How far would $1bil go to...

[Bobby Giovanni]

... resolve the 100,000+ homeless problem in Australia?
... deal with the issues of outback Australia?
... solve the salinity problem in Australia?
... a grant to all home owners to install a water bore?

And what do you think we would benefit more from?

I also have a question re: donation to tsunami areas. Are they just replacing what was destroyed, or making things bigger and better i.e cinemas, golf courses, malls. Sorry to sound like a cynic, but I simply have not read anything about the dispersion of funds.

 

[Mead]

... resolve the 100,000+ homeless problem in Australia?
... deal with the issues of outback Australia?
... solve the salinity problem in Australia?
... a grant to all home owners to install a water bore?

And what do you think we would benefit more from?

I also have a question re: donation to tsunami areas. Are they just replacing what was destroyed, or making things bigger and better i.e cinemas, golf courses, malls. Sorry to sound like a cynic, but I simply have not read anything about the dispersion of funds.

It would also allow me to buy an absolutely kickarse stereo system and have everyone associated with the WCE around for an enormous binge drinking session, but methinks its better spent where it is.

The amount of money might seem considerable, but consider this. In general, for every person killed there might be at least 10 displaced- given that 80 000 people are presumed dead in Indonesia, it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that around a million people are displaced.

Even if every single dollar was just being deposited in affected persons bank accounts rather than being spent on emergency measures like food and so on, $1 Billion = $1000 Australian for each of those people.

Not bad, especially after you look at the exchange rate, but that's very likely going to have to support someone who is without a house or food or means of support for upwards of five years.

 

[nonchalance]

Unsure in general, but the list I've been given reads, in order:
Emergency accomodation.
Medical assistance.
Distribution of food & water.
Clothing.
Counselling.
Ongoing support for devastated communities.

Regardless, despite the fact I wouldn't want to suffer it, homeless people in Australia have it particularly good compared to the average villager from Aceh.

150,000 people are dead, ten times that have lost their homes, the number is climbing steadily, and you're worried about the drought?

 

[Bobby Giovanni]

Unsure in general, but the list I've been given reads, in order:
Emergency accomodation.
Medical assistance.
Distribution of food & water.
Clothing.
Counselling.
Ongoing support for devastated communities.

Regardless, despite the fact I wouldn't want to suffer it, homeless people in Australia have it particularly good compared to the average villager from Aceh.

150,000 people are dead, ten times that have lost their homes, the number is climbing steadily, and you're worried about the drought?

Yes. When we are crippled from drought and salinity in 20yrs, do you think the people of Aceh will return the favour?

 

[Qsaint]

Yes. When we are crippled from drought and salinity in 20yrs, do you think the people of Aceh will return the favour?

Thats because the Agricultural Socialists allow the farmers and loggers do what they wish. It is a disaster of our own making, not a natural one.

 

[Bobby Giovanni]

Thats because the Agricultural Socialists allow the farmers and loggers do what they wish. It is a disaster of our own making, not a natural one.

Which, say, a billion bucks could sort out?

 

[Qsaint]

Which, say, a billion bucks could sort out?

As you saw in the last election they don't want the money, they just want to chop down trees

 

[Bobby Giovanni]

As you saw in the last election they don't want the money, they just want to chop down trees

And have sex with relatives, but that's neither here nor there.

So, you're comfortable with all the money going there?

 

[utility]

$1bil ~= $100 per taxpayer... that's a lot of dosh.

 

[nonchalance]

Yes. When we are crippled from drought and salinity in 20yrs, do you think the people of Aceh will return the favour?

I think that in that case, it would be a very good idea for us to have strong links with nearby Asian nations.

Despite that, I don't have a particularly good argument that purely serves national interests, because I believe that doing the right thing is more important than looking after number one.
If that makes me an idiot, so be it.

 

[Bobby Giovanni]

I think that in that case, it would be a very good idea for us to have strong links with nearby Asian nations.

Despite that, I don't have a particularly good argument that purely serves national interests, because I believe that doing the right thing is more important than looking after number one.
If that makes me an idiot, so be it.

No, I follow your logic and agree with it, just playing devil's advocate to see if it's the best thing for us as a nation. Either way, I'll donate money, but I'm not watching that frickin concert.

 

[Qsaint]

And have sex with relatives, but that's neither here nor there.

So, you're comfortable with all the money going there?

From a humanist viewpoint Yes

From a defence prospective yes (JI have already sent large numbers there and a protestant Priest has been murdered)

If they wanted to spend the money here they would have.

 

[pazza]

Thats because the Agricultural Socialists allow the farmers and loggers do what they wish. It is a disaster of our own making, not a natural one.

Interesting point.

Acting Vic Premier Thwaites was in Mildura today talking about how the Vics, South Aussies, New South and the Murray-Darling Consultative Commitee are contributing to help river flows into the Murray and saving the River Red Gums as part of the project.

So maybe we are helping ourselves out.

 

[F-U]

I reckon 1 billion is really excessive in this case. John Howard said all this money would be directed to Indonesia. Now considering there is only about 20% of the Aceh population left (which i think is about 80 000 left. if that) do they really need 1 billion dollars. I mean since when was Indonesia and Thailand incredibly poor nations. Im sure they can afford to rebuild it themselves.. Im sure something could be organised where Indonesia pay off the loans with a small amount of interest. It seems to me that Australia will probably contribute more aid then Indonesia itself.. Theres helping and then there is doing the job for them in my opinion. For our GDP 1 billion dollars is overly excessive and i believe the donation has been increased in order to increase the Liberal parties popularity..

Im sure 1 billion dollars would be alot more helpful/needed in places such as Congo and Sudan...

 

[Former]

These two opinions often go hand in hand:

"We should spend money fixing our own problems before helping others."

"All these refugees should be sent packing. Bloody queue jumpers."

If no one did anything to help do you think we'd see an increase or decrease in the number of refugees from Asia?

As for the size and destination of the donation I am sure that in 10 or 20 years we'll be reading shocking stories in the newspapers about the rorting of these donations. But we should not turn our backs just because someone might steal some of the money. I'd guess that the cost of ensuring every penny got to where it "should" go would be about the same as the loss from theft and fraud of foreign aid. Doesn't mean you should just pour in money and walk away, but it does mean you should be realistic in expecting greedy people to have a go at stealing the cash and accept this as a cost of the business of foreign aid.

 

[PA HOG]

Bobby, as you know, nothing that is done will ever receive universal approval. I respect your right to have an opinion but I'm not too sure what it is. Frankly, I myself am finding it difficult to have an opinion because of the enormity and urgency of the problem as well as my lack of any expertise and experience in this field. What actions could this country take which would meet with your approval?

 

[demon_dave]

Bobby, as you know, nothing that is done will ever receive universal approval. I respect your right to have an opinion but I'm not too sure what it is. Frankly, I myself am finding it difficult to have an opinion because of the enormity and urgency of the problem as well as my lack of any expertise and experience in this field. What actions could this country take which would meet with your approval?

its the second decent thing the rodent has done since he's been in power the other was the gun amnesty after Port Arthur

 

[Bobby Giovanni]

These two opinions often go hand in hand:

"We should spend money fixing our own problems before helping others."

"All these refugees should be sent packing. Bloody queue jumpers."

If no one did anything to help do you think we'd see an increase or decrease in the number of refugees from Asia?

As for the size and destination of the donation I am sure that in 10 or 20 years we'll be reading shocking stories in the newspapers about the rorting of these donations. But we should not turn our backs just because someone might steal some of the money. I'd guess that the cost of ensuring every penny got to where it "should" go would be about the same as the loss from theft and fraud of foreign aid. Doesn't mean you should just pour in money and walk away, but it does mean you should be realistic in expecting greedy people to have a go at stealing the cash and accept this as a cost of the business of foreign aid.

Yeah, what he said.

 

[skilts]

I may be wrong about this, but I've heard that in fact the amount of $1 billion is somewhat inflated. Apparently, we have promised $500m in aid and have offered a LOAN of $500 M. Also, the $500 M in aid is really $250M EXTRA over 5 years in addition to the $250M we had already committed before the disaster.

Regardless of this, I'm in favour of our giving aid. I don't see it being in Australia's interests for the Acehnese to be shafted even further by the Indonesian Govt. I also think it would also be unconscionable for us to allow the Indonesian Govt to become destabilised. This would certainly not be in our interests. And, displaying similar priorities to those of the Aust. Govt, the people of Aceh probably need the help.