Society/Culture Has society become better or worse over the past 30 years?

[Seeds]

Thought it would be interesting to discuss whether society (ranging from Day to day living in our local communities to the state of human civilisation across the planet and everything in between) has become better or worse in your mind. The negative news cycle combined with our subconcious idolization of the past tends to make us naturally think things are getting worse. But is that actually true?

List the things you think are better and the things you think are worse. The following are some of mine.

Better: poverty

despite on-going global population growth not only have world poverty rates fallen but even poverty levels themselves. In many western economies poverty levels has fallen so low that we had to redefine poverty as a measure of inequality because poverty levels under the traditional measure have basically disapeared. concerns about widespread food shortages were significant 30 years ago but arent now with dramatic improvements in food productivity. Major poverty events somewhere on the planet seemed to happen every 5 years but there hasnt been one of similar level since the mid nineties.

worse: within country inequality.

Neoliberalism went to far. lack of fiscal/education support from those left behind by rising globalisation. Fiscal policies have also supported boomers over younger generations. consumer rights have not improved and appear to have become worse in some cases. Houses have become investment assets rather than homes. Public schooling has fallen behind relative to private schooling.

better: political power of religion has continued to weaken.

religions just dont have the same power to influence political processes as they once did across most countries (the one exception in western economies being US abortion policy). Australia used to ban abortion across most states because of religious influence. Not anymore. Religion lost fights on marriage, lab based food engineering, sex protection, and its losing its fight on euthanasia. Religion still has too much influence on education but mostly we are in a far better place today in regards to the religious control over our lives.

better: time spent doing chores.

before the internet the amount of time people had to spend doing basic chores was comsiderably higher. Banking, buying food and shopping, paying bills, organising events or dinners, washing clothes, cooking food. This all took so much more time in the past because we didnt have the technologies and communication chanels we have today.

better: food.

the variety and quality of food 30 years ago was abysmal compared with today. You would be stunned to see the limited variety of items stacked on super marker shelves 30 years ago compared with today. Likewise with how much worse fine dining restaurants were back then. Many of them would be considered average pub food today.

better: entertainment.

Streaming has been an absolute game changer in terms of access to music, t.v, and movie content. how terrible was it when we just had 4 tv channels and had to watch things with ads and at specific times. Not to mention the fact all shows back then were one off episodes where the story had to wrap up in twenty minutes with a simple moral outcome. Gees do you remember how bad late eighties and early nineties sitcoms were (except the Simpsons)? it was also very hard to find music that wasnt pop music because radio was the only avenue to hear new music without spending 30 dollars on a random cd.

better: Action on climate change.

30 years ago climate scientists and anyone else who read climate science were incredibly scared. Baseline forecasts had ongoing linear long run growth in global emission forecasts for 50-100 years which were pointing to 5-10 degree average temperature rises. Disaster movie outcomes. While the world wont stop climate change from occuring it is on the pathway from preventing those scary baseline scenarios from occuring. Solar and wind generation has come on in leaps and bounds. Evs have become reality after being nothing but a pipe dream twenty years. Hydorgen also now has signfiicant promise in industry.

worse: impacts of climate change. extreme weather is now more obvious and is now impacting peoples lives.


worse: nuclear weopans.

thirty years ago only major economies had nuclear weopans and it did appear the world was on a path that would eventually eradicate them. Unfortunately i dont need to explain where the world is today with nuclear weopans. It is incredibly scary.

Better: violence

violence rates are well down compared to where they were 30 years ago. This includes domestic violence and overall murder rates among others.

better: treatment of minorities

Rates of racism, homophobia and transphobia are all dramatically lower then they were 30 years ago. Does everyone remember that basically everyone used to say "thats gay" when they wanted to claim something was lame or disgusting in the mid nineties. Literally almost everyone. Good luck saying that today in a public place.

neutral: socialising

hard to rate this one. For many this will be highly subjective. Technology and cultural views has dramtically changed the nature of how we socialise. From the way we meet potential partners, from the way we communicate, from the activities we undertake, from the access work has to our lives, from the variety of options for social groups we can join and from the variety of ways we can express ourselves to others. The change has been dramatic. In some cases its been dramatic improvements but in others ways its become much worse.

better: holidays.

try organising an overseas holiday 30 years ago and compare it to today. Enough said.

worse: Appreciation of democracy.

worse: depression of young people

depression rates of teenagers and young adults in the last 10 years have risen dramatically. Particularly for socially progressives teenagers/adults. My hypothesis is this is linked to both the housing crisis, bullying on social media and the rise of woke ideology (wont get into this here as its a more in depth discussion) but regardless of the cause there has been a disturbing trend.

Worse: rise of authoritarian values

Itseems that today many people dont understand the value of democracy and are drifting either deliberately or unknowlingly towards authoritarinism values. We have seen the impacts of this politically in Russia, Turkey, China, Italy, India, Israel and the US Republican party among others.

ok thats my list. The majority of things on this list are for the better. I think day to day living has dramatically improved for most people. However at the same time not all boats have lifted, let alone equally, and there are some extremely big trends emerging that could undo everything.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Worse: the rise of the far right around the world, rich getting richer bigger wealth gap,pitiful efforts by major emmitters on climate change, the speeding up of animal extinctions, plastic found everywhere on earth, deforestation all around the world, Murdoch more and more influence in politics, scientists marginalised, pandemics to be the norm , overpopulation.

Better: medical advances, sharing of information, some countries like China and India pulling millions of people out of poverty.

 

[schneebly111]

Worse: mass media pandering to the lowest common denominator and journalism degrading to be nothing more than promotion for vested interests and fearmongering against vulnerable groups.

Better: some (not all) alternative media that has been able to be seen over social media platforms like YouTube

Worse: a lot of alternative media that promotes fearmongering against vulnerable groups being able to find a platform on social media

 

[the_interloper]

Worse: the rise of the far right around the world, rich getting richer bigger wealth gap,pitiful efforts by major emmitters on climate change, the speeding up of animal extinctions, plastic found everywhere on earth, deforestation all around the world, Murdoch more and more influence in politics, scientists marginalised, pandemics to be the norm , overpopulation.

Better: medical advances, sharing of information, some countries like China and India pulling millions of people out of poverty.

How do you figure?

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

How do you figure?

Inevitable consequence of environmental degradation and thawing out of frozen viruses from the past and other causes.

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[Big Papa Ted]

This is quite a good thread idea, kudos.

Worse: Connectivity/sense of belonging within a local community. People today have far greater feelings of isolation/loneliness imo, no one seems to know their neighbours etc.

This is purely anecdotal though, so happy to be challenged and proven wrong (would hope to be tbh).

 

[Seeds]

This is quite a good thread idea, kudos.

Worse: Connectivity/sense of belonging within a local community. People today have far greater feelings of isolation/loneliness imo, no one seems to know their neighbours etc.

This is purely anecdotal though, so happy to be challenged and proven wrong (would hope to be tbh).

in general we have definately lost connection to our neighbours and locals at the pub. Church communities have dwindled as well.

But have we gained access to new communities in their place?

niche communities are much more common now.

it would be interesting to see stats on loneliness and see if it has actually become worse.

 

[Cap]

I think personally we've failed on two fronts.

Education- hence the rise in far right
Equality- as above.

We allowed our education system standards to drop and we lost focus on creating opportunities for people to grow.

I'm a 100% Capitalist, but you need to make sure it's working for everyone as ultimately it falls over if it isn't

 

[mr bagcroft]

oh worse. Much worse.
The internet and social media has rotted minds.
People in general are absolutely ****ed these days.
Outside friends and family, best avoided at all costs.

 

[the_interloper]

oh worse. Much worse.
The internet and social media has rotted minds.
People in general are absolutely ****ed these days.
Outside friends and family, best avoided at all costs.

I'd say you don't get the best picture of people from social media, the Instagram/FB posts are a highlight reel, not their actual life. And for some reason people talk to others in comments section in ways they would never talk to them IRL, if people treated social medial like an in person conversation it would be much more constructive (and boring I suppose).

Most people are alright, don't know if there are more or less dickheads these days.

 

[evolved2]

I honestly think Australian society peaked in the 90's. Not just in some ways, but almost every conceivable way.

Music, movies, freedom for parents and children, the glory days of AFL forwards, affordable property, more enjoyable cars, the more sincere and less socially damaging early stages of the internet, journalism before clickbait sites like news.com.au, and far less political bullshit from both sides. I feel priveleged to have been a teen during the 90's.

 

[Seeds]

I honestly think Australian society peaked in the 90's. Not just in some ways, but almost every conceivable way.

Music, movies, freedom for parents and children, the glory days of AFL forwards, affordable property, more enjoyable cars, the more sincere and less socially damaging early stages of the internet, journalism before clickbait sites like news.com.au, and far less political bullshit from both sides. I feel priveleged to have been a teen during the 90's.

i think there are pros and cons. To play devils advocate:

You can access 90s movies and music much more easily today then you could in the 90s. Plus tv was absolute garbage in the 90s. Both in terms of access and content. And there was no internet to read at night.

people were much more racist and homophobic in the nineties And transphobia was so rampant there wasnt even a word to describe it

food quality was poorer.

costs for basic services were so much higher. Most people couldnt afford flights domestically let alone internationally. Phone calls were expensive. Post office and bank queues were awful.

workplaces were still highly discriminatory against women.

violence rates were higher in the nineties. Mental health problems went undiagnosed.

we remember what is better about the past but tend to ignore what was worse. Trump has a created a whole political movement that idolizes a fake past.

 

[Cap]

i think there are pros and cons. To play devils advocate:

You can access 90s movies and music much more easily today then you could in the 90s. Plus tv was absolute garbage in the 90s. Both in terms of access and content. And there was no internet to read at night.

people were much more racist and homophobic in the nineties And transphobia was so rampant there wasnt even a word to describe it

food quality was poorer.

costs for basic services were so much higher. Most people couldnt afford flights domestically let alone internationally. Phone calls were expensive. Post office and bank queues were awful.

workplaces were still highly discriminatory against women.

violence rates were higher in the nineties. Mental health problems went undiagnosed.

we remember what is better about the past but tend to ignore what was worse. Trump has a created a whole political movement that idolizes a fake past.

As a 90s kid, I agree with you.

I vividly remember in the early 00s using 'that's gay' as an insult, to someone who identified as gay. Insert cringe here, I was horrified.

90s was awesome, but we've come a long way since.

Except with EDM , 90s is still peak.

 

[royale with cheese]

Cons:
Music was better 30 years ago
Cinema sucks now
Footy in general much worse than the incredible run we got from 1990-2010, where it felt like the game was modernising and improving every year.

Pros:
Food is better now
Internet generally a net positive
Air travel far more affordable, can take my family overseas on holiday. Unheard of when I was a kid.
Photography - I treasure the fact I have so much of my family. Earlier generations you had maybe three photos, and before that nothing. Tremendous loss.

No change:
TV is about even (hit its peak in 2000s and 2010s but is mostly garbage now again)

 

[schneebly111]

we remember what is better about the past but tend to ignore what was worse. Trump has a created a whole political movement that idolizes a fake past.

That’s a proven physiological fact. We remember positive stuff more than negative stuff.

We forget whatever worries we’ve had that never eventuated.

 

[schneebly111]

people were much more racist and homophobic in the nineties And transphobia was so rampant there wasnt even a word to describe it

The hate comes from the same people, the targets just change. People were racist towards the Irish in the 19th century and early 20th, the Southern Europeans in the mid 20th century, Asians in the mid 19th century gold rush, 70s with boat people scare, the 90s when Hanson come n the scene and then the last few years with the “war on China”. Muslims would’ve copped it worse between 2001 til near recently. Indigenous Australians forever.

One could say trans people are copping it worse now than 10 years ago.

 

[ElectricG]

Better, but in a way that has made everyone feel worse.

 

[Seeds]

Cons:
Music was better 30 years ago
Cinema sucks now
Footy in general much worse than the incredible run we got from 1990-2010, where it felt like the game was modernising and improving every year.

Pros:
Food is better now
Internet generally a net positive
Air travel far more affordable, can take my family overseas on holiday. Unheard of when I was a kid.
Photography - I treasure the fact I have so much of my family. Earlier generations you had maybe three photos, and before that nothing. Tremendous loss.

No change:
TV is about even (hit its peak in 2000s and 2010s but is mostly garbage now again)

Agree on photography. we have so many photos and vidoes now that they will be awesome to reflect back on in 30 years. We have very little in regards to the nineties.

 

[Seeds]

The hate comes from the same people, the targets just change. People were racist towards the Irish in the 19th century and early 20th, the Southern Europeans in the mid 20th century, Asians in the mid 19th century gold rush, 70s with boat people scare, the 90s when Hanson come n the scene and then the last few years with the “war on China”. Muslims would’ve copped it worse between 2001 til near recently. Indigenous Australians forever.

One could say trans people are copping it worse now than 10 years ago.

I wouldnt say trans people are worse off now then 10 years ago. Most people are far more accepting of trans people today then they were even 10 years ago. All the media debate around trans concern how far trans rights should go. its not about unwinding rights that previously existed. Although im sure that some trans people feel worse off in that previously they flew under the radar of media attention and now its all out there being discussed.

but people arent making jokes about people dressed in drag and mocking them anymore. Nor mocking men who go through a sex change. That sort of mocking behaviour still existed 10 years.

 

[schneebly111]

but people arent making jokes about people dressed in drag and mocking them anymore. Nor mocking men who go through a sex change. That sort of mocking behaviour still existed 10 years.

No they’re just targeting them for mass shootings and viciously protesting them wherever they are.

 

[evolved2]

i think there are pros and cons. To play devils advocate:

You can access 90s movies and music much more easily today then you could in the 90s. Plus tv was absolute garbage in the 90s. Both in terms of access and content. And there was no internet to read at night.

I question whether the internet has added overall quality to our lives. Social media has created a new source of issues that weren't there in the 90's.

people were much more racist and homophobic in the nineties And transphobia was so rampant there wasnt even a word to describe it

True.

food quality was poorer.

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

costs for basic services were so much higher. Most people couldnt afford flights domestically let alone internationally.

Fair point.

Phone calls were expensive. Post office and bank queues were awful.

The line frequently goes outside the doors at my local post office.

workplaces were still highly discriminatory against women.

violence rates were higher in the nineties. Mental health problems went undiagnosed.

Is mental health generally better today than the 90's?

we remember what is better about the past but tend to ignore what was worse. Trump has a created a whole political movement that idolizes a fake past.

Interesting point.

 

[Seeds]

I question whether the internet has added overall quality to our lives. Social media has created a new source of issues that weren't there in the 90's.

True.

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Fair point.

The line frequently goes outside the doors at my local post office.

Is mental health generally better today than the 90's?

Interesting point.

I think the internet has created so many benefits that we have forgotton what life was like before it. However i agree there are some negatives and some very big negatives at that.

its created new and more extreme avenues for bullying which is causing major problems with teens. Its creating privacy and monitoring issues. Its created new avenues for propoganda that is pushing politics towards authoritarinism. If this last part succeeds in ending democracy then it will undo all benefits of the internet.

On the food point I would say food variety is far higher then it used to be (We have access to so many different cultures foods now), health content is also higher (they dont salt and sugar food as much as they used to), vegan and vegetarian options are not extremely rare anymore and the taste of food is much higher. What used to be considered fine dining is now just regular restaurant food now.

on mental health i think the answer is complicated. Minorities are given more respect in modern society which should help with their mental health. I.e. we have expanded peter singers altruistic circle to include more of society. Reduced violence in society should also be helping with mental health. People are also better at identifying mental health problems now so more people with problems get treatment. The treatment hasnt changed all that much but more people are getting access to it now.

At the same time social media has created new avenues for bullying, particularly among teenagers that authorities havent got a good control on. new social ideologies have also emerged among the youth which also are counterintuitive to what mental health experts recommend and this may also be contributing to mental health problems amoung the younger generations. Then in the usa at least there is the rising drug abuse problem which also would be adding to mental health problems. Covid lockdowns also probably had an impact but you would expect that to be temporary.

 

[Seeds]

No they’re just targeting them for mass shootings and viciously protesting them wherever they are.

i think you would find violence rates against trans people was higher in the past (far far too high unfortunately). Not dismissing it as a problem today. It clearly still is. But it was probably worse before.

 

[Cap]

Didn't we have the Spice Girls and boys bands in the 90s , not sure all music was better.

With Mental Health, I dare say it just wasn't understood.

I would dare say it was prevalent, just called something else

 

[Seeds]

Didn't we have the Spice Girls and boys bands in the 90s , not sure all music was better.

With Mental Health, I dare say it just wasn't understood.

I would dare say it was prevalent, just called something else

And billie ray cyrus, the macarena, vanilla ice and savage Garden.