How long before Bryce Lewis gets arrested..

[GarnerSmash]

Disagree with you there. He was runners up in the North Ballarat Best and Fairest count for 2013.

It wasn't a VFL super draft though.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

2008 is looking less and less like a goldmine for us whereas 2009 is turning out to be an absolute cracker.

 

[Grogg]

Recruiters don't develop talent, they identify it. We've been second to none on the latter.

 

[UmpiringFooty]

It wasn't a VFL super draft though.

True but I wouldn't go calling Liam Anthony a VFL player. He's an AFL player who is trying to break into the team. We have got so many midfielders that it's so difficult for him. But he's trying. I'm guessing when you see him at training he trains until he vomits. The amount of work he's done is a lot more than what a VFL player would ever do. Both Liam Anthony and Sam Wright have had to look at different roles to help them break into the team. So whilst they are learning their new roles we can't afford to be so harsh on those two players.

 

[Kimbo]

Our excerpt from the article on the AFL site, re draft 'hits and misses'...

North Melbourne

Greatest hit: Brent Harvey
With a club record five best and fairest awards to his name, four All-Australian gongs and a premiership, Harvey is one of North's all-time greats. The Roos can thank opposition teams' concerns about his height (167cm) for him sliding to pick No. 47 in the 1995 national draft. Remarkably, the 2009-11 skipper was North's fourth pick in that draft, behind Scott Welsh (No. 17), Chris Groom (No. 26) and Sam McFarlane (No. 33).
Biggest miss: Dylan Smith
Peter Bell's move to Fremantle at the end of 2000 gave the Roos their first top-10 draft pick since 1992. With the first of those picks, No. 6, they took that year's Vic Metro captain Dylan Smith, confident his speed, endurance and prolific ball-winning would make him a lynchpin of their on-ball division. But after just 11 games in three seasons Smith was delisted. He got a second chance at Fremantle, playing another 10 games in two years before his AFL career ended at the end of 2005. North's second pick that year, at No. 8, was Daniel Motlop, who played 47 games in five injury-plagued seasons before crossing to Port Adelaide at the end of 2005. - Nick Bowen

 

[royals1922]

I don't know the exact numbers but from memory, 40% of drafted players never play an AFL game and even lesser play 20 games and even lesser play 50.

By way of counterpoint to the 2008, you only need look at 2003, where McKernan was traded and played 14 games, Trotter 7, Jones 6, Sansbury 40, Le Cras 6, Clayton as a rookie elevation 8 and Firrito was the sole success

Or you can go to the early days of the National draft where NM's record was somewhat average.

1986- 5 players drafted, 2 games
1987 - 5 players drafted 25 games
1989 - 8 players drafted, 32 games
1991- 9 players drafted , 61 games
1992 - 10 platers drafted, 151 games ( 82 from Capuano)
1994 -5 players drafted, 15 games

Drafting is an inexact science but Lewis is one of the best.

 

[adas]

Very harsh on Gibbo, a mature aged player thrown a lifeline who'd never featured at the level before Dazzler, considering his consistency and output. To go from the back of the queue to regular B&F vote getter is a major win in my books.

Correct me if im wrong, but didnt Gibbo get B&F votes in every game he played this year? the only player to do so.

Goes to show his professionalism and how he always plays to instructions. very important cog in our side is gibbo.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Our excerpt from the article on the AFL site, re draft 'hits and misses'...

Biggest miss: Dylan Smith

Imagine we got that draft right. We may have had more success in that 2007/08 period with a couple more elite players in the side.

Picks 6, 8 and 14. Smith didn't make it, Motlop didn't have the dedication and then went home, Harris was a solid player but couldn't go to that next level.

Players we could have taken include S.Burgoyne, K.Cornes, S.Thompson, Kerr, Richards, Newman or Cross. We did get Petrie, who has been a star, and C.Jones who was serviceable.

 

[Pykie]

I said it in another thread, but when Bryce sticks to the big name players of each comp, he usually hits gold, I think this is down to him interviewing the kids way more than any other recruiter, he places a fair emphasis on character etc.

His massive hits have been when he's targeted top 15 players of the TAC Cup etc, proven players at their level, ala Ziebell, Cunnington, Bastinac, Atley etc.

The likes of C.Delaney was the TAC Cup FB of the year, Curran was an absolute gun in the TAC Cup and probably in the 5 best talls in it, Wood was similar, all be it an overage player.

It's when he's reached for odd players without that backing that he's run into trouble, when he's gone for top 10 players in a team. Sammy Wright was a good player in a strong bushies team, but probably in their best 10 players, as opposed to comp wise, in hindsight (wonderful i know) it was a massive reach, picking him at 27.

Mullett is a great example of what he did well, whilst he wasn't a league wide gun, he was in a similar position to Sammy Wright, probably in the best 5 or so players of his side, and picked him in the appropriate spot, not 60 picks before hand like Wright.

Harper, did have the bloodlines, and remains a good pick, I think thats down to other issues rather than recruiting him, he fell into that category, and despite his lack of form atm, has shown he belongs at AFL level.

I have no problems with the Garner and Mckenzie picks. Garner was a gun of the TAC Cup and considered one of the most talented players in it, likewise, McKenzie was in the best 3 players in SA.

Wilkins, I don't want to lay shit on the kid, but it's got history written all over it, in the O'Keefe, Norris, Mabon mould, Bryce is yet to nail anything close to a smokie, so it doesn't bode well.

 

[NiceCunnington]

It's when he's reached for odd players without that backing that he's run into trouble, when he's gone for top 10 players in a team. Sammy Wright was a good player in a strong bushies team, but probably in their best 10 players, as opposed to comp wise, in hindsight (wonderful i know) it was a massive reach, picking him at 27.

Interesting to hear this. You have previously described Wright as "one of the most talented players on our list." Do you still rate him as a great talent or has your opinion changed? He has struggled to build strength and fitness due to injuries, but these are development issues. Your comments in the trade period in comparison to Karnezis also suggest you have had a massive change of heart on Wright recently.

I still have hope FWIW.

 

[Daz]

Very harsh on Gibbo, a mature aged player thrown a lifeline who'd never featured at the level before Dazzler, considering his consistency and output. To go from the back of the queue to regular B&F vote getter is a major win in my books.

Wasn't trying to have a crack at Gibbo (or Bryce for that matter). Mullett's what I would call a major win.

Maybe if I'd used the word 'tick' instead of pass I would've received less hate.

Disagree. On an AFL list 6 years later and an elite ballwinner. As in he is elite in the skill of finding the ball.

Disagree. Was looking a promising tall forward prospect and promoted well ahead of schedule. Given a new contract. You can't attribute his personal failings to Bryce having fluffed this pick. Was Greg Miller a shoddy recruiter because Carey had an indiscretion?

Pass. 3rd round in a rookie draft you net a key defender who 6 years later is sought after by other clubs? Great effort.

Speculated on a young ruck, didn't work out. No biggy.

Far too early to assess him or the rest of the draft pool

Anthony was a terrible pick. Go and have a look at the quality of some of 18 year olds still around. 6 years of substandard football shouldn't be a win in anyone's book.

NOK - They're responsible for the type of characters brought into the club.

Let's not forget how average Luke Delaney is. ****, am I allowed to call any of the picks a pass?

No issue with speculating on a young ruck. My issue was that he was always too bloody short.

Disagree with you there. He was runners up in the North Ballarat Best and Fairest count for 2013.

I like it when you disagree with me. Only then can I be certain that I'm correct.

 

[GarnerSmash]

I guess expectations differ on what we expect from each pick. Some want to draft a long term player with each pick, others see the logic in picking players who address short term needs. Nothing wrong with applying both strategies to the same draft.

Anthony came into our team and had an immediate impact. He provided outside run in a team which had none. As such he got heaps of the pill and made us a better team. That our team has improved to the point that he is no longer a best 22 player does not make him a shit pick. Wright stalling badly this year makes him a poor pick given that he was always a long term prospect and there have been plenty of young players taken after him who have developed ahead of him.

NOK could become a blessing in disguise given he had talent but his attitude issues may have assisted Lewis and Co. in developing their beliefs in bringing in good characters only.

 

[Kimbo]

****, am I allowed to call any of the picks a pass?

It's just the interwebs Daz. You're not talking with real people. ****, you're not even a real person; take it from me (I'm not a real person either).

 

[UmpiringFooty]

Wasn't trying to have a crack at Gibbo (or Bryce for that matter). Mullett's what I would call a major win.

Maybe if I'd used the word 'tick' instead of pass I would've received less hate.





Anthony was a terrible pick. Go and have a look at the quality of some of 18 year olds still around. 6 years of substandard football shouldn't be a win in anyone's book.

NOK - They're responsible for the type of characters brought into the club.

Let's not forget how average Luke Delaney is. ****, am I allowed to call any of the picks a pass?

No issue with speculating on a young ruck. My issue was that he was always too bloody short.





I like it when you disagree with me. Only then can I be certain that I'm correct.

The fact that you think that Liam Anthony is a dud is what I disagree with.
Do you even realise how many games some of these players you are telling us in you're mind that you think they are shit, have played in?

I can imagine the mods doing a list on all of us as a group picking out who are the trouble makers and who are good posters.
Ease up Daz. Don't be so harsh on the list.

 

[King Corey]

Anthony was a terrible pick. Go and have a look at the quality of some of 18 year olds still around. 6 years of substandard football shouldn't be a win in anyone's book.

Liam was a goalkicking high possession mature mid playing against men. It was a decent punt and on description he should've been Michael Barlow standard. In fact Barlow had to wait until the scraps draft of the same year for his shot.

You can't get everything perfect. The fact we got a bloke who was able to adapt to AFL pace and amass possession to me gives this choice a tick. Of course there's going to be nuances to a player (eg lack of physical intensity) that may be exposed in the long run, recruiters can't account for everything when they're trying to pluck blokes in the 40s.

NOK - They're responsible for the type of characters brought into the club.

That's comical mate. You reckon this is the first time someone might've passed every entry/character assessment and maybe, just maybe still had some undesirable traits? Caught up with the personnel issues in the army lately? Reckon they do any screening?

Let's not forget how average Luke Delaney is. ****, am I allowed to call any of the picks a pass?

You're a harsh marker. Late 3rd round in the rookie draft and we get a bloke who can play a critical position and has currency 6 years later.

No issue with speculating on a young ruck. My issue was that he was always too bloody short.

He was also mobile, a popular team player and had a very nice kicking action for a big guy. There were enough elements to have a crack considering it was pick 70-friggin-1. Are you suggesting we should just set the bar at 200cm and ignore any Drew Petries, Paddy Ryders or Nathan Vardys who appear along the way, who just might have the potential to go to other positions too?

It's easy to attack recruiting in hindsight. Some years (eg 2001) I agree we did royally botch. I just don't think these specific examples demonstrate it.

 

[SnowRoo]

Harper, did have the bloodlines, and remains a good pick, I think thats down to other issues rather than recruiting him, he fell into that category, and despite his lack of form atm, has shown he belongs at AFL level.

Haprs fell to where he did on the back of a lazy or disinterested tag. Really do hope this isnt his undoing long term as when hes on he has so much potential.

Had Ats not slide i think Harps would have been our first pick, really hope he gets a good run and gets motivated. In 2 years he could be a star on the rise or simply fade into obscurity.

 

[Daz]

It's easy to attack recruiting in hindsight. Some years (eg 2001) I agree we did royally botch. I just don't think these specific examples demonstrate it.

Just to be clear, I wasn't attacking the recruiting.

 

[King Corey]

Just to be clear, I wasn't attacking the recruiting.

Fair call. The rest of what I said stands but agree you were critiquing the results rather than attacking the man. To mix non-metaphors.

 

[Event Horizon]

I said it in another thread, but when Bryce sticks to the big name players of each comp, he usually hits gold, I think this is down to him interviewing the kids way more than any other recruiter, he places a fair emphasis on character etc.

His massive hits have been when he's targeted top 15 players of the TAC Cup etc, proven players at their level, ala Ziebell, Cunnington, Bastinac, Atley etc.

The likes of C.Delaney was the TAC Cup FB of the year, Curran was an absolute gun in the TAC Cup and probably in the 5 best talls in it, Wood was similar, all be it an overage player.

It's when he's reached for odd players without that backing that he's run into trouble, when he's gone for top 10 players in a team. Sammy Wright was a good player in a strong bushies team, but probably in their best 10 players, as opposed to comp wise, in hindsight (wonderful i know) it was a massive reach, picking him at 27.

Mullett is a great example of what he did well, whilst he wasn't a league wide gun, he was in a similar position to Sammy Wright, probably in the best 5 or so players of his side, and picked him in the appropriate spot, not 60 picks before hand like Wright.

Harper, did have the bloodlines, and remains a good pick, I think thats down to other issues rather than recruiting him, he fell into that category, and despite his lack of form atm, has shown he belongs at AFL level.

I have no problems with the Garner and Mckenzie picks. Garner was a gun of the TAC Cup and considered one of the most talented players in it, likewise, McKenzie was in the best 3 players in SA.

Wilkins, I don't want to lay shit on the kid, but it's got history written all over it, in the O'Keefe, Norris, Mabon mould, Bryce is yet to nail anything close to a smokie, so it doesn't bode well.

But Pykie, assuming you are correct with this logic (and I am not saying you're not) it is basically saying that Bryce is good when he selects the obvious guns from each comp (which I could probably do if I get a 1 year apprenticeship in footy recruiting). But when he tries to go outside the square, which at times you absolutely need to do, as there aren't many guns left beyond the second round picks, he hasn't got too many right. But I would have thought that it's actually those "smokies" that are the art of recruitment. How many guns of their comp are you going to get beyond pick 35-40?

Mullet is a good example as a rookie, but gee, if we only nail 1 of those out of every 10, it won't be good enough.

 

[Daz]

As a comparion...

8 - Vickery
26 - Post
58 - Hislop
PSD - Cousins
R - Nahas
R - Gourdis
R - Browne
R - Gilligan

3 - Martin
19 - Griffiths
35 - Astbury
44 - Dea
51 - Taylor
67 - Webberley
71 - Nason
PSD - Grimes
R - Hicks
R - Contin
R - Roberts
R - Westhoff
R - O'Reilly

6 - Conca
30 - Batchelor
47 - Helbig
51 - MacDonald
63 - Derrickx
PSD - Houli
R - Jakobi
R - Miller

15 - Ellis
26 - Elton
55 - Arnot
PSD - O'Hanlon
R - Maric
R - Darrou
R - Verrier
R - Turner
R - Wright
R - Heslin

9 - Vlastuin
31 - McIntosh
33 - McBean
42 - McDonough
R - Petterd
R - Lonergan
R - Stephenson
R - Williams

 

[Twinkletoes]

Wasn't trying to have a crack at Gibbo (or Bryce for that matter). Mullett's what I would call a major win.

Maybe if I'd used the word 'tick' instead of pass I would've received less hate.

Furry muff mate. No hate here just disagreeing with the posted assessment for that player. Good work putting your thoughts out there anyway.

Correct me if im wrong, but didnt Gibbo get B&F votes in every game he played this year? the only player to do so.

Goes to show his professionalism and how he always plays to instructions. very important cog in our side is gibbo.

Correct.

 

[Pykie]

But Pykie, assuming you are correct with this logic (and I am not saying you're not) it is basically saying that Bryce is good when he selects the obvious guns from each comp (which I could probably do if I get a 1 year apprenticeship in footy recruiting). But when he tries to go outside the square, which at times you absolutely need to do, as there aren't many guns left beyond the second round picks, he hasn't got too many right. But I would have thought that it's actually those "smokies" that are the art of recruitment. How many guns of their comp are you going to get beyond pick 35-40?

Mullet is a good example as a rookie, but gee, if we only nail 1 of those out of every 10, it won't be good enough.

Plenty, the offset of recruiters picking these top 10 team players, rather than league wide ones, pushes those types down the order.

In recent years: Tim Membrey, Mason Wood, Tanner Smith, Liam McBean, Mitch Grigg, Luke Dalhaus, George Horlin-Smith, Luke Parker, Alex Fasolo, Sam Reid, Alan Christensen, Nathan Vardy, Dayne Beams, Daniel Hanneberry, Rory Sloan etc............

These blokes were all absolute guns of their comps, close to the best players in their side etc.

 

[Daz]

5 - Hurley
23 - Zaharakis
55 - Still
67 - T.Slattery
PSD - Skipworth
R - Carroll
R - German
R - Bock
R - Klemke
R - Quinn

10 - Melksham
24 - Carlisle
26 - Colyer
33 - Long
PSD - Hardingham
R - Silverlock
R - Howlett
R - Crameri
R - Marigliani
R - Williams

8 - Heppell
31 - Steinberg
48 - Browne
64 - Davis
80 - Ross
PSD - Hibberd
R - Jenkins
R - Webster

19 - Kavanagh
31 - Merrett
59 - O'Brien
R - Dalgleish
R - Dell'Olio
R - Baguley
R - Hunter
R - Lee

Crameri, Hibberd, Howlett, Jenkins, Baguley and Hardingham. That's some quality recruiting from the state leagues by *.

 

[Event Horizon]

Plenty, the offset of recruiters picking these top 10 team players, rather than league wide ones, pushes those types down the order.

In recent years: Tim Membrey, Mason Wood, Tanner Smith, Liam McBean, Mitch Grigg, Luke Dalhaus, George Horlin-Smith, Luke Parker, Alex Fasolo, Sam Reid, Alan Christensen, Nathan Vardy, Dayne Beams, Daniel Hanneberry, Rory Sloan etc............

These blokes were all absolute guns of their comps, close to the best players in their side etc.

But you can get a bloody computer program to act as your recruiting manager in that case. Just rank each player in all TAC cup teams or just look at AA team, include SA and WA and just get the program to tell you who to pick.

 

[Daz]

6 - Yarran
40 - Robinson
65 - O'Keefe
80 - Tiller
PSD - Johnson
R - Garlett
R - Stanton
R - Bentley
R - Hill
R - Jacobs

12 - Lucas
43 - Davies
59 - Kerr
R - Cachia
R - Dare
R - Casboult
R - White
R - Donaldson
R - Tuohy

18 - Watson
34 - McCarthy
42 - Mitchell
67 - McInnes
70 - Duigan
R - Curnow
R - Twomey
R - Carter
R - Bray

22 - Bootsma
44 - Rowe
62 - Buckley
R - Bell
R - Heyne
R - Dale
R - Lodge

11 - Menzel
35 - Temay
54 - Graham
R - Cachia


Yuck