"He dropped it!"

[rickyp]

As another round goes by, I still wonder whether people think that 'dropping the ball' is a free kick... I see countless threads complaining about the umpires, so it makes me wonder if this isn't the only rule that people don't understand.

I would consider myself to have a reasonably advanced knowledge of the rules, as an umpire of a relatively decent standard I read the rulebook every few rounds to keep myself fresh with the rules. I've umpired for a while now too, which only helps.

So I was curious, how many of you think you have a good grip on the rules? And honestly, how well do you think you know them? Obviously I'm not alone in understanding the rules, and I'm sure there are people here who could teach me plenty.

And for the record, there is no free kick for dropping the ball, assuming there has been no prior opportunity and you are attempting to dispose of the ball you can drop it all you like

 

[Tigerfish]

Nice one Ricky. Must admit I was taught as a junior if you didn't kick or handpass it was incorrect disposal and a free against (including dropping in a tackle). Now that I've actually read the rules I realise you are correct.

However I have noticed recently a lot more where the ball spills free (dropped) in a tackle after there WAS prior opportunity and these are not paid. Seems the umpires are more interested in seeing the ball move clear of the contest.

 

[rickyp]

Nice one Ricky. Must admit I was taught as a junior if you didn't kick or handpass it was incorrect disposal and a free against (including dropping in a tackle). Now that I've actually read the rules I realise you are correct.

However I have noticed recently a lot more where the ball spills free (dropped) in a tackle after there WAS prior opportunity and these are not paid. Seems the umpires are more interested in seeing the ball move clear of the contest.

A lot depends on how/why the ball spilled free, if the player's arm is knocked which causes the player to lose possession, it is play on, similarly if the player is bumped and the ball is knocked free, it is also play on. These are the two instances which draw a lot of confusion, most likely because the crowd simply do not now that this is the case.

In my opinion, a lot more education on the rules could be done to help this.

http://afl.com.au/portals/0/afl_docs/Laws of Football_2011.pdf (page 49)

 

[telsor]

Agree with the interpretation of the law, although I do think some (all?) AFL players are milking it...In a 2 on 1 situation, the ball seems much more likely to 'accidentally' spill free in a tackle if the 3rd player is from the tackled players side.

Of course, short of mindreading, this is practically impossible to adjudicate.

 

[entourage]

Agree with the interpretation of the law, although I do think some (all?) AFL players are milking it...In a 2 on 1 situation, the ball seems much more likely to 'accidentally' spill free in a tackle if the 3rd player is from the tackled players side.

Of course, short of mindreading, this is practically impossible to adjudicate.

I agree, i and i think a lot of the time also players will have no prior and get tackled, but then drop the ball raise their hands and get a free kick for holding the man. Can be frustrating

 

[jacko57]

As another round goes by, I still wonder whether people think that 'dropping the ball' is a free kick... I see countless threads complaining about the umpires, so it makes me wonder if this isn't the only rule that people don't understand.

I would consider myself to have a reasonably advanced knowledge of the rules, as an umpire of a relatively decent standard I read the rulebook every few rounds to keep myself fresh with the rules. I've umpired for a while now too, which only helps.

So I was curious, how many of you think you have a good grip on the rules? And honestly, how well do you think you know them? Obviously I'm not alone in understanding the rules, and I'm sure there are people here who could teach me plenty.

And for the record, there is no free kick for dropping the ball, assuming there has been no prior opportunity and you are attempting to dispose of the ball you can drop it all you like

I have heard the odd smug pedant at a game declare "There is no such rule as Dropping The Ball!'

No there isn't, but there is a rule against incorrect disposal, when tackled properly, and after the tackled player had prior opportunity to dispose of the ball.

'Dropping the ball' is shorthand for that.

 

[Woodson]

It's a flawed rule loaded with hypocrisy. Stokes was running toward an open goal front and got chased down, tackled, dropped it like a HOT potato yet NO free was paid (Duigan mouthed off and Geelong got a soft free in front of goal less than a minute later)... then Stokes was running forward of the wing, got chased down by Jeffrey Garlett and free paid for 'dropping the ball' or tackle was 'rewarded' but on both occasions, Stokes had more than enough opportunity to dispose the ball and didn't.

So whether Geish is full of it (most likely) or the umps are instructed to play mind-games with everyone (highly likely also), there are two identical situations which contradict the rule. Anyway... the new age rules don't really happen.. it's all about the umps interpretation.

Anyone who is fit enough to run around the park can umpire AFL these days as long as they blow the whistle a few times and make half arsed guesses on a decision. That'll get KB & Geish's full support. That's all that matters.

 

[Gizza]

You would have to be blind to be watching the footy this year and not see that compared to years past the "dropping the ball" rule is being interpreted completely different to the point where incorrect disposal has been all but removed from the game entirely.

 

[criticize]

need 3 stats columss kicks, handballs and throws. this new interpretation is very bad for the game.

 

[kosifantutti]

As another round goes by, I still wonder whether people think that 'dropping the ball' is a free kick... I see countless threads complaining about the umpires, so it makes me wonder if this isn't the only rule that people don't understand.

I would consider myself to have a reasonably advanced knowledge of the rules, as an umpire of a relatively decent standard I read the rulebook every few rounds to keep myself fresh with the rules. I've umpired for a while now too, which only helps.

So I was curious, how many of you think you have a good grip on the rules? And honestly, how well do you think you know them? Obviously I'm not alone in understanding the rules, and I'm sure there are people here who could teach me plenty.

And for the record, there is no free kick for dropping the ball, assuming there has been no prior opportunity and you are attempting to dispose of the ball you can drop it all you like

Since when has the rule book had anything to do with how an AFL game is umpired?

 

[Summer Nights]

Dropping the ball deliberately is a free kick to the opposition every day of the work. A player must make a legitimate attempt to dispose, even without prior opportunity. If the ball is knocked free without there being prior opportunity, that's fair enough and play on, but if a player chooses not to attempt to properly dispose and lazily lets the ball drop, that's a free kick.

So yes, 'dropping the ball' is a free kick.

 

[rickyp]

Dropping the ball deliberately is a free kick to the opposition every day of the work. A player must make a legitimate attempt to dispose, even without prior opportunity. If the ball is knocked free without there being prior opportunity, that's fair enough and play on, but if a player chooses not to attempt to properly dispose and lazily lets the ball drop, that's a free kick.

So yes, 'dropping the ball' is a free kick.

Nope. If you're running open by yourself and drop the ball, what's the free kick? If you're tackled without prior opportunity, so long as you're making an attempt at the ball, you can drop it all you like. Quote me where it says 'dropping the ball' is a free kick.

 

[rickyp]

I have heard the odd smug pedant at a game declare "There is no such rule as Dropping The Ball!'

No there isn't, but there is a rule against incorrect disposal, when tackled properly, and after the tackled player had prior opportunity to dispose of the ball.

'Dropping the ball' is shorthand for that.

That's not what incorrect disposal is. I posed this example to the other poster, but if a player is running along, and loses control of the ball, in effect dropping it, what is the free kick?

 

[Summer Nights]

Nope. If you're running open by yourself and drop the ball, what's the free kick? If you're tackled without prior opportunity, so long as you're making an attempt at the ball, you can drop it all you like. Quote me where it says 'dropping the ball' is a free kick.

I meant if being tackled.

As a side note, I don't disagree with you if happens when a player has possession and is not being tackled. However, if the player hands it to an opponent or throws the ball then it's a different story.

It's weird, because the rules state what correct disposal is, but don't punish a player for incorrect disposal (in the form of dropping the ball) if the player is on his own. You could literally stand there, look the umpire in the eye, let go of the ball and it wouldn't be a free kick. I think it's a hole in the rules that was missed, as it rarely happens deliberately if a player is not being tackled.

 

[Last of the Roys]

Nope. If you're running open by yourself and drop the ball, what's the free kick? If you're tackled without prior opportunity, so long as you're making an attempt at the ball, you can drop it all you like. Quote me where it says 'dropping the ball' is a free kick.

I don't think it is about the letter of the law, but how it is interpreted that is often more important in AFL today.

I don't think you can deliberately drop the ball when you are being tackled no matter if you have prior opportunity or not. (Just like I don't think you can deliberately drop the ball on any other occasion because it doesn't fit the definition of a 'correct' disposal). That doesn't mean that umpires will always pay a free kick in that situation because like most other things it is subjective.

Making an attempt to dispose of the ball means making an attempt to legally handball or kick - that would not include deliberately dropping the ball. When a ball is dropped in such a situation accidentally, or it is knocked out by the tackle, then a free kick wouldn't be paid if there was no prior opportunity.

That is the way I see the current interpretation. Although IMHO they are very inconsistent in this area and too frequently give the benefit of the doubt to the player being tackled who often deliberately drop the ball but doesn't get a free kick awarded against them for incorrect disposal.

 

[rickyp]

I meant if being tackled.

As a side note, I don't disagree with you if happens when a player has possession and is not being tackled. However, if the player hands it to an opponent or throws the ball then it's a different story.

It's weird, because the rules state what correct disposal is, but don't punish a player for incorrect disposal (in the form of dropping the ball) if the player is on his own. You could literally stand there, look the umpire in the eye, let go of the ball and it wouldn't be a free kick. I think it's a hole in the rules that was missed, as it rarely happens deliberately if a player is not being tackled.

Absolutely correct, not denying a huge hole in the rules, you're spot on.

There are plenty of them too, and few are exploited. I was waiting for someone to stand just behind the man on the mark for years. I'm now waiting for someone to stand directly 5m behind the player tacking a set kick around the ground in a 3pt stance, and the second it's called play on they just hard rush the kicker. There are a few others which don't come to mind right now too.

 

[rickyp]

I don't think it is about the letter of the law, but how it is interpreted that is often more important in AFL today.

I don't think you can deliberately drop the ball when you are being tackled no matter if you have prior opportunity or not. (Just like I don't think you can deliberately drop the ball on any other occasion because it doesn't fit the definition of a 'correct' disposal). That doesn't mean that umpires will always pay a free kick in that situation because like most other things it is subjective.

Making an attempt to dispose of the ball means making an attempt to legally handball or kick - that would not include deliberately dropping the ball. When a ball is dropped in such a situation accidentally, or it is knocked out by the tackle, then a free kick wouldn't be paid if there was no prior opportunity.

That is the way I see the current interpretation. Although IMHO they are very inconsistent in this area and too frequently give the benefit of the doubt to the player being tackled who often deliberately drop the ball but doesn't get a free kick awarded against them for incorrect disposal.

Dropping the ball is not incorrect disposal. You can drop the ball if your arms are pinned, and you have not had prior opportunity. You can also drop the ball if you're swung around by one hand and lose control of the football. Even when you've had prior opportunity, and you 'drop' the ball without correctly disposing of the football, you are penalised for holding the football. The only free kick for incorrect disposal is a throw, or handing the football to a teamate.

Anyway, this is all besides the point! I was asking to what extent non-umpires and umpires feel they understand the rules. So, where do you all stand?

 

[Furn]

Nope. If you're running open by yourself and drop the ball, what's the free kick? If you're tackled without prior opportunity, so long as you're making an attempt at the ball, you can drop it all you like. Quote me where it says 'dropping the ball' is a free kick.

mumbo has point though.

If You get tackled and just drop it, That is making no attempt to correctly dispose of the ball, isn't it?

 

[Last of the Roys]

Dropping the ball is not incorrect disposal. You can drop the ball if your arms are pinned, and you have not had prior opportunity.

I don't think you can under the current interpretation, even if the umpires often don't pay it. Deliberately dropping the ball is an incorrect disposal in a tackle, even if you have not had prior opportunity. Whether an umpire pays incorrect disposal or holding the ball doesn't matter.

As to the point that a throw is the only incorrect disposal - obviously I don't think that is correct. Besides deliberately dropping the ball, I also think you are technically not allowed to merely 'hand off' a ball to a team-mate rugby style. You are also not allowed to put the ball on the ground and push it away when you are being tackled - I have definitely seen that paid incorrect disposal quite a few times.

I realise I am not going to convince you, but I don't really have any interest in continuing the debate. Maybe you should email Jeff Gieschen about it if you care so much - apparently he is actually really good at responding to (non-abusive) emails.