How many weeks for Mackay?

[pjcrows]

What happens if Mackay ends up with the injury.

Based on your logic, Clark gets suspended I guess.

 

[Mr Magic]

Based on your logic, Clark gets suspended I guess.

Yeah, I think he should, and I do not think the fabric of the game will be altered if he does.

The only scenario when that type of play would be acceptable is if Clark and Mackay where both on a wing by themselves where no one else could impact the contest and Clark saw him coming and Mackay knew Clark saw him coming.

Mackay can still bump but he faces the consequences and the point of impact highlights in no way could he win the ball and brace for contact at that speed anyway. So really we are talking about acceptable bump/brace scenarios and by them selves they can go at each other but because Mackay knew Clark did not see him he should have shown a duty of care and contested the contest without worrying about the ball on a technicality including bumping zClark at a slower pace after he picked the ball up before he effectively disposed it

 

[Matera92]

The difference with a mark is the inertia is usually in a upward motion for a mark not a head on car crash scenario like with Mackay coming with a big long run up at speed

Both are football actions. Both can lead to head trauma. Why is it that in one circumstance duty of care is required but the other isn't?

Again, no, they just need take reasonable steps to avoid injuring their opponents. Footy collisions happen, look at Todd Marshall getting concussed against Geelong. The Geelong players came across to block in a marking contest with his eyes on the ball the entire time, didn't brace for contact, just sort of got in the way. Something that happens all the time in marking contests. A normal footy action with an unlucky result.

Mackay charged in at full speed from a distance away and unintentionally smashed his shoulder into Clark's face. He had time and space to do something different to make the contest safer and he didn't, and an injury was a perfectly foreseeable outcome from charging in at that speed.

Mackay wasn't thinking "I'm going to reach this contest at exactly the same time as that guy and smash him while contesting the ball" if you'd actually played the game at any decent level you'd realise that his only thought as per his coaching and training habits would have been to get to the ball as quickly as possible and win the footy, preferably cleanly as he would then have a clear run to deliver the ball into his attacking 50m. He wasn't doing a physics calculation in his head approaching the contest comparing his mass and velocity vs that of the oncoming players.
This is why the majority of actual football players and past players are dumbfounded at this being a punishable action.

The game rewards players performance including experience not necessarily those making dumb decisions

Except in this case Clarke was showing how inexperienced he was by leaving himself open and unprotected. The experienced player protected himself and is now potentially being punished for that.

 

[pjcrows]

Yeah, I think he should, and I do not think the fabric of the game will be altered if he does.

The only scenario when that type of play would be acceptable is if Clark and Mackay where both on a wing by themselves where no one else could impact the contest and Clark saw him coming and Mackay knew Clark saw him coming

So you're saying that in a copy of this incident, but Mackay is the one who goes in slightly lower than Clark and gets his jaw broken, that Clark should be suspended?

Well, at least your idiocy is consistent.

 

[Mr Magic]

So you're saying that in a copy of this incident, but Mackay is the one who goes in slightly lower than Clark and gets his jaw broken, that Clark should be suspended?

Well, at least your idiocy is consistent.

No I am saying, whether Mackay goes high or low its irrelevant because he is initiating the force/inertia from his speed and distance he ran and he assumes the responsibility for it especially when it is obvious Clark is unaware of Mackay coming.

By the way those suggesting Mackay did not see Clark I am calling BS on that

Mackay could have hit the legs of Clark and created another injury with a bump/brace and be responsible for a separate injury due to the inertia/force he created that Clark was unaware of. He could have took Clarks knees out , ankles whatever

 

[pjcrows]

Mackay can still bump but he faces the consequences

He didn't opt to bump.

Mackay knew Clark did not see him he should have shown a duty of care

Mind-reader, is he?

 

[Alesana]

After all this I hope Clark is the one who changes the way he attacks a contest, Mackay did nothing wrong and it's exactly what I would want all players from my team to do, and continue doing so.

 

[Mr Magic]

He didn't opt to bump.



Mind-reader, is he?

Are you suggesting Mackay is blind??? He does not even need peripheral vision to see Clark from the initial distance he started his run

 

[pjcrows]

After all this I hope Clark is the one who changes the way he attacks a contest, Mackay did nothing wrong and it's exactly what I would want all players from my team to do, and continue doing so.

Clark didn't do anything wrong. It was a football collision. Because they're playing football.

 

[Mr Magic]

After all this I hope Clark is the one who changes the way he attacks a contest, Mackay did nothing wrong and it's exactly what I would want all players from my team to do, and continue doing so.

I tell you what, if I was coaching and players did that, I would drop them and say you are too dumb to play football

 

[Alesana]

No I am saying, whether Mackay goes high or low its irrelevant because he is initiating the force/inertia from his speed and distance he ran and he assumes the responsibility for it especially when it is obvious Clark is unaware of Mackay coming.

By the way those suggesting Mackay did not see Clark I am calling BS on that

Mackay could have hit the legs of Clark and created another injury with a bump/brace and be responsible for a separate injury due to the inertia/force he created that Clark was unaware of. He could have took Clarks knees out , ankles whatever

So next time Mackay should shout "Hey Clarky I'm coming from this direction just so you know buddy"

 

[Alesana]

I tell you what, if I was coaching and players did that, I would drop them and say you are too dumb to play football

Good thing you're not a bloody coach then, I wouldn't let you coach my kids. You're setting them up to get injured

 

[pjcrows]

Are you suggesting Mackay is blind??? He does not even need peripheral vision to see Clark from the initial distance he started his run

I'm not suggesting Mackay didn't see him. You said that Mackay knew that Clark didn't see him. How is Mackay responsible for his opponent's vision, or lack thereof? Should he pause time and warn him?

 

[El_Scorcho]

Both are football actions. Both can lead to head trauma. Why is it that in one circumstance duty of care is required but the other isn't?

Interesting one, maybe Houston should have been suspended. The current interpretation of the games laws allows contact above the shoulders when marking provided it's not with the arms, and they've kept it this way to preserve the speccy. Maybe that's the next frontier in the quest to lower the amount of head injuries in the game. I will say that the old hypothetical knee in the back of the head in a marking contest causing injury is a much rarer occurrence than a head high bump.

Mackay wasn't thinking "I'm going to reach this contest at exactly the same time as that guy and smash him while contesting the ball" if you'd actually played the game at any decent level you'd realise that his only thought as per his coaching and training habits would have been to get to the ball as quickly as possible and win the footy, preferably cleanly as he would then have a clear run to deliver the ball into his attacking 50m. He wasn't doing a physics calculation in his head approaching the contest comparing his mass and velocity vs that of the oncoming players.
This is why the majority of actual football players and past players are dumbfounded at this being a punishable action.

He actually was doing a physics calculation. Not on a chalkboard with numbers and formulas, but he knew where he was, where the ball was likely to be when he met it, where Clark and Berry were likely to be. Players are constantly calculating stuff like that in their heads, it happens naturally. Mackay is a very experienced footballer who knows that charging into a contest at full pace increases the likelihood of injury. He knew going in that he was going to make pretty heavy contact with Clark and did it anyway. He wasn't in enough control to avoid hitting Clark's face with his shoulder. Most of the time a player's jaw won't be broken and there's nothing for us to discuss, but this time it was broken.

If coaches expected this, players would be getting poleaxed in every game, but they aren't, because players are also coached to avoiding giving away frees. Mackay had plenty of other options in terms of how to attack the contest. There are similar loose ball contests at speed in every game. Players tackle, the corral, they run slightly wide of the contest and try to knock the footy out of their opponent's hands. They bump, but actually choose to bump and ensure it's shoulder to shoulder instead of shoulder to head. It happens all the time.

 

[Brenton Davy]

Are you suggesting Mackay is blind??? He does not even need peripheral vision to see Clark from the initial distance he started his run

Did you not hear Riewoldt and Treloar state that Mackay attacked the contest in exactly the same way they coach U17’s to do so. Mackays peers see NOTHING wrong with his actions yet you know better?

Sorry mate but you’re not reading the room on this one.

 

[El_Scorcho]

He wasn't doing a physics calculation in his head approaching the contest comparing his mass and velocity vs that of the oncoming players.

Just further to this, the reason players like Fyfe, Dusty, Pendlebury and their ilk are so much better in traffic than other players is because they're better at making these exact sort of calculations. Plenty of players are strong and quick. Being able to read the play and adjust quicker than other players is what makes you a genius in this game.

 

[pjcrows]

Interesting one, maybe Houston should have been suspended. The current interpretation of the games laws allows contact above the shoulders when marking provided it's not with the arms, and they've kept it this way to preserve the speccy. Maybe that's the next frontier in the quest to lower the amount of head injuries in the game. I will say that the old hypothetical knee in the back of the head in a marking contest causing injury is a much rarer occurrence than a head high bump.



He actually was doing a physics calculation. Not on a chalkboard with numbers and formulas, but he knew where he was, where the ball was likely to be when he met it, where Clark and Berry were likely to be. Players are constantly calculating stuff like that in their heads, it happens naturally. Mackay is a very experienced footballer who knows that charging into a contest at full pace increases the likelihood of injury. He knew going in that he was going to make pretty heavy contact with Clark and did it anyway. He wasn't in enough control to avoid hitting Clark's face with his shoulder. Most of the time a player's jaw won't be broken and there's nothing for us to discuss, but this time it was broken.

If coaches expected this, players would be getting poleaxed in every game, but they aren't, because players are also coached to avoiding giving away frees. Mackay had plenty of other options in terms of how to attack the contest. There are similar loose ball contests at speed in every game. Players tackle, the corral, they run slightly wide of the contest and try to knock the footy out of their opponent's hands. They bump, but actually choose to bump and ensure it's shoulder to shoulder instead of shoulder to head. It happens all the time.

Is it too hyperbolic to say that this post sums up why society is cooked?

 

[pjcrows]

Just further to this, the reason players like Fyfe, Dusty, Pendlebury and their ilk are so much better in traffic than other players is because they're better at making these exact sort of calculations. Plenty of players are strong and quick. Being able to read the play and adjust quicker than other players is what makes you a genius in this game.

You mean Fyfe, the bloke who has been suspended multiple times for controversial head high incidents?

 

[El_Scorcho]

Is it too hyperbolic to say that this post sums up why society is cooked?

No, given i'm going to argue that I think it's cooked that such a large proportion of the footygoing public wants to see more of this sort of collision. Gotta protect the head.

 

[Alesana]

Is it too hyperbolic to say that this post sums up why society is cooked?

It's certainly an over-analysis of a very simple incident.

 

[pjcrows]

No, given i'm going to argue that I think it's cooked that such a large proportion of the footygoing public wants to see more of this sort of collision. Gotta protect the head.

We don't want to see it. We just understand it's a part of the sport, and don't want the sport fundamentally changed. Contest for the ball is the sport. If players accidentally getting a head injury can't happen, then we may as well not have the sport.

 

[Alesana]

No, given i'm going to argue that I think it's cooked that such a large proportion of the footygoing public wants to see more of this sort of collision. Gotta protect the head.

As opposed to players squibbing contests so that their opponent doesn't come off second best?

 

[Mr Magic]

Both are football actions. Both can lead to head trauma. Why is it that in one circumstance duty of care is required but the other isn't?



Mackay wasn't thinking "I'm going to reach this contest at exactly the same time as that guy and smash him while contesting the ball" if you'd actually played the game at any decent level you'd realise that his only thought as per his coaching and training habits would have been to get to the ball as quickly as possible and win the footy, preferably cleanly as he would then have a clear run to deliver the ball into his attacking 50m. He wasn't doing a physics calculation in his head approaching the contest comparing his mass and velocity vs that of the oncoming players.
This is why the majority of actual football players and past players are dumbfounded at this being a punishable action.



Except in this case Clarke was showing how inexperienced he was by leaving himself open and unprotected. The experienced player protected himself and is now potentially being punished for that.

Experienced players do not need to do a physics calculation, they know.

I would argue Mackay's total action was not a football action in totality. People can slice and dice it to suit an agenda but there is no way he was going to win the ball taken the action he did from the initial commitment at such a distance unless he was a drugged up olympian 100 metre sprinter

 

[El_Scorcho]

You mean Fyfe, the bloke who has been suspended multiple times for controversial head high incidents?

And yet he's undeniably incredible in traffic. Maybe he's just a bit of a dirty player?

We don't want to see it. We just understand it's a part of the sport, and don't want the sport fundamentally changed. Contest for the ball is the sport. If players accidentally getting a head injury can't happen, then we may as well not have the sport.

Players accidentally get head injuries all the time in footy. Port have 2 players on the sidelines this week because of this sort of accident, one concussion and one broken jaw.

Players need to take reasonable steps to avoid hurting their opponents, which they already do in almost all circumstances. If they choose to undertake an action where a heavy collision is likely and hit someone in the head and hurt them, there needs to be consequences for that.

As opposed to players squibbing contests so that their opponent doesn't come off second best?

Actually pjcrows you're correct, society is cooked.

 

[pjcrows]

People can slice and dice it to suit an agenda

The irony!