NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 2

[Wosh]

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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf


DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wtf are you on about??? They did touch the Hawthorn thing. Made a huge splash with it.

Of course they did. Go back and read what was written and maybe you’ll comprehend the argument.

This is about the media towing the line, and not making enemies at AFL house.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Unless I've missed something....

Wouldn't there be a number of reasons that the media have left this one largely alone?

The most obvious is that they're leaving it alone due to culturally sensitivity surrounding it.

Others could be that the whole thing is bullshit, the AFL has warned their media off it, or that lawyers have warned them off it.


Maybe I have missed something. You and the other dude that laughs hysterically at everything everyone posts seems to know that the media have dropped this for some other reason?

Maybe they are waiting for the outcome of the investigation before casting judgement. I know it is a novel idea for most of the posters in this thread.

 

[FlyHigh18]

You bet I do. There's a tonne of s**t that media don't touch, like the the threats that your boy has been making to women and their families.

Do you remember how not one AFL journo would question how James Hird's 'nutritional advisor' and convicted ped pusher ended up in the EFC supply chain?

Do you know who the girl was that Hueskes, McLoughlin and P.Burgoyne took turns on one night?

I could go on.

Text book generalisation to try and make a conspiracy true ^
Will find a handful of cases, but ignore a million other examples proving the opposite.

The answer is more often than not the most obvious ones staring you in the face mate, if you choose not to ignore them as well.

• Is there any new information since it was last reported?
• Is there enough proof to avoid defamation?
• Is it relevant?

 

[the big lebowski]

Text book generalisation to try and make a conspiracy true ^
Will find a handful of cases, but ignore a million other examples proving the opposite.

The answer is more often than not the most obvious ones staring you in the face mate, if you choose not to ignore them as well.

• Is there any new information since it was last reported?
• Is there enough proof to avoid defamation?
• Is it relevant?

* has Caro already called everyone in football trying to drum up dirt and come up empty?

 

[JackOutback]

Fully agree. It was an ambush taking the accused by surprise. They were never making a comment, and I assume were given a chance

They effectively made their comments over the next few days.

An ambush? How do you think this kind of story should be uncovered? Drip feed them information for a few weeks so they aren't surprised?

Thing is, if the allegations are true, they were never taken by surprise... it was just a matter of time until the hammer dropped. And if it's not true, you would have expected a full-throated response and injunction, not a qualified defence.

 

[Forward Press]

An ambush? How do you think this kind of story should be uncovered? Drip feed them information for a few weeks so they aren't surprised?

Thing is, if the allegations are true, they were never taken by surprise... it was just a matter of time until the hammer dropped. And if it's not true, you would have expected a full-throated response and injunction, not a qualified defence.

Same posters would be saying the article should not have been published without comment offered first by Clarkson et al as a matter of journalistic integrity or ethics or whatever buzzwords they need to use.

Logically, this means that any person could kill a damaging story forever by simply refusing to say anything. The ABC could have gone ahead with the story without even contacting them, but they did, and gave them ample and fair opportunity to respond according to all reports (unless you subscribe to the 'fake news' line of thought or think Eddie McGuire is the beacon of truth). Perhaps they should not have gone public with the specific names that early - fair enough - but considering they were named in the Egan report and the contents of the report were leaked to the public not long after the ABC article, little damage has been done.

 

[Square Peg]

An ambush? How do you think this kind of story should be uncovered? Drip feed them information for a few weeks so they aren't surprised?

Thing is, if the allegations are true, they were never taken by surprise... it was just a matter of time until the hammer dropped. And if it's not true, you would have expected a full-throated response and injunction, not a qualified defence.

And what if it's both true and not true, you know, like two conflicting versions of a conversation? Remotely possible? I guess not.

 

[perplexed]

An ambush? How do you think this kind of story should be uncovered? Drip feed them information for a few weeks so they aren't surprised?

Thing is, if the allegations are true, they were never taken by surprise... it was just a matter of time until the hammer dropped. And if it's not true, you would have expected a full-throated response and injunction, not a qualified defence.

The coaches were clearly ambushed by the article, but there is nothing wrong with that if the journalist is confident in their story.

However, you shouldn't be reading anything into either the coaches non-response before publication or bland denials afterwards. The ABC and Jackson wouldn't have expected a response within the time given and the coaches statements afterwards would have read exactly as their lawyers advised.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Text book generalisation to try and make a conspiracy true ^
Will find a handful of cases, but ignore a million other examples proving the opposite.

The answer is more often than not the most obvious ones staring you in the face mate, if you choose not to ignore them as well.

• Is there any new information since it was last reported?
• Is there enough proof to avoid defamation?
• Is it relevant?

One of our very fine Admin(Grizzlym) here who is now sadly passed had a very strong connection to the AFL and it’s clubs.

I’ve forgotten more than half the stuff he had shared with me over the years that the AFL accredited media knew to go easy on or completely leave alone.

Everything from captains selling signed premiership jumpers on the side to get some extra cash, to coaches getting busted rooting staff.

In many ways the AFL is one concocted stage show, and the bottom line is $$$. Everything else plays for second place.

This current investigation looks like it’s going to be squared away with little if any fallout(financial sanctions and weasel words that don’t directly impact any specific individual currently in the game, would be my guess), and those who want to get to the bottom of it all will be left wanting, but this isn’t an uncommon theme amongst the AFL, it’s clubs and their history of scandals.

Plenty of people like me understand what we’re watching, and know that the AFL and their clubs(mine included) are all about the bottom line and doing anything they can to protect that. It’s not a conspiracy, when we’ve seen it time and time again.

 

[perplexed]

One of our very fine Admin(Grizzlym) here who is now sadly passed had a very strong connection to the AFL and it’s clubs.

I’ve forgotten more than half the stuff he had shared with me over the years that the AFL accredited media knew to go easy on or completely leave alone.

Everything from captains selling signed premiership jumpers on the side to get some extra cash, to coaches getting busted rooting staff.

In many ways the AFL is one concocted stage show, and the bottom line is $$$. Everything else plays for second place.

This current investigation looks like it’s going to be squared away with little if any fallout(financial sanctions and weasel words that don’t directly impact any specific individual currently in the game, would be my guess), and those who want to get to the bottom of it all will be left wanting, but this isn’t an uncommon theme amongst the AFL, it’s clubs and their history of scandals.

Plenty of people like me understand what we’re watching, and know that the AFL and their clubs(mine included) are all about the bottom line and doing anything they can to protect that. It’s not a conspiracy, when we’ve seen it time and time again.

Normally the press would be being backgrounded and leaked to by now. So far there's been nothing. I take this as evidence of the investigating panel's integrity and their independence from the AFL rather than a conspiracy.

 

[sr36]

Maybe they are waiting for the outcome of the investigation before casting judgement. I know it is a novel idea for most of the posters in this thread.

Yep. Fair enough for us to all have opinions, but we've got to remember they're just that. Media need something a bit more substantial. Jackson probably had that, maybe not. But there's no new news on it. Media shouldn't be running opinion pieces unless they have enough to form a supported opinion - it looks like they don't yet.

 

[Le Grille]

Could've sworn they offered to hold publishing to give Clarko a chance to respond.

I believe rusty jackson did give him and Fagan 24hrs to respond.

The report specifically excluded them as the report was about the indigenous players experiences

 

[Le Grille]

What I still can’t get my head around is that it’s take. So long to come to light. This situation being hidden for almost ten yrs is really unique in this industry

 

[Square Peg]

The coaches were clearly ambushed by the article, but there is nothing wrong with that if the journalist is confident in their story.

However, you shouldn't be reading anything into either the coaches non-response before publication or bland denials afterwards. The ABC and Jackson wouldn't have expected a response within the time given and the coaches statements afterwards would have read exactly as their lawyers advised.

Additionally the ABC Jackson article was published two days before the grand final, I assume for maximum impact, unless it was just a coincidence of course. Waiting around for the coaches to respond would have derailed that timing.

 

[yodellinhank]

What I still can’t get my head around is that it’s take. So long to come to light. This situation being hidden for almost ten yrs is really unique in this industry

Not really unique. The Collingwood stuff would've taken a similar time to come to light. It's also probably a bit naïve to think it's definitely isolated to just the two clubs, I'd be far from shocked if there's stuff still being hidden that went on in the league.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Not really unique. The Collingwood stuff would've taken a similar time to come to light. It's also probably a bit naïve to think it's definitely isolated to just the two clubs, I'd be far from shocked if there's stuff still being hidden that went on in the league.

Yeah, hardly unique:

AFL club Western Bulldogs rocked by historical child sexual abuse scandal

Western Bulldogs chief executive Ameet Bains says the AFL club is "shocked and dismayed" by revelations the club was the scene of horrific child sexual abuse for much of the 1980s.

www.abc.net.au

 

[peetoo]

When you can’t turn aggression on and off like a tap

 

[faible]

Additionally the ABC Jackson article was published two days before the grand final, I assume for maximum impact, unless it was just a coincidence of course. Waiting around for the coaches to respond would have derailed that timing.

You don't think they'd have planned for a GF week publication in advance when they went to the coaches asking for a response, and allowed sufficient time for that to play out?

 

[faible]

Normally the press would be being backgrounded and leaked to by now. So far there's been nothing. I take this as evidence of the investigating panel's integrity and their independence from the AFL rather than a conspiracy.

I suspect after being bullied in to having to engage an independent panel, the AFL subtly told the journo's to focus on other stories until such time as there's a finding, or a noteworthy leak pops up.

 

[perplexed]

I suspect after being bullied in to having to engage an independent panel, the AFL subtly told the journo's to focus on other stories until such time as there's a finding, or a noteworthy leak pops up.

Does the AFL give out subtle briefings to all journos who cover it? Especially on an issue like this which is of interest to non-AFL accredited ones, it just seems a bit crackpot.

 

[faible]

Does the AFL give out subtle briefings to all journos who cover it? Especially on an issue like this which is of interest to non-AFL accredited ones, it just seems a bit crackpot.

You've never noticed reporting on the AFL has a general theme of the week to it? You'd have to be pretty naive to believe the AFL doesn't set the tone and have strong links to the major media outlets.

For those who don't regularly report on the AFL, there's been no known leaks or further information to the story, so nothing to report there until the next AFL update or there's some kind of leak.

 

[sr36]

Not really unique. The Collingwood stuff would've taken a similar time to come to light. It's also probably a bit naïve to think it's definitely isolated to just the two clubs, I'd be far from shocked if there's stuff still being hidden that went on in the league.

The Collingwood review isn't a good comparison. Nothing new regarding direct racism came out in the Collingwood review, because it wasn't looked for. They were only reviewing our responses to the well known incidents regarding racism - they didn't review these instances themselves or look for other instances of direct racism. Guys like Krak and Leon weren't even part of the review, because they weren't involved in any of the incidents in question, nor the clubs response.

 

[yodellinhank]

The Collingwood review isn't a good comparison. Nothing new regarding direct racism came out in the Collingwood review, because it wasn't looked for. They were only reviewing our responses to the well known incidents regarding racism - they didn't review these instances themselves or look for other instances of direct racism. Guys like Krak and Leon weren't even part of the review, because they weren't involved in any of the incidents in question, nor the clubs response.

I thought Leon (and krakouer) were part of it, so there you go. But would that actually reinforce that issues can take as long or longer to be made public?

 

[sr36]

I thought Leon (and krakouer) were part of it, so there you go. But would that actually reinforce that issues can take as long or longer to be made public?

It was really badly reported on The review itself only looked at Collingwoods responses to well known events, so new things like what has been accused about Hawthorn couldn't have come out - even if they occured.

But you're right, things often stay hidden for ages. After the review Krak and Leon revealed to the press some racist things that had occurred with teammates. Things that they'd kept secret at the time.

 

[EconomicDecline]

‘Can’t guarantee I won’t do it again’: Clarko’s surprise call after threatening comment to reporter

‘Can’t guarantee I won’t do it again’: Clarko’s surprise call after threatening comment to reporter

www.foxsports.com.au