Humans are biological machines after all that respond in similar ways to certain stimuli. The response may not always be uniform but it often is similar.
and did you just conclude that the rise in neo nazism is due to people telling other people how to parent? does re-reading that line again now sound ridiculous in your head too?
i veto my kids from watching bugs bunny because science tells me it may make them more agressive. In particular more aggressive to other groups. They bombard you with this message continuously. plus the shows are unfunny uneducational rubbish.
I don’t veto my kids on watching shows that are either educational or entertaining because a small segment of these shows involved an unflattering racial sterotype. I explain to them where the racial stereotypes come from, why they exist and why they might lead to an unjust perception of people from certain subgroups.
So unless it makes everyone violent then it makes no one violent? Is that your argument?
the science is pretty clear here. We can see it in the way brains respond. We see it in behaviours in large samples. And the larger the sample the more obvious the impact.
people who watch more violence have more aggressive thoughts. most of those people don’t respond to those thoughts violently. Although it does change their moods. But some do Respond to those thoughts violently. if they didn’t have those aggressive thoughts they would be less violent.
this is not a theory. This is what the evidence tells us.
do you want to start debating against the weight of science that tells us climate change is happening because you haven’t noticed it?
iBeng
Intentionally left blank
- Apr 3, 2012
- 58,148
- 66,409
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
So you've canceled Bugs Bunny, just like society is looking at things like pepe le pew and deciding maybe a very rapey skunk isnt best for their kids?
You said the research you mention concluded the video games DO cause increase in violence or at least the acceptance of it as a reality, but thats a very big blanket claim...everyone absorbs things differently and a lot of that is down to the individual and the parenting and a whole host of factors. No one way of parenting is perfect every time. Hell, we are living in a time that is so far removed from what nature intended for us that having any real base line of how parenting should be is impossible.
Take the example of our nearest animal examples. Monkeys teach their young using physical response methods. So they hit them if they need to be disciplined. We've, as a society, decided NOT to do that. And we can make that call. But nature shows its the best method for preventing harm through actions when teaching the next generation. Is the solution to start hitting kids again? No, because we all know some parents dont know the difference between a smack and a beating. Hence why we have attempted to outlaw it legally.
We are way to complicated as a civilization and to vast as a society to please everyone, its never going to happen, but if we collectively can look back at certain things and think "You know what? Lets not use that anymore as content for our future generations because maybe they dont need to see the same things we did."
And at the end of the day, the OWNERS of the content are the ones who can make the call. The OWNERS of the books of Seuss are the ones who decided to stop printing those books. No where did they request everyone burn all the current printed ones. Its not 1984.
My main issue with Cancel Culture is that it does nothing (or at the most, very little) to solve the issue it has raised.
Whether that be an individual who is racist, sexist, biased etc, it will silence the individual at best. It does very little to resolve the issue, likely pushing those with 'wrong' thoughts underground, which can lead to long term rise of extremist views.
A lot of the above issues are quite nuanced, both in how their comprehended, and how they're solved. For something like racism, it likely requires education programs whether at schools, sporting clubs, community groups etc to explain the issue, but also how it will be resolved.
We can grandstand as much as we want on the issues, sending out an angry tweet, liking a youtube video, or attending a rally, but until you deal with the crux of the issue, its unlikely to be mitigated in the short-medium term, if at all.
Whether that be an individual who is racist, sexist, biased etc, it will silence the individual at best. It does very little to resolve the issue, likely pushing those with 'wrong' thoughts underground, which can lead to long term rise of extremist views.
A lot of the above issues are quite nuanced, both in how their comprehended, and how they're solved. For something like racism, it likely requires education programs whether at schools, sporting clubs, community groups etc to explain the issue, but also how it will be resolved.
We can grandstand as much as we want on the issues, sending out an angry tweet, liking a youtube video, or attending a rally, but until you deal with the crux of the issue, its unlikely to be mitigated in the short-medium term, if at all.
Of course we're speculating on the motive behind the marketing, either way, whether genuine in being inclusive in gender neutrality or just a grab for $$ - still using a platform to achieve whatever end. Not necessary, and all it really does is give the woke folk unwarranted ammo.
'See Hasbro has done it, let's cancel anything and everything that might offend someone somewhere'
Instead of, giving anyone and everyone a choice to buy their product, with a warning label in front of it. If they feel aggrieved because it has a Mr or Mrs in front of it then one can choose to boycott it complain to the company whatever.
At least then those who couldn't give a flying about Mr and Mrs are free to have choice instead of it being taken away for no necessity.
The latter is surely more practical, surely.
