hawks v pies

[michael80]

Our definicies in the key postion posts were greatly exposed today, ( as I feared). Why the coaching staff left Dawson at full back against Rocca baffles me. Even in the first half it obvious that he just did not have the body strength to match Rocca and as a consquence had to play 10 -15m off him. What good is it going to do the kid's confidence to be humilated like he was today?? I think Clarkson's doing a good job, but he was outcoached, out thought today IMO

 

[Fat Tony]

i went to the game today, im a hawk supporter and i was gutted by our performance as well as who we selected for our starting 22.

we pick too many short pathetic little players, the size difference from the collingwood player to ours was disgraceful but what really annoyed me was the players who we didn't pick:

boyle: took 7-8 marks against richmond during pre season great game good contested player who can run well for his size and is very tall and reliable... were the hell was he

Max baily: 206 cm ruckman great player and the first person i have seen take a contested mark against ben rutten... you have to be good to do that but he also posesses a good level of skills... take him for tim clark any day.

Mathew little: cousion of James hird roughly the same size and shape as james and he looks a bit like him, kicked two goals in a half against the bombers in the preseason and i have high hopes for this guy.

why does hawthorn always persist with the same little short players that do nothing but act like passangers? tim clark, rick ladson and michael osbourne as well as the taller but still pathetic players such as zac dawson and clinton young do nothing. Our side can only be as good as its weakest links and these players are very weak my solution kick these players out and put in boyle, max baily, matt little, lance franklin and camble brown (small but very good player)

Go hawks

 

[RustyHawk]

What were the options though?

Move Campbell to Rocca leaving Spida to do all the ruck work for 2qrts?

Dare I say it, good learning experience. Rocca just had a purple patch and it wouldnt have really mattered who played on him.

The Collingwood plan was simple. Grab the ball, run hard for 10m and kick it to the 3 big guys in the square (Fraser, Tarrant or Rocca) - there system worked and worked well, even Tarrant kicked a goal.

 

[OneEyedHawk]

i went to the game today, im a hawk supporter and i was gutted by our performance as well as who we selected for our starting 22.

we pick too many short pathetic little players, the size difference from the collingwood player to ours was disgraceful but what really annoyed me was the players who we didn't pick:

boyle: took 7-8 marks against richmond during pre season great game good contested player who can run well for his size and is very tall and reliable... were the hell was he

Max baily: 206 cm ruckman great player and the first person i have seen take a contested mark against ben rutten... you have to be good to do that but he also posesses a good level of skills... take him for tim clark any day.

Mathew little: cousion of James hird roughly the same size and shape as james and he looks a bit like him, kicked two goals in a half against the bombers in the preseason and i have high hopes for this guy.

why does hawthorn always persist with the same little short players that do nothing but act like passangers? tim clark, rick ladson and michael osbourne as well as the taller but still pathetic players such as zac dawson and clinton young do nothing. Our side can only be as good as its weakest links and these players are very weak my solution kick these players out and put in boyle, max baily, matt little, lance franklin and camble brown (small but very good player)

Go hawks

Boyle is close to my favourite player, but he hasn't earnt a walk-up start yet. Goes missing too often, and deserved a spell in the 2's.
Bailey is a Ruckman who'll take time, sure he's impressed so far, but he's not yet ahead of Campbell or Spida.
And Little's done nothing. I'm all for playing the kids, but they have to earn their spot to some degree.

You lost me with the 'pathetic' description of Ladson, Dawson and Young.

 

[Binxy]

Dermie was right though - leaving Dawson there for that long did nothing for his confidence (at the same time, it did wonders for Rocca's) - it was Schwabesque to not make the change sooner.

We were exposed today in KP areas but I don't think Clarkson helped - I guess he's still new to the caper as well and hopefully has learnt from today.
I thought our midfield was outstanding for the most part - Sammy, Hodgey, Lewis etc. but our young kids got bumped off the ball too easily. You may have a point, Fat Tony, that we can't take Ozzy, Timmy and Ladson into the game as it's just too many light bodies.

What bothered me the most was the mindset after a while, that if there was a contested ball, we (with the exception of the midfield) would wait for them to get the ball and then attempt a tackle/bump. We need to eradicate that from our game.

On the plus side, I don't think I've ever been more wrong about a bloke as I was about Robbie Campbell - this guy is impressing me out of sight and Simon Taylor will now struggle to ever get another senior game with Robbie in such good form.
Also, it may have been (20 minutes of) junk time, but we didn't just lie down.

For the second week in a row I think we really missed Buddy - can't wait to see him back.

It's going to be a long, learning experience in Geelong next week.

 

[Alex_au]

It's going to be a long, learning experience in Geelong next week.

Hopfully we see shades of 1999

 

[buddy23]

i went to the game today, im a hawk supporter and i was gutted by our performance as well as who we selected for our starting 22.

we pick too many short pathetic little players, the size difference from the collingwood player to ours was disgraceful but what really annoyed me was the players who we didn't pick:

boyle: took 7-8 marks against richmond during pre season great game good contested player who can run well for his size and is very tall and reliable... were the hell was he

Max baily: 206 cm ruckman great player and the first person i have seen take a contested mark against ben rutten... you have to be good to do that but he also posesses a good level of skills... take him for tim clark any day.

Mathew little: cousion of James hird roughly the same size and shape as james and he looks a bit like him, kicked two goals in a half against the bombers in the preseason and i have high hopes for this guy.

why does hawthorn always persist with the same little short players that do nothing but act like passangers? tim clark, rick ladson and michael osbourne as well as the taller but still pathetic players such as zac dawson and clinton young do nothing. Our side can only be as good as its weakest links and these players are very weak my solution kick these players out and put in boyle, max baily, matt little, lance franklin and camble brown (small but very good player)

Go hawks

Against Collingwood we were caught short, but...

Lance Franklin is injured...
Campbell Brown is suspended...
Max Baily is good, but not mobile enough to justify a spot when we've got spider and campbell...
Boyle is fairly inconsistent...

And I have a lot of time for Tim Clarke.

I agree that Dawson was left on Rocca too long, and watching him come off I felt really sorry for the kid. Other than that, we got beat for around 10 minutes in the third and that was it. Scarily similar to last weeks game, unfortuantly this time we were getting blown away.

Next week will be a tough ask. All I hope is that we show geelong that we're not soft, and that campbell brown shows mooney what a realy tough guy is like.

 

[Fat Tony]

Boyle is close to my favourite player, but he hasn't earnt a walk-up start yet. Goes missing too often, and deserved a spell in the 2's.
Bailey is a Ruckman who'll take time, sure he's impressed so far, but he's not yet ahead of Campbell or Spida.
And Little's done nothing. I'm all for playing the kids, but they have to earn their spot to some degree.

You lost me with the 'pathetic' description of Ladson, Dawson and Young.

I see your point OneEyedHawk but seriously lets be honest here the rubbish that those players put out there today was disgraceful. Ladson, Dawson and young were pathetic and did nothing to help our side (dawson 5 goals in one quater kicked on him). It surprises me that you would think otherwise.

We need more height more strength, players like Boyle, Bailey and Little offer what our team desperately needs i dont care how inexperienced they are we need them!

I mean what you said about boyle doesn't make sense! "Goes missing to often" what the hell do you think happened out there today for 3/4 of our side! that they didn't go missing! Where were they when collingwood were running all over us? Where were they when our real champions were strunggling against the tide? Where were they when collingwood was belting players like everit, mitchel and crawf? Ill tell you where they were... on the ground staring helplessly into oblivion... lost, disgraced!

Im sick of mediocracy and i believe we need to at least give Boyle, Baily and little the chances that too many other lesser players on our side get.

Go hawks

 

[hyperswivel]

Extremely dissapointing effort today. Glad I wasn't still coasting on the expectations that last week delivered.
There seemed to be a real lack of energy to the game from where I was sitting. Chance Bateman went hard for the ball... but that was were our attacking approach ended. As far as defence, we didn't flood... we barely even trickled back to the defensive fifty. The first half was very promising. We kept the ball moving forward whenever we got it, but were let down by weak marking forwards. At many stages the only option was Mark Williams who was almost always well covered by his man. Dixon presented most of the opportunities but after the roof closed, we just couldn't deliver it into the forward line. So that's it. Blame it on the roof.

 

[mattyc2422]

Young was clearly our best, but it shows something wrong with the 'structure' when he takes our most marks.

Mitch and Hodge put in, and Dicko was servicable.

Leaving Dawson on a rampaging Rocca was an abomination. Roughie wasn't getting a sniff up forward and should have been moved much earlier. Zac will either learn alot and come out the better player, or his confidence will be shot for a long long time. Should see some time at City Oval.

We can't use Croad as a forward. He doesn't hold enough marks for a prime target and his kicking can be iffy. Much more effective down back I reckon.

We let Dane Swan have 28 possessions. Bad. Bad. Bad.

At the game I was livid with both Clarko and Dawson, but on reflection I feel more towards Clarko. Dawson would have been much more suited on Tarrant or Fraser.

Clarko was utterly out coached and his own pigheadness with regards to not moving Dawson cost us the game. We had options. Croad, Roughead, even Bob. Everyone in that crowd could see that Dawson was being outplayed and it was torturous to leave him there.

No doubt Dawson played a stinker, but the coaches usage of him was beyond shocking.

 

[Paracetamol Merchant]

Campbell Brown is suspended...

when is he back?

 

[Fat Tony]

Young was clearly our best, but it shows something wrong with the 'structure' when he takes our most marks.

i agree... who would you bring into the side to fix this problem?

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

We can't use Croad as a forward. He doesn't hold enough marks for a prime target and his kicking can be iffy. Much more effective down back I reckon.

This is the part that puzzles me. We have a deficiency of quality talls to play defensive roles, and yet we play one of the best CHBs in the game up forward.

 

[michael80]

agree with adelaide hawk and mattyc. croad should definitely be at CHB. we need his strength and experience back there as well as his rebounding ability from defence. 2-3 years in the gym and dawson will match it with any key forward - but he's too raw to play key position now - especially without help.
I'm all for giving young guys a go, but give them a chance.

I'm used to losing by now, but to make it easy for the opposition through obvious mismatches that the coaching staff should've a) recognised early and b) done something about while the game was still 'on' really cuts me up.

 

[doppleganger]

Young was clearly our best, but it shows something wrong with the 'structure' when he takes our most marks.

Mitch and Hodge put in, and Dicko was servicable.

Leaving Dawson on a rampaging Rocca was an abomination. Roughie wasn't getting a sniff up forward and should have been moved much earlier. Zac will either learn alot and come out the better player, or his confidence will be shot for a long long time. Should see some time at City Oval.

We can't use Croad as a forward. He doesn't hold enough marks for a prime target and his kicking can be iffy. Much more effective down back I reckon.

We let Dane Swan have 28 possessions. Bad. Bad. Bad.

At the game I was livid with both Clarko and Dawson, but on reflection I feel more towards Clarko. Dawson would have been much more suited on Tarrant or Fraser.

Clarko was utterly out coached and his own pigheadness with regards to not moving Dawson cost us the game. We had options. Croad, Roughead, even Bob. Everyone in that crowd could see that Dawson was being outplayed and it was torturous to leave him there.

No doubt Dawson played a stinker, but the coaches usage of him was beyond shocking.

mitchell was easily ur best, easily.

dane swan had a quiet game compared to his adelaide game!!

pies left our rookie o'brien on dicko & dicko kicked 5, bet o'brien learnt heaps from the outing

croad was ur only target up forward, willo & roughy were doing nought, croad would present but not end up with the ball, but at least he was somebody to kick to

hawks need time

 

[RustyHawk]

What a bunch of whinney old girls having a big sook. Get that hanky out of your blouse and have a big blow..... wipe your eyes... there feel better.

We have a young, inexperienced list that is not yet ready to have a major tilt at the premiership and ALL you guys know that.

Everyone's blaming Dawson. How about the idiots allowing those kicks, those well directed flighted and weighted kicks to Rocca? Then Rocca himself, he had a purple patch, he could do no wrong. He's never kicked 8 before, it was his day and he made the most of it & good luck to him.

I saw Dawson & Roughie both get towelled by another big man in Sydney's Barry Hall in the last game of 2005. They got moved at half time and Hay went on him & shut him down till he went off... but... here's the butt, no Jon Hay this year. Dawson & Roughie have to learn.

Dawson should only be dropped if his own confidence in his ability is down. If not, keep playing him. He did well last week, got beat this week so he's 1 & 1. Lets hope its 2 & 1 next week.

Were all hungry for some success but its still 2008 - 2012 when I believe our youth policy comes to the fore. We just have to make sure we don't ruin it like St Kilda seem to have done.

Cheers
S

 

[JuddyisGod]

I have Roughead in Dream Team and am a bit worried about his lack of points in the season so far. Has he just had a couple off games or will this be expected from him for most of the season.

p.s. I can't wait to watch the Hawks in 2008 when all your young guys have developed. I think you will be quite a force, your recruiter is doing a great job.

 

[mollyfud]

We all have to be patient. The team will take time to develop but the signs are good. I would expect that Roughy or Croady might sneek back this week if Buddy plays but Zac should be given another chance.

The kids got the fire and he'll be alright in the long run.

JMTC
Molly

PS. Can't wait till round 4 v Carlton when I might be able to go see a match! Between Tassy game, Moving house and tickets pretty much being sold out for Geelong, its been a long wait for the footy season to really start! GO HAWKS!!!!

 

[cosby]

there is nothing pathetic about clinton young.

 

[Binxy]

What a bunch of whinney old girls having a big sook. Get that hanky out of your blouse and have a big blow..... wipe your eyes... there feel better.

Your a people person, right?

Everyone's blaming Dawson.

Well, no - everyone's unhappy with Clarkson's decision to leave Dawson on Rocca for so long because, well, we actually enjoy winning . Mustn't be able to read properly from so high up.

 

[Lord_Espos]

It was a dissapointing game but Clarkson should have gotten the message out for the team to slow the play down. That's what Adelaide did to Collingwood the week before when they were getting the run on.

As for Dawson he was overmatched and at the same time Rocca hit a purple patch. We should have had Croad (big body) on him after he kicked his third goal. He's not really a true forward option.

 

[Roughie]

Look let the kid play, if he is getting towled its not going to boost his confidence by just benching him. He would of learnt alot from the game and boys his gonna have alot more learning over this year because there will be more games where bags will be kicked on him. You cant expect the kid to come out whos a good 15 kg lighter and has only played a handful of games to shut out one of the most experienced and dangerous forwards.

I think the win in the first round delusioned alot of us hawthorn fans. WE are gonna be frustrated alot this year but you have to expect that being the youngest team in the league, Yes it is making excuses for our losses but you cant sit now and think at the start of this season you expected everything to be an easy win and our backline werent gonna get killed.

Lets just try take in the factors of how young and inexperienced our team is before we get frustrated with players.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

We all knew at the start we lacked quality tall defenders, certainly experienced ones. If we knew it then other AFL coaches would know it as well. We can expect other clubs to attack long and direct when they play us this season. It's up to us to devise a strategy to prevent this from happening, or at least minimse its effectiveness.

 

[DynamoUltra]

there is nothing pathetic about clinton young.

Was better than Thomas, but Thomas is ahead in the Rising Star pecking order because he was recruited at #2 and Collingwood won.

 

[hyperswivel]

What a bunch of whinney old girls having a big sook. Get that hanky out of your blouse and have a big blow..... wipe your eyes... there feel better.

We have a young, inexperienced list that is not yet ready to have a major tilt at the premiership and ALL you guys know that.

Couldn't agree more. Yet when I raised this point last week, I was shouted down! I have no expectations for this year at all. I hope we can better last years five wins, but I have no expectations.